Baclofen advice required

[Ne/Neva Eva]

If I'm being completely honest I have to admit that I'm willing to put up with a lot in terms of side effects now that I've experienced indifference. That said, side effects should be managed so that they don't completely mess up our lives.



I was nauseous and even vomited from taking too much baclofen at one time. I am terrible at maintaining a regular schedule with my doses on a regular basis. (I was much better about this the first time around, after I figured out how important it was. PLEASE NOTE: It's very important to take it regularly and on the same schedule every day. I do not believe that waking up in the middle of the night is a good idea, as good sleep hygiene, when we can get it, is very important. Otter and I have always [strongly] disagreed about this.)



Anyway. I was taking it over 9 hours, 3x/day. I moved my dosing to spread it out over about 12 hours, and started taking it 4x/day. TA DA! No nausea. No sleep disturbance, no side effects at all. I'm taking 400mg, btw, but have been on this stuff for a long time. It was very different when I first titrated up.



Part of what is different is that I have much less fear and anxiety about taking this medication off label and without a prescription. The first time, I had a really hard time with that, even though I got my prescription from Dr. Levin. He wasn't much help in the support department.



I don't want to make this all about me, though.



Dan, I'm really glad you went and got some medical attention. I don't think this is necessarily related to baclofen, although your anxiety about taking baclofen may be making things worse. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that you are abstinent. And for that you should be PROUD. Look yourself in the mirror and say nice things to yourself. Ok. You don't have to do that. But really, I hope you feel good about swimming through this mud of anxiety and doubt and fear. Means you're strong. Hang in there. I felt like SuperWoman after I reached indifference, after what I'd been through...



Nic, I think you're on the right track. (IMHO, for what it matters.) The recommended increase for titrating up is 10-20mg every 3-5 days. Or until side effects subside. I found, and so have others, that side effects changed as I went up. So I wouldn't rush things, but I wouldn't hold back too long either. I did both of those and they were both wrong decisions. Hind sight is still 20/20.



Knobert, have we met before?



Hanging in there with you guys.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I hadn't completely read the thread before I posted my last post. I have to respond to this comment from Mom2JT!

Edit: Everything tastes odd to me as well. This sounds crazy, but even my teeth feel weird. This is relatively minor though compared to the shortness of breath, sleep apnea, and edema I've been struggling with. At least the insomnia has abated. Even the calms forte didn't cure that. I envy people with little or no side effects. If I wasn't so desperate to stop drinking, I would never willingly put myself through this!

Right before I hit indifference a couple of notable things happened. One is that I started to get my house in order. The inner life was straightening itself out, and the outer life was still chaos. So that changed...



Another is that I started needing to brush my teeth a lot. I mean A LOT. I even bought a waterpik. I still don't know what that was about...



The shortness of breath and/or sleep apnea subsides, unless that was an issue before. If it was, I really recommend seeing a doc! That sleep thing, or lack of it, will mess a girl up. Guys, too. The edema, too, is worrisome. Is that under control?



My good friend, and a man who underestimates his own sage wisdom, (bleep), once said that he wouldn't give baclofen to his worst enemy, but he would give it to his best friend. I absolutely agree. I gave it to my husband, after all, and I mostly like him. I know that watching him go through the experience, when I was already sober, helped solidify my understanding of, and belief in, this medication. No way was I going to let him go through what I went through! And when he stopped drinking against his will, it was truly magical.



It isn't magic. It's medicine. But it sure looks like magic when it happens.

[nicnak68]

Ne,I take on your words of wisdom.
I know it works and that's what makes me keep on it,but I can see how ppl give up and that must be frustrating for someone like you that knows it works.
Hopefully it makes ppl have faith on push on

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Nic, I'm glad you think my words are wise. They're born from being on this website...Would that we had a place of our own. I'm still working on it, but it's slow going...



And listen, the baclofen effectiveness thing? It used to frustrate me to no end that people gave up. Now I completely understand. I can't wait until the research and medicine catch up with what we know already. I certainly don't know what the medicinal answer is going to be, but I know the answer is most likely going to be medicinal.



