I'm leaving My Way Out

[Colin]

Just to be clear about my comment about abstaining. What I like about taking taking Baclofen longterm is that I know I won't be able to "never take a drink again". I have gone really, really long amounts of time without have a sip, only to have one beer and then just be crushed by it. What I see with BAC is that folks occasionally have a drink and the craving isn't triggered.

Now, let me tell you about my experience. I have lowered my dosage too low to experience this phenomenon on a consistent basis. I go without AL for just long enough to think I'm not going to drink again. Ever. So I start to lower the dose of baclofen because I have a nasty side effect of nerve pain in my legs on higher doses of Bac. I then end up triggered by something where I have a drink. I end up back in the cycle.

Now here's what else I'll say. I'm still here. I'm still on Baclofen. And even when I do drink now and get into a cycle, I pull myself out and start over. Before the Baclofen, I would disappear into years of drinking and shame and guilt. That doesn't happen anymore. I just put on my big girl panties and start upping the dosage until I lose the craving and then I just plug along. I have also added Gabapentin to the mix to try and counter the nerve pain which works to a degree.

I am not someone who is trying to use baclofen to "drink in moderation". I also know that even when I really get it into my head that I'm never going to drink again, I alway fucking to it!!! Damn it to hell. I did it after being in AA for 9 years. Argh. I'd have like 30 years of sobriety right now if it weren't for that one beer (ha!).

So that's me. That's why I'll be on this damn drug until something better comes along that can help my sorry ass. Because I'm a drunk. I like to drink. Like Lex so eloquently wrote above "Some days I wonder why I bother maintaining any discipline whatsoever (be it sobriety, diet, exercise, meditation, positivity). What, after all, is the point of it all? Other days I'm ok with it." On those days where I just don't see the point and I cave and take a drink, I don't want that to define me. I want that to be an "Oh well. That didn't really help either." So the next day I can make a different choice rather than blow my brains out. Ya know?

So you can correlate decreased baclofen use with decreased nerve pain! I??m very interested. I??ll try tomorrow by delaying my first dose of baclofen until after my morning exercises. I??ve been drinking moderately for the last three years and am not afraid of the risk of relapsing.

Like yourself I find that gabapentin helps. Amitriptylene also helps but not to the same extent, however it is not such as good an antidepressant as citalopram so I??m considering going back to citalopram.

It??s quite a juggling act but it seems to be possible.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I know this is old news. I know I shouldn't bring it up. But it still irks me. It makes me feel badly that Spirit was spreading lies about me. It makes me feel badly that I reacted and had something to say about another member here who really didn't need to be involved. And now that this thread has been revisited I want to make clear two things. Not only did I NOT say anything hurtful to the person, I sought her out afterwards and apologized for dragging her into a brawl that had nothing to do with her.



So who is the asshole here? I was, for a minute, and unlike a lot of my reactions to Spirit, I felt/feel badly about it. I totally would not bring this up if this thread was dead. But now? Maybe it's my ego. I can't let it rest. And this thread has a lot of good things to offer, too.

You have now made hurtful comments towards one of my true friends on MWO and this does upset me as it should many others on MWO who know LB. You have now intentionally written harmful, unnecessary, and untrue words towards a person that you do not even know. You have now shown your true colors for all to read and better understand just exactly who you really are and what your real motives are.

I sure did show my true colors and so did you, because that's made up bulloney. Because Spiritfree is a malicious pathological liar. To be clear, this is what I wrote:

You commented about/to this person:

"I was very amused that on the other thread, Little beagle, a newbie who is not taking meds, and is simply looking for solutions for her husband, posted that she thought his posts were helpful. I'd love to know how and why she thinks that. Seriously. His last post (I looked), the one she was responding to, was about enzymes in rats. That's just funny, don't you think?"

And here was the apology I wrote to little beagle, publicly on a thread where I knew she would see it, for dragging her into it:

https://www.mywayout.org/community/monthly-abstinence/83208-ladies-mission-official-site-post1637250.html#post1637250

I won't overwhelm this thread with the whole interaction, because you can click on it. (EDIT: I changed my mind. Here's part of the post I wrote.)

Hiya, folks. Forgive my intrusion!



I just wanted to stop by where I think little beagle is most likely to see this. I made some assumptions about you, responding in a different thread to one of your comments in a thread on the medications section of the forum.



