Baclofen advice required

[nicnak68]

Knobert
Getting a bit more sleep but shoulders are still very tense.Am up to 180mg now which was my switch before but still drinking,will up it again today.Feeling a bit sick but sleepiness in the day is not so bad

[knobert]

Hey Ment

That's sounds great! We'll keep our fingers crossed.

How are you feeling? Any bad SEs?

Hey Nic

Glad to hear your sleeping a little better. The neck and shoulders thing sounds aggravating.
Did you ever talk to your Dr. about the sleep and shoulders thing?

Hope you continue to improve and the bac starts helping soon.

Take care

Knob :thumbsup:

[nicnak68]

Knobert
I hadn't been to the docs in 4 years till I went recently and they referred me to two local addictions places but one said they couldn't help me if I was on Bac as they do group and one to one counselling but they can't really bring Bac into it and I can understand that.The other place just was concerned about me detoxing safely,they talked about drinking 3 bottles minus a glass for a week and so on.Telling an alcoholic to drink a certain amount of units a day is ridiculous,I just used to drink till I passed out basically do dependant on when I started it could be one bottle of wine or 3.So basically I've lost faith in GPs ect.I'm going to see a doctor in Harley street next week who can prescribe me Bac and I will ask him about the tension ect

[Mentium]

Knobert: I'm at 70 mg and I am having some very mild SEs. When I upped to 70 yesterday I got some mild snapping feelings in my hands (like a very mild electric shock) and I am having some mild tingly feelings as well as some odd colourful patterns, hardly detectable in my vision when my eyes are closed and only just there. Nothing alarming though and given that my alcohol intake has fallen quite a bit this last few days it could well be part of that for all I know.

Nicknac: I feel for you - especially as you pointed me towards this forum from elsewhere - for which thank you again! I think the truth is that the sorts of agency you/we deal with are very fixed in their models of intervention. Their nurses and counsellors don't have much choice in the model they use and they end up being pretty narrow minded. I went to our local drug and alcohol advisory service a while back. I had been sober a couple of weeks and was feeling pretty good, but also vulnerable to drinking again. The psychiatric nurse I saw (I think that is what she was anyway) told me firmly that I was so well motivated that I didn't need their service. I had to push for a follow up appointment. There was me, a 'respectable' middle class sort of chap seeking help while out in the back yard the heroin addicts were smoking and waiting for there methadone scripts and she couldn't I suspect get past that - her job was about those guys and down and outs - and also I learned in due course, moderation management as a model. I phoned up for a further appointment and spoke to another worker who asked me if I had been to AA. I said I didn't like AA and didn't believe in a lot of their approach. Her response, rather unbelievably was 'if you are desperate enough you would eat shit'. When I saw (yet another) nurse I complained about this - and I am not a complainer as things go.

Anyway the point is that the system makes the rules and simply does not seem flexible enough to accommodate new evidence and thinking. The end result is that the models they use are based on poor or non existent evidence and simply can't accommodate the likes of a new approach such as Ameisen's. Perhaps one day they will if enough of us get sober with it and pass the good news onwards.

Anyway I am ranting and will stop. Good luck on the 3rd with Professor Chick! He's a nice man.

[knobert]

Hi Nic

I can understand where you're coming from with the GPs. I am fortunate that I found a Dr. who would assist me in my endeavor, but it wasn't easy for me to convince her. She prescribes me 80mgs but when I tried to convince her to up the amount by going off label, she got downright mad at me. I can understand that as well. She did monitor my escalation. I showed her the pills I ordered and she insisted on seeing me regularly and noted my side effects as I progressed. I kept my own notes and we would review them. During this, she prescribed Zolpidem to help my sleep, and Flexeril for my back pain(that was not an SE from baclofen). She truly was concerned and I think she was learning from this also.
Be very vigilant with any meds and alcohol.

I hope the bac starts helping to reduce the drinking soon. I am confident that things will get markedly better when that happens.

I hope things start improving for you soon. How's your stomach?

Keep posting

Knob :thumbsup:

[knobert]

HI ment

I also got the electrical sensation. For me it was my hands, feet, and forearms. It got pretty annoying but I managed to get through it. A lot of people her call them the zaps. I believe the real term is paraesthesia.

It sounds like you are doing pretty good.

Here's a link about prescribing bac. You don't have to register or join, just scroll down.
Section 5 is about SEs and least frequent SEs. You might find it interesting.

Prescribing Guide for Baclofen in the Treatment of Alcoholism-Final Version


Hope things keep going well

Knob :thumbsup:

[Mentium]

Many thanks Knobert. A very useful document - not just for the prescription schedule either. Cheers!

HI ment

I also got the electrical sensation. For me it was my hands, feet, and forearms. It got pretty annoying but I managed to get through it. A lot of people her call them the zaps. I believe the real term is paraesthesia.

It sounds like you are doing pretty good.

Here's a link about prescribing bac. You don't have to register or join, just scroll down.
Section 5 is about SEs and least frequent SEs. You might find it interesting.

Prescribing Guide for Baclofen in the Treatment of Alcoholism-Final Version


Hope things keep going well

Knob :thumbsup:

[nicnak68]

Mentium
I'm glad you found this site because it's the only one I know with an easy to follow format that has a dedicated thread for Baclofen.
I was the same with the local addictions place.It was very open and local and was worried I would see someone I knew.
It was full of people just there to get "tested".... whatever that means.Or being told to go there by the police or just sitting in the waiting room talking about injecting in there groin!
I feel like I'm being a snob but that just isn't me or my life style...I'm very much a behind closed doors alchy and don't move in those circles .A lot of the ppl I saw in the waiting room smelt of alcohol and I definetly wouldn't have had a drink before my appointment

[Spiritfree]

Hi Lex –
You are one of the very few who have the ability and courage to try and promote alternative solutions to becoming alcohol free if Baclofen does not work for someone. Lex, Baclofen does not work for many people. If it did, it would already be a sensation-viral drug for the elimination of alcoholism.

Lex, I will again be going back to my MWO vacation, but I truly do believe that it is of the utmost importance for people to have access to the realities of medications -including Baclofen, and what really happens.

I recently read a post where a person finally achieved (after 1.5 years) what they called indifference to alcohol , and then quickly went out and got totally smashed, ashamed, embarrassed, and humiliated. Lex, this person is still not free from alcohol; instead, they are taking a medication at a high dose that allows them to 'think' that they are in control over their alcohol. This