It's my humble opinion that baclofen is a sledge hammer for a couple of roofing nails. Still, I'd take the sledge hammer in the short term over the lifetime of a cycle of shame, remorse and resentment that addiction incurs. (EDIT: And sickness and early death and the impact on loved ones and strangers...) I can finally understand, though, why others don't.



When chemotherapy for cancer treatment first started, it was brutal. Still is for most cancers. I don't know how this is any different. Chemotherapy just means the treatment of disease by the use of chemical substances...



What I was facing, what I'm still facing, is a lifetime of slavery to a substance I can't control. If I developed diabetes, I wouldn't hesitate to take insulin and watch my diet. I have a chemical malfunction in my brain chemistry. Now I take baclofen, and watch my intake of alcohol.



I feel like I'm about to get on a soapbox and I don't want to lecture to the choir. I can't wait for the freedom of indifference again. I hope you guys will get there, too. Jkttdp. And other things, too. xxoo

[knobert]

Hey Nic

You mentioned your love of tea. Unlike coffee, tea can have a calming effect, especially green tea. Even though tea has caffeine, it also has an amino acid L-Theanine. There are claims that it is an anxiety reducer and mood enhancer. L-Theanine has been proven to increase alpha waves in the brain which are present in wakefulness where there is a relaxed and effortless alertness.
It acts antagonistically against the effects of caffeine and is also involved in the formation of GABA, which influences dopamine and serotonin levels.

Enough of that.

If you used to love it, you may want to keep drinking it. --- If you can stand the taste - LOL

Take care

Knob :thumbsup:

[knobert]

Hey Dan

I read your last post. Having been there, I do not under-estimate what you are going through. I wish I was a great motivational speaker.
Just, stay at it. Your tenacity is GREAT. "I refuse to drink again". You're going to win because you refuse to lose.

Don't let the non-endorsement by your doctors shake you. In Dr. A's book he writes how a colleague said he had found a cure to addiction but not to get his hopes too high as medical dogma is hard to change.

The medical society has been thinking the same way for so many years, it's like their feet are in concrete! You must go to therapy. There is no end to addiction. That a drug can stop cravings is poppycock. Also, rehab for profit has become big business.
Hell, many in the medical society believe cravings aren't real!

Dr. A writes on page 164 of his book "Some researchers say that addictive craving is too elusive a concept to have a practical value. To which I say: Like pain, it is only elusive if you don't have it". -- TOUCHE --

Thank you Dr. A

Don't be discouraged by their ignorance. All the people who have repeated Dr. A's treatment have proven them wrong. Like Ne says, she believes the solution will be medicine. I believe the solution is medicine.

You're doin' great! Keep trudging. There is success.

Knobert :victorious:

"It is harder to crack a prejudice than an atom". --- Albert Einstein

[Mentium]

Just joined the forum for the express purpose of looking for fellow baclofen users. I have a proper prescription (after faffing about with on-line pharmacies and deciding not to trust that source) and I am now on day 11 and 60 MG as of today. Can't say I have noticed anything much in terms of effects, side effects of reduction in the desire to drink. I'm holding on to what I've read - including The End of my Addiction. It is more a matter of faith at this point it seems to me. And hope of course. I've tried to quit so many times with varying degrees of success. The most recent being ten months last year. Ten months of misery, once the freshness of life without alcohol had worn off to be frank because the desire to drink never really left me. Anyway here's hoping.

[nicnak68]

Just posted this on another thread but thought it would be better here as I post here more
Welcome mentium
Glad you found the forum
I've used a few but not found one I know will send me the real thing and fast.
The Bac I'm using now comes from gold pharma and I know it's real because it's what uk gps prescribe but they are no longer sending out meds that need prescriptions.When I meet with Dr Chick I will ask about his upper limit and then will have to rethink where I get it from.Im on 150 now and my switch was 180 but SEs are not as bad this time except for feeling really really sick

[Mom21961]

Another is that I started needing to brush my teeth a lot. I mean A LOT. I even bought a waterpik. I still don't know what that was about...

The shortness of breath and/or sleep apnea subsides, unless that was an issue before. If it was, I really recommend seeing a doc! That sleep thing, or lack of it, will mess a girl up. Guys, too. The edema, too, is worrisome. Is that under control?
.