I didn't say anything mean, or disparaging, just assumed you were a newbie and that you were looking for answers for your husband, not for yourself. Which is really irrelevant, because I believe anyone looking for answers to combat this disease should be welcome regardless. Silly of me. In fact, the whole post was silly of me, and I would like to think it was out of character. Not that I don't lose my temper, but certainly not lashing out where it isn't deserved when I have no idea what I'm talking about. I apologize if you took offense. Please know that I didn't mean any offense, and feel badly about my comment.

And then there's the following comment. I took one of the comments made about me by Lex onto my own thread, so as not to bog this one down. But damn if reading this whole thread didn't make me angry all over again.

dundrinkn- sorry didn't mean to offend you. Obviously I know it is hard to quit drinking. I'm six months sober and doing alright but I'm not an AA guy. I just don't understand why folks continue to take baclofen when to all outward appearances it simply does not work for them. That's all. Peace.

What about if it worked once and then stopped working because I stopped taking enough of it? Does that mean it doesn't work? Or am I a knucklehead for not taking enough of it? Should I give up, do you think?



Taking baclofen worked for me for 3 years and 11 months. Over the course of that last year, I titrated down from ~220mg to ~80mg. I relapsed after about 6 months at 80mg.



Should I assume that baclofen doesn't work and give up? Or better yet, maybe I should assume that there is something morally or spiritually wrong with me? I mean, baclofen works for other people when they take 80mg.



Or maybe, just maybe, I should slowly but surely take more baclofen?



What do you think, Lex?



By the way, the other person you and Spiritfree harassed about continuing to drink while taking baclofen (lostinspace) is now sober. No thanks to your support, I suppose.



While you and dundrinkin may have come to terms, I'm not sure I'm there yet. And yep. I'm being a petty bitch. Sorry to everyone else. When I read back over this whole thread I got mad. I'll probably regret it at some point. Whatever.

[Spiritfree]

NE -you have got to let this crap go. Get on with positive things that help you become sober and happy. Just dang NE, please try to move forward and let go of the anger and resentments. Alcohol is your one and only opponent right now -not other people or other 'things'. Right now, alcohol needs you to be angry or upset with me and/or others in order to survive and be with you. Please, continue to dislike me or whatever else it takes, but just help your self to be free and content -get rid of the Firewater and get your life back (or create an even better life).

[Ne/Neva Eva]

NE -you have got to let this crap go. Get on with positive things that help you become sober and happy. Just dang NE, please try to move forward and let go of the anger and resentments. Alcohol is your one and only opponent right now -not other people or other 'things'. Right now, alcohol needs you to be angry or upset with me and/or others in order to survive and be with you. Please, continue to dislike me or whatever else it takes, but just help your self to be free and content -get rid of the Firewater and get your life back (or create an even better life).

Lol. I'm about as likely to take advice from you--about anything--as I am a cold, clear, devil that shows up on my doorstep.

https://www.mywayout.org/community/medication-research-and-support/92331-please-wary.html

Spiritfree is a malicious pathological liar.

https://www.mywayout.org/community/medication-research-and-support/91807-im-leaving-post1658307.html#post1658307

Hi Skinned Knees and Brett. I know you're not really going to understand or appreciate a part of this post, but it needs to be said.



...



Please, both of you, be wary of anything that Spiritfree posts. We know him to be both malicious and a pathological liar. (Please see this post: https://www.mywayout.org/community/me...ml#post1656050 and this post: https://www.mywayout.org/community/me...ml#post1657560)



I know he seems harmless, at least on this thread, but he's not. Be aware and wary. That's all I'm saying.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

In order to really understand how malicious, and pathological, Spirit's lies are, you are going to have to look back a little bit.

Please see this post: https://www.mywayout.org/community/me...ml#post1656050

and this post: https://www.mywayout.org/community/me...ml#post1657560

There's a hell of a lot more if you have the time. Just look at Spiritwolf333's old posts.

[Spiritfree]

dundrinkn-

I don't chime in much because I don't believe I have much to add to the various discussions. I couldn't keep taking baclofen due to the side effects it caused in me. Fortunately, thus far (284 days- not much) I have been able to maintain sobriety without baclofen, but it is strictly one day at a time for me and not all days are easy. Some days I wonder why I bother maintaining any discipline whatsoever (be it sobriety, diet, exercise, meditation, positivity). What, after all, is the point of it all? Other days I'm ok with it.

I have no special feelings for SF, but I do tend to rally to the side of the underdog, and until just yesterday I had been perceiving SF as the underdog. But SF's most recent comments do make me question his bona fides.

