TerryK celebrates 5 years of sobriety and indifference to alcohol thanks to baclofen

[terryk]

5 years for me today....doesn't really seem like a big deal - I don't count days and it doesn't take any effort - but that's not to say that the trip to get here wasn't a rough one - I had severe side-effects and a difficult seven month long titration (see below). I'm currently at 160mg/day down from 280mg/day on 9/26/10 (240-220mg/day in all of 2011, 200mg/day in 2012 and 2013, 180mg/day in 2014).

After all of that time, no "other shoe has dropped" - my kidney function/blood work is fine, I'm still sharp and sane, and my indifference is solid despite the couple of beers I have occasionally. I am side-effect free.

I don't like to give advice on how to take Baclofen, but if I were to hazard a guess as to the longevity of my success I would say that staying at/near my switch dose for so long, and titrating down very slowly might be the key.

I don't post here much anymore for the same reason that many people are talking about leaving. I still pop in to offer evidence-based information when it's needed and to try and help people out of a jam when I can, but I no longer have the time or energy to combat the idiocy and abuse that's been dragging the Meds section down for the last 2.5 years - I've got much better things to do. I have a great life with a great person who stuck with me through this whole mess. I'm healthier than I've ever been, I've been lucky enough to get to travel and do outdoorsy stuff in a few far off (for me) places, and my job keeps me busier than I'd sometimes like to be. Now that I've cured my alcoholism, the vast majority of thoughts about alcohol that enter my head come from reading posts on this site (not that it's a problem). And as much as I like to be helpful and help people, I don't know that that can be accomplished here anymore, so maybe it's time to move on.

-tk

[terryk]

Last Year: Still here. Still sober*. Still healthy, sane, and sharp. The only thing that has changed is my dose, down to 180mg/day (for about 10 months now) from 280mg/day on 9/26/10. Here's a shout out to friends old and new who've helped me along the way: Ne, Redhead77, bleep, serenity, Redthread12, StuckInLA, Dr. Levin, Cinders, craving, ZenStyle, Tiptronic, beatle, Slippery Pete, Neophyte, and to Olivier and lo0p (wherever you are).

* I have a couple of beers every couple of weeks - but I haven't been drunk in over 1400 days (so the app on my phone tells me - I've never had the need to count the days)..

-tk

EDIT: Thanks everybody for the kind words!

Also, I went back and corrected the links in the next post, and here's some links to some of my favorite posts over the years:

The Safety of High-Dose Baclofen

What to do if you are running out of Baclofen

Baclofen and Beyond - June 6 2014

Phenylethylamine-like properties of baclofen (Baclofen/Mania/Bipolar/Schizophrenia).

Baclofen Potency

Thoughts on Baclofen's anti-craving mechanism

[terryk]

Two years ago, from https://www.mywayout.org/community/fo...s-to-baclofen

Today marks 3 years since I found indifference to alcohol with high-dose baclofen.

My dose has been stable at 200mg/day for the pretty much the past two years. At this level I experience no cravings and zero side-effects.

I'm still here and I'm happy, healthy, sane, and sober.

As I've done for the duration of my indifference, I have a beer or two occasionally - every few weeks (maybe even a couple of days in a row around the year-end holidays). During those instances, I experience no pleasurable effects or further desire to get drunk (or ability to drink to excess even if I try and "test" myself), nor any cravings returning the next day. I'm not condoning moderation, and I do not want to give anyone the impression that baclofen is a pathway to it.

I said "sober" because I haven't been drunk (literally or legally) in 3 years*. That might not fit your definition of sober, but that's the way I see it for me. And it's how I know that baclofen works. Alcohol is such a non-issue in my life: it's not on the radar - as a reward, or a threat. I have a hard time remembering how it fit so completely in my life before, and I'm continually amazed when I realize that I've gone on with my life for days (or weeks) and not even remembered to think about it, let alone miss it. This isn't spontaneous remission - baclofen simply makes the booze not fit anymore.

