Baclofen advice required

[Danathos]

Hi all, new here and getting used to how this forum works so please bear with me.
I started Baclofen a couple of months ago and have been steadily building up the dose. I'm taking 30mg 4x a day for a total of 120mg p/day. I've yet to hit this 'switch' I keep hearing of, or see any drastic reduction in my anxiety (which was what drove me to drink) but I know many people have to go much higher before they find the switch. Problem is, the side effects are kicking my arse, the dizziness I can deal with but when trying to sleep Iget tingling, electrical feelings predominantly in my arms which drive one insane. So to sum up as a result I'm wavering. I want to keep up this treatment as I feels like my last hope. Any advice, tips or encouragement appreciated. Thanks.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Hi Danathos. Welcome to the forum.

I didn't start to see any real difference or improvement until I reached about 140mg of baclofen. Then the higher I went, the less I drank, except on some occasions when I would, for whatever reason, drink like a fish for a day or two.

Drinking probably makes the side effects worse, btw. I wouldn't swear to that, it's not official or anything, but it makes sense. Drinking makes everything worse, in general! Ha!

It took a while, but I actually got used to the zaps in my arms, then that side effect went away. It still occasionally happens, but I don't find it alarming anymore. The SEs are dose dependent, so going up or down a little bit may change how you're reacting to it.

Are you taking the same amount on a regular schedule?

It was absolutely worth it to me to stick it out, and I had a pretty harrowing time of it in the beginning. Still, it's worth almost anything to be free of the need for booze. At least to me.

Hang in there!

[Danathos]

Thanks ne, I generally take the first does around 9am then the next every 4-6 hours after and so on. I do think the booze may well make it worse, and it tends to be less difficult the more exhausted I am. Eg after no sleep and a day at university the other week I slept like a log after 2 bOttles of wine . thank you your post encouraged me to remain at 120mg rather than reduce. I'm also receiving 60mg/ day of the bac for free as my docs are trying it for alcohol too but won't try it in the big doses we seem to need. I also spoke to some guy called Phillip Thomas who claims to be a baclofen expert, however I didn't trust him. He claimed he knew Olivier Ameisen and that Ameisen smoked like a chimney, contributing to his death, however there are entire paragraphs in the end of my addiction where Ameisen talks about how odd it was that as an alcoholic he never smoked…

[dundrinkn]

Hi Danathos. Welcome! I have the zaps on occasion, but like Ne, they mostly go away once I stay at that dose for a while. Sometimes they come back if I go up or down in dosage. If an SE is really annoying, you can try going up or down just 10mg. That can shift everything in terms of SEs. It just might take a few days to feel the effect.

I also agree that drinking makes SEs worse. Do you find you're drinking less on Bac? What have you noticed in terms of changes?

[Danathos]

Hi dun,
I tried dropping the dosage by 30 mg yesterday but it didn't really make too much difference come bed time. I'm hoping that this stuff will eventually just pass

I havent noticed massive changes myself, though my GF claims i'm better than I was before I started taking it. Though I tend to find it a *little* easier to get out and about than I did before starting it. I have noticed that if I take one when I've just woke up if I try dozing again sometimes it feels a bit like i've taken a vallium but mostly the feelings at the moment are subtle

[Danathos]

Ne may I ask about your experience with Phillip Thomas? I am rather suspicious of him and I've not seen much on here (I found him before coming here) to ease my suspicions of him.

[neophyte]

hi Danathos,

I got up to 300mg to reach indifference, it went like this for me, 0-100mg very little side effects, 100-200mg somnolence insomnia, 200-300mg was the same but worse.

I didnt actually start drinking less until near the switch, i actually drank more initially, this is common because people will try to drink more to achieve the euphoria baclofen takes away.

after being on 300mg for 2-3 months, side effects went away almost completely, im on 225mg at the moment. looking to go to 200mg soon

[Danathos]

it's bloody hard isn't it? holding to faith that it's going to work when you're working up to high doses but it still doesnt seem to be doing it yet?

[Mom21961]

It is hard sometimes, but I will go back and read Dr. Ameisen's book, and the various studies that show that it does work, and that helps me keep moving in the right direction. When I reached 180 mg, I noticed a significant decrease in cravings, although I had some high stress times that threw me back in the pit. Some severe side effects showed up around that time too. I now have to go up VERY slowly to keep the SEs under control. Just 5mg every 3 to 5 days. However my consumption is drastically reduced, and it's the only thing that has given me hope for a very long time. Hang in there. It seems like the longer you drank and the amount you drank has a correlation to your switch dose, so I probably have a ways to go . We'll get there though!