Finally, I must admit I could not stop myself from responding to SF's comment yesterday about heavy alcohol use amongst 5 +/- year baclofen users, despite my recent misgivings about the author. I am trying to change myself into the type of person who can resist temptations of this sort, but I remain a work in progress.

May we all have a happy, peaceful Sunday!

Nicely said LEX.
LEX, as I think that you already know, I take Baclofen and it has done wonders for me. Early on in my beginnings with Baclofen and MyWayOut, I became friends with several people on this forum who are no longer participants. Baclofen did not work for them and they posted their opinions relative thereto and were soon belittled into leaving. This has happened time and time again on this section of the forum; Baclofen does not work for someone, they share a negative comment about Baclofen and then the hammer is laid upon their head -especially if they are not in the 'group'. I still speak/communicate with these folks to this day and several have found solutions outside of Baclofen -others are still down and almost out. When I speak by phone to some of these former members, some ask me why I continue to "waste" my time on such a "silly" forum where I am under the gun all of the time. My typical answer is that I do not consider it a "silly" or "time wasting" forum, but instead, consider it a place where I can pass on information that I find that might just help at least one person.

Lex, if there is one thing that I have learned (which does not mean a whole lot), it is this; placating and being the 'nice' person with addicts 'all' of the time usually causes much more harm than good to both the addict and the one trying to help (personal experiences for many years with many different addicts -including myself). This does not have to mean that you have to be rude or unkind, but you do have to speak your truth, otherwise, everyone loses. Too much being 'nice' and 'cuddling up to' -KILLS the addict/AUD person - and this is a known fact.

(One other thought; I have been in the room when an addict literally dies from their addiction (on three occasions unfortunately). At this point in time, they are usually no longer speaking of their anger that they had up until the point to when they realized they were about to die; instead, they are typically only asking 'why me' and what they could have done differently. Often times, after the addict soon DIES, those left behind end up asking themselves "what could I have done differently" to have helped.

[Baclofenman]

NE -you have got to let this crap go. Get on with positive things that help you become sober and happy. Just dang NE, please try to move forward and let go of the anger and resentments. Alcohol is your one and only opponent right now -not other people or other 'things'. Right now, alcohol needs you to be angry or upset with me and/or others in order to survive and be with you. Please, continue to dislike me or whatever else it takes, but just help your self to be free and content -get rid of the Firewater and get your life back (or create an even better life).

God how patronising and belittling can you stoop - I really thought I was the most patronising person on the planet but clearly I was mistaken

Sick



Bacman

[Baclofenman]

Please direct me to the posts to these people you know - I would be interested to read them...

Thanks


Bacman

Nicely said LEX.
LEX, as I think that you already know, I take Baclofen and it has done wonders for me. Early on in my beginnings with Baclofen and MyWayOut, I became friends with several people on this forum who are no longer participants. Baclofen did not work for them and they posted their opinions relative thereto and were soon belittled into leaving. This has happened time and time again on this section of the forum; Baclofen does not work for someone, they share a negative comment about Baclofen and then the hammer is laid upon their head -especially if they are not in the 'group'. I still speak/communicate with these folks to this day and several have found solutions outside of Baclofen -others are still down and almost out. When I speak by phone to some of these former members, some ask me why I continue to "waste" my time on such a "silly" forum where I am under the gun all of the time. My typical answer is that I do not consider it a "silly" or "time wasting" forum, but instead, consider it a place where I can pass on information that I find that might just help at least one person.

Lex, if there is one thing that I have learned (which does not mean a whole lot), it is this; placating and being the 'nice' person with addicts 'all' of the time usually causes much more harm than good to both the addict and the one trying to help (personal experiences for many years with many different addicts -including myself). This does not have to mean that you have to be rude or unkind, but you do have to speak your truth, otherwise, everyone loses. Too much being 'nice' and 'cuddling up to' -KILLS the addict/AUD person - and this is a known fact.

[Spiritfree]

NE -you have got to let this crap go. Get on with positive things that help you become sober and happy. Just dang NE, please try to move forward and let go of the anger and resentments. Alcohol is your one and only opponent right now -not other people or other 'things'. Right now, alcohol needs you to be angry or upset with me and/or others in order to survive and be with you. Please, continue to dislike me or whatever else it takes, but just help your self to be free and content -get rid of the Firewater and get your life back (or create an even better life).

..

[Spiritfree]

Please direct me to the posts to these people you know - I would be interested to read them...
Thanks
Bacman

Hi Sir:
You might first begin by reading your own post and it may lead you to my posts (and Sir, do not let the alcohol take you out of here as it has done to so many others -please!)