* Shortly after finding indifference, I tested it with Ameisen's "drink a bottle of scotch and see if cravings return in the morning" - I passed/they didn't/obviously I was ostensibly drunk here (though it didn't feel like it).

I find that 200-220mg/day is my magic number - any lower and I start having "drunk dreams," though no real cravings and even at that lower dosage I find drinking completely unenjoyable. But the mental game is no fun and I'd rather this whole business be effortless, which lucky for me it is at the proper dosage. In the interest of taking the smallest dose that remains effective, and hoping that my (alcohol damaged) brain may be healing, I will continually attempt to reduce my dose in the future.

I can titrate down comfortably ~10mg/week. Any faster than that and I experience some anxiety and depression. Much faster than that (like when I dropped 40mg in 2 weeks) and I invite panic attacks towards the end of week 2.

It's been a tough year with the passing of Olivier Ameisen and the licensing action against Dr. Levin. I feel as though I owe both men for saving my life: Ameisen through his original discovery and the few emails I shared with him, and Levin for returning my calls from the hospital I was admitted to for overdosing on baclofen with guidance that eventually enabled me to find indifference.

Thanks for reading and thanks to the usual suspects who helped me along the way. I'm always around and I'll certainly be here in another 365 to tell you how year 4 went.

-tk


Three years ago, from https://www.mywayout.org/community/fo...se-of-baclofen (9/26/12):

22 years ago - I started drinking in college.

16 years ago - I was drinking most nights, and probably pretty heavily on the weekends. It never got in the way of my life, my job, or anything really. I could stop if I really wanted to, with maybe a sweaty, sleepless night or two. I took a couple of weeks off here and there only when I had to.

10 years ago - I was drinking pretty heavily every night, and getting shitfaced on the weekends. I powered through my daily hangovers with aplomb. I could always wait until after work, or even after the gym, to start drinking, but absolutely, I needed at least 5 or 6 to fall asleep. I was concerned, but I wasn't able to cut back.

6 years ago - I could barely wait to get home from work to start drinking. I planned my days around where I could get alcohol. I carried a hip flask. I hid bottles in my house. I hid my drinking from my girlfriend. I considered a six-pack of pounders (8 US units) a sober night for me on weekdays, then I would get completely obliterated Friday and Saturday (and then Sunday) hoping to be able to taper back down to my 6 (8) beers a night maybe by Wednesday with Friday just around the corner. If I wasn't drunk enough when I went to bed, I would wake up after a few hours without being able to fall back asleep. I started drinking in the middle of the night. I started drinking in the morning. All efforts to cut back failed over and over.

4 years ago - My life was completely unraveling. I would wake up sometimes with a dry heaving, retching sickness that I could only stop with a couple of shots of liquor. I missed work. I snuck drinks on the job. I obtained some benzos to stave off my withdrawal during the day and wound up propelling my drinking to the stratosphere. I switched to the cheapest vodka. I sometimes drank mouthwash. My health was failing (Liver Panel, Gout, Blood Pressure). I felt like I was dying. I wanted to die. I went to the ER a handful of times; Outpatient detox twice, and inpatient detox twice.

3 years ago - I got home from my 2nd inhouse detox and white-knuckled for the next 5 months without alcohol. Everyday seemed like a waste - I was miserable, and I made everyone else miserable.

2 years, 7 months ago - After reading "The End of My Addiction," I started self medicating with baclofen that I purchased online, soon after from a local psychiatrist.

2 years, 4 months ago - I was hospitalized while trying to titrate too quickly on baclofen. 150mg/day to 235+mg/day.I talk a little about it here

2 years ago - I reached my "switch" - indifference to alcohol @ 280mg/day

1 year ago- https://www.mywayout.org/community/fo...ks-to-baclofen

Today - Still cured of my alcoholism! Completely indifferent!

I've been high dose baclofen consistently for over 2 1/2 years, currently taking 200mg/day (I was at 280 for about 6 months, then dropped to 220, was at 240 for more than a year, and then recently dropped to 200).

Though I had severe side-effects throughout my titration (even continuing for a few months after my switch) I am 100% side-effect free today.

I occasionally have a beer or two (every couple of weeks or so). Except for the time I tried Amesien's "drink a bottle of whisky on baclofen and see if you have cravings the next day" experiment (I passed with flying colors) I haven't been drunk in 2 years (BAC or otherwise), as it is, baclofen makes drinking more than a couple pretty unpleasant for me.

I'm happy, healthy, sane, and as sharp as ever.

-tk

[terryk]

Four years ago, from al-baclofen-and-other-medications/51291-terryk-celebrates-1-year-of-sobriety-and-indifference-to-alcohol-thanks-to-baclofen">https://www.mywayout.org/community/fo...ofen(9/26/11):

It's been 365 days since I reached my "switch," indifference to alcohol at 280mg/day baclofen. I'll try and keep this short and sweet....

Some background: I'm in my 40's I drank heavily for 20 years, just about every night for the first 15, and more often during the days, then 24/7 towards the end. Typical week night for me was 8 beers and almost a pint of scotch, weekends were no holds barred.

In my late thirties I had 4 trips to the ER, 2 outpatient detoxes (lorazepam), and 2 inpatient detoxes (phenobarbital). Attempts at moderation invariably put me in the exact place I left off in a month or less. CBT, SSRI's, counseling, did zero. AA was a profoundly poor fit for me as well (to put it mildly). I did try Moderation Management online, and had no luck finding Rational Recovery.

I heard about, then read Ameisen's book in early 2010. I stumbled upon MWO soon after. I began titrating in March 2010 with Fexobac baclofen ordered online from India, 4rx.com. I was also extremely lucky to find a psychiatrist who began writing me a legit script in late spring 2010.

Post "switch," my indifference has been effortless. My titration, however, was *definitely* not. I had very, very severe side-effects and wound up restrained in the ER and hospitalized for 5 days when I tried to increase my dose too high, too soon (recounted here). Increasing 20mg/week was too rapid for me and I settled closer to 10mg/week, and even then, day 2 after the increase was always a doozy, with intense hallucinations and shocks to my hands/fingers. All in all, it took 7 months of slow, steady titration for me to find indifference @280mg/day.

I am very happy to report that today I am indifferent *and* side-effect free on high-dose baclofen (currently 220mg/day). I have been taking baclofen continuously for 19 months.

My simple answer to overcoming side-effects is 1)slow, consistent titration 2)even dosing on an even schedule 60/60/60/60 at 6am/12pm/6pm/12am 3)consistency in brand of baclofen - don't interchange brands day to day and if you need to switch brands do it this way: (100% Brand A to 75% Brand A + 25% Brand B to 50% Brand A + 50% Brand B to 25% Brand A + 75% Brand B to 100% Brand B ).

I've had a beer or 2 (or 3) a few times and that probably doesn't fit many people's definition of sobriety, but I know that baclofen has cured my alcohol addiction. I don't think about drinking, I don't remember about drinking, when I try and make a plan to drink a beer to enjoy the taste of it, I always forget it. I don't like to have more than 1 or 2, I don't like the feeling (it doesn't get me buzzed or drunk anymore) and I don't like how I feel in the morning. I don't have any of the cravings that made me feel like every night I was missing out because I couldn't drink a beer. I don't know if it will last forever, and maybe it's a slippery slope, but that's the way it is, and I feel confident, sane, and sharp as ever. Thank you Dr. Olivier Ameisen for making this journey possible, and Dr. Levin, Ne/Neva Eva, RedHead77, Lo0p, Cinders, craving, ZenStyle, beatle, ignominious, XXXXX, bleep, _serenity_, moglor, guardian, birdy02, Otter, and anyone I've left out, for helping me along the way.

-tk

[Lostinspace]

Congratulations, tk!! That's so awesome. I appreciate your including your yearly updates, as well as your drinking history, so that we can see how far you've come. It's very inspiring to read. So thank you

[Spiritfree]

TK -thank you for reporting your success. This is exactly the type of information that can truly help others. It is extremely important that you report the difficulty in initially taking Baclofen and the potential fatal harm that it can bring if you are on a particular 'fast' titration schedule. (I titrated up 20 mg every 4th day until I reached 180mg and never had any problems other than extreme somnolence.) I was under the supervision of a doctor during my entire titration process. Perhaps the differences in dosing and schduling is why the NIH and others are still trying to create new formulas -similar to baclofen that produce the final end result.



The greatest and most important point -imo- that you bring up is the fact that one can possibly reach a point where alcohol becomes almost entirely meaningless and and really interferes with one's new alcohol free life.



--sf--

[kronkcarr]

Thanks for posting your experience and success. Congratulations!!!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

As always, you inspire me to be a better participant and a better person. I know that probably makes you cringe. But whatever. I still adore you.

Thank you.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

5 years and still going

[Mom21961]

Terryk,



Thank you for posting these updates. They are very encouraging for those of us still titrating up. Thanks also for including the prior years on the thread. You've answered the questions that I always have when someone has reached indifference: amount of drinking pre Bac, length of time drinking, titration schedule, switch dose, maintenance dose, etc. Great information.



:thanks:



Mom2JTx3

[bleep]

Fucking magic TK. I also don't enjoy this place for the reasons you mention, but I'm glad I passed through and saw this.

All the best mate.

[Federico]

Hi Terryk, 5 years of indifference thats great! Give me five, I'am 6 years indifference.



Greetings, Federico Germany

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Congratulations, Federico! Nice to see you here.

We're starting a new forum dedicated to the treatment of addiction with medications. I hope you'll check back and see what's new in about 3 weeks.

Hope you're well! Take good care!

[kittyglitr]

Just started to stop drinking and need help

Hello,



I have been drinking about 2 bottles of wine per night sometimes more on the weekend for several years. I have been on and off of topamax because it worked for me for a few years even though I still drank but then it wore off. I was up to 300mg a day.

Anyway, I finally got tired of getting drunk on the weekend and decided to stop drinking which I never thought I could ever do because I never really had a reason to, and I loved to drink every day to de-stress. So...I have Baclofen but never knew it could work so well. Today I was so irritable and thought.."oh yeah, I have baclofen...I'll try that again.

My question is...will it really help my irritability? I am so grouchy right now...it's only been 3 days and I need help to keep going. I have not stopped like this ever before for as long as I can remember...like a good 10 years or so ago to do a lemonade cleanse. I really want to keep this up. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[terryk]

Hi kittyglitr-

If you follow my story above, you can see that I was abstaining for 5 months before I started Baclofen. At that point, even though I had moved well beyond the physical throes of addiction, the mental cravings I experienced made my life unbearable without alcohol. Time heals all wounds they say, and for some people, the obsessive thoughts that spawn relapses and drive addiction fade away with patience and practice. For some other people, not so much. In the end, Baclofen cured my alcoholism but it was a difficult process that I'm not quick to foist on everybody that happens by, despite it's rather miraculous results for me.

Taking this medication is a big commitment, and one not to be taken lightly. That said, of all the drugs available to treat AUD, it probably has the highest efficacy by far especially among severe cases. It's always best to seek professional medical guidance, although when you are running out of options (like I was), desperate times may call for desperate measures. Please feel free to continue to ask any questions - there are quite a few folks here with succesful baclofen stories - and some of us have been working on a new forum to focus specifically on using medications (especially Baclofen) to treat addiction - so stay tuned. Hope this helps, and good luck in your recovery.

-tk

EDIT: Here is the Prescribing guide for baclofen in the treatment of alcoholism - a must read for anyone who is interested in using Baclofen to treat their alcoholism.