Ne,

Thank you for your post. I am brushing and flossing constantly now. Hopefully I'm getting close to the switch as well.

I have seen the doc, actually more than one. I did not disclose the fact that I'm on HDB. I now sleep with a cpap machine, take diuretics and use compression garments to battle the edema, use nootropics (adrafinil) on my busy days at work to combat the somnolence, and use 3 calms forte and 3mg of melatonin as needed for sleep. I haven't found a solution for the shortness of breath, except for time, but I'm upping the cardio to try and increase my lung capacity. Just typing all that out, it's evident that some might think I am crazy to continue to take Baclofen. However I would do ANYTHING to reach that switch. Bac is the only thing that's given me hope. And just a note to those who are thinking of starting Baclofen... Some have little to no side effects, so don't be afraid

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I know what you mean. I told my pdoc that baclofen was making me vomitous and she was aghast that I'm still taking it. It seriously shocked her. Me? Not so much. I mean it sucked, but there's not much that could get in the way of me taking the pills. They gave me life, after all.

Even now, even though I'm still drinking, it is NOTHING like before. Nothing even close to that level of shame and degradation and despair, waking up every morning swearing that I would not drink that day no matter what, only to find myself in a blackout by bedtime.

I'm actually really impressed and proud of you for taking those actions to take control of your health. It bodes well. Nicely done!

Dan, how are you today?

[nicnak68]

My husband had a cpap machine that he doesn't use anymore that I'm tempted to use but it's very noisy and invasive

[nicnak68]

Just reading about your shortness of breath mom and I didn't think I had that,but just thought that I got breathless when walking the dog because I am oversight (was 8 stone in my early 30's but because of alcohol I am now 47 and 12 and s half stone) but my 19 year old son has Asthma and has a peak flow puffa thing and I'm blowing 300 which I think is bad

[Spellers]

I am restarting on bac as started drinking again in Feb after reducing my dose to 50mg. It began slowly and moderately but I'm drinking 1 bottle of wine a day again this past couple of months. I can go 2 days without, so it is 5 days a week.

I'm dreading going back on bac tbh. Last time the side effects were so bad I began hallucinating. I was on a long-haul plane trip and told the flight attendants I wanted to get off. I thought I was on a boat and got very confused. It took me 10 mins to get orientated and realise where I was. It was so embarrassing - I was talking rationally to the attendants saying 'no I got on here by mistake, my baggage isn't with me, I need to get off at the next stop'. I had been travelling around for 10 days which somewhat explains why I was a bit disorientated, but still. I also left an island on a boat, leaving my luggage behind, and had to do a 4 hour return to pick it up. I decided to tritrate up to my switch while on vacation. Lol. it worked but I'm still scarred by the memory of the side effects.

[nicnak68]

Hi spellers,
I started drinking again after going down to much.Did you just have to go up to your original dose or did you have to go higher?

[Mentium]

Just wandering what might have caused this. Did you perhaps increase the dose too quickly or start/stop your intake. I'm at 60 ng at day 13 after starting at 15 per day and other than some subtle mental changes (I'm not sure I can even describe them) I have not found I have had any side effects. I haven't reached the 'switch' dose yet either.

I am restarting on bac as started drinking again in Feb after reducing my dose to 50mg. It began slowly and moderately but I'm drinking 1 bottle of wine a day again this past couple of months. I can go 2 days without, so it is 5 days a week.

I'm dreading going back on bac tbh. Last time the side effects were so bad I began hallucinating. I was on a long-haul plane trip and told the flight attendants I wanted to get off. I thought I was on a boat and got very confused. It took me 10 mins to get orientated and realise where I was. It was so embarrassing - I was talking rationally to the attendants saying 'no I got on here by mistake, my baggage isn't with me, I need to get off at the next stop'. I had been travelling around for 10 days which somewhat explains why I was a bit disorientated, but still. I also left an island on a boat, leaving my luggage behind, and had to do a 4 hour return to pick it up. I decided to tritrate up to my switch while on vacation. Lol. it worked but I'm still scarred by the memory of the side effects.