Quote from a recent Baclofenman post:
(https://www.mywayout.org/community/me...ml#post1658311)

"ITS IN YOUR HEAD YOU FUCKING MORON - And it Baclofenman or Sir to you sonny
Oh and yes you will have seen my melt down thread last night and yes I am a depresive - But when I am not depressed I can be a right cunt when pressed
Regards (only because I am a polite Englishman)
Sir"

[Spiritfree]

NE -you have got to let this crap go. Get on with positive things that help you become sober and happy. Just dang NE, please try to move forward and let go of the anger and resentments. Alcohol is your one and only opponent right now -not other people or other 'things'. Right now, alcohol needs you to be angry or upset with me and/or others in order to survive and be with you. Please, continue to dislike me or whatever else it takes, but just help your self to be free and content -get rid of the Firewater and get your life back (or create an even better life).

[lex]

[QUOTE=Ne/Neva Eva;1658307]
What do you think, Lex?

Well NE, since you asked, here is what I think:

You have a big ego. Like me. In your case (like mine did for so many decades), it is getting in the way of resolving your drinking problem. If you could look at it objectively, you would see that you should:

FIRST, decide for once and for all whether you have a drinking problem worthy of your diligent and arduous exploration.

If not: stop dwelling on it and simply keep rolling as you are now rolling.

But if so:

SECOND:

Plan A: Quit drinking immediately, just for 180 days. During this time period, play around with your baclofen dose. This should be a sufficient time period for you to stabilize your baclofen dose. After 180 days, you can reintroduce alcohol, if you wish, and see if and how it works for you.

Plan B: If you cannot quit drinking immediately, go to AA and see if that will help you go sober for 180 days. Then, repeat Plan A.

Plan C: If AA doesn't get you sober, enter a rehab for a few weeks and see if that works. Then, repeat Plan A.

lex

[dundrinkn]

So you can correlate decreased baclofen use with decreased nerve pain! I??m very interested. I??ll try tomorrow by delaying my first dose of baclofen until after my morning exercises. I??ve been drinking moderately for the last three years and am not afraid of the risk of relapsing.



Like yourself I find that gabapentin helps. Amitriptylene also helps but not to the same extent, however it is not such as good an antidepressant as citalopram so I??m considering going back to citalopram.



It??s quite a juggling act but it seems to be possible.

Colin,

My nerve pain decreases dramatically when I'm under 70 mg. and goes up dramatically over 120mg. I still have some pain at 70, but not much. I haven't ever gone completely off Baclofen to "confirm" that is the cause. I usually end up drinking too much and get spooked and start back up. Let me know about your experiment.



Stuck also has had a similar experience with Baclofen and the leg pain was part of why he quit. However, if I remember correctly the pain didn't completely subside once he got off Baclofen.



In the past you mentioned that you thought your pain was alcohol neuropathy. I'm not certain that mine is not. But the onset of the pain coincided with my starting baclofen. Here's the other thing, when I drink the pain goes away no matter how much Baclofen I'm taking. So what does that mean? Hmmm.

[Spiritfree]

Colin,
In the past you mentioned that you thought your pain was alcohol neuropathy. I'm not certain that mine is not. But the onset of the pain coincided with my starting baclofen. Here's the other thing, when I drink the pain goes away no matter how much Baclofen I'm taking. So what does that mean? Hmmm.

This is a great question. Does the pain come back once the alcohol is out of your system? Thanks for posting.

[Baclofenman]

Lex

This does not link to the post you have quoted

Regards

Bacman

[QUOTE=lex;1658326]

What do you think, Lex?

Well NE, since you asked, here is what I think:

You have a big ego. Like me. In your case (like mine did for so many decades), it is getting in the way of resolving your drinking problem. If you could look at it objectively, you would see that you should:

FIRST, decide for once and for all whether you have a drinking problem worthy of your diligent and arduous exploration.

If not: stop dwelling on it and simply keep rolling as you are now rolling.

But if so:

SECOND:

Plan A: Quit drinking immediately, just for 180 days. During this time period, play around with your baclofen dose. This should be a sufficient time period for you to stabilize your baclofen dose. After 180 days, you can reintroduce alcohol, if you wish, and see if and how it works for you.

Plan B: If you cannot quit drinking immediately, go to AA and see if that will help you go sober for 180 days. Then, repeat Plan A.

Plan C: If AA doesn't get you sober, enter a rehab for a few weeks and see if that works. Then, repeat Plan A.

lex