[dundrinkn]

Hey Danathos,
Noticed you said you dropped 30mg in a day. That seems like a big dosage change for one day. Most people go up or down 5 to 10 mg at a time. Intervals range from somewhere around 3 days to much longer.

[Danathos]

Yeah it was a fairly big drop in a day I guess. I've continued on my usual 120mg today, though the physical discomfort is starting to set in around now (00:45am here)

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Morning (here in Virginia) Danathos!



Where are you, by the way? You don't have to be specific, it's just good to know timezones and such.



30 mg in one day is WAY too much, my friend. Slow and steady wins this race. How long have you been at 120? And when you increase, how much do you increase by?



It is bloody hard to trust in something that seems so improbable, but it really does work. Have you read the study by deBeaurepaire about following 100 patients for 2 years? I'll link it if someone else doesn't. (Here's the abstract, but the full paper is here somewhere. Suppression of alcohol dependence using baclofen: a 2-year observational study of 100 patients. - PubMed - NCBI)



I can't speak to Phillip Thomas. It's been years since I've spoken with him. My take on Dr. Ameisen's death is that, well, people die. (I had a 38 year old friend who had a massive heart attack on Valentine's Day, sitting across from his wife who was a cardiologist. He was dead before he hit the floor. It was my first real brush with, "Oh my God! It really does happen randomly! Eek!" And also, the universe really does have a messed up sense of humor. Don't you think?)



I like to think that before Dr. Ameisen died he was actually happy. I heard from his fiance a while after his death. They were due to be married shortly after he died. It breaks my heart for her, but makes me happy for him. You know?



Anyway, don't know why I got off on that tangent. Must be feeling particularly morbid this morning?



Glad you've joined us!

:hug:

[Lostinspace]

Welcome to the forum, Danathos! Sorry I’m late to the party. It definitely is hard to have faith in the process when you don’t see any improvement yet. I had many moments of doubt along the way because it took me a very long time and a really high dose to reach indifference. I won’t say how long/how much because I don’t want to scare you. My case is pretty unusual from what I’ve seen here, plus there are things I could have done differently to hasten the process. Anyway, coming to this forum and getting support from people who had been there and made it to the other side made a huge difference for me. And like others have said, read the studies showing its success to give yourself a boost in confidence. This stuff really does work - amazingly so. I’ve very earnestly tried to quit drinking before so many times I don’t have enough fingers to count. I tried with every fiber in my being to stay stopped every time I got out of detox or rehab, but I just couldn’t do it. Baclofen made all the difference. There really is such a thing as effortless sobriety and it’s a wonderful place to be.

I don’t have much advice regarding side effects since I never experienced any, but if it makes you feel any better, I can only think of two people here whose side effects did not subside with time. It seems to be the norm that once you stabilize on a certain dose, the side effects will fade. I’m sorry for what you’re going through, and I’m sorry I can’t be of more help, but I do hope that you stick it out. Living a life where alcohol doesn’t even enter your mind is an amazing thing and you’ll get there, too

[Danathos]

I'm in Lancashire, UK. Been a rough couple of days, I was in hospital from yesterday morning until afternoon today. Viral gastroenteritis. Sadly I begun to go into withdrawal too and was treated with chlordiazepoxide, but they won't continue that treatment now I've been discharged. So if I don't drink tonight I'm two days sober, but I'm terrified of the idea of withdrawals/seizures. Yes I won't be dropping again like that. I've had no SEs from baclofen since I wasn't drinking.
I haven't increased from 120 for a while but thanks to hospital my dosages were a bit shakey the past 2 days
So how much and how quickly should I increase my dose? Today was 130mg

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Ouch! I hope you're feeling completely recovered.

I wouldn't make any changes for at least a couple of days. I am not a doctor or a medical professional, and I really have no idea. My philosophy is better safe than sorry, and generally that means no changes until things (everything) is normal.

Glad you got detoxed for the first two days. Baclofen has been proven to help with withdrawal and lowers the seizure threshold from alcohol withdrawal. Remember, I'm not a medico, okay? (Terryk, if you're around, will you post that research again?)

Can you see a doctor to get a very short round (3 or 4 days) of valium? Or some other detox agent? Or go to the ED if you're experiencing withdrawal symptoms. They've got to treat you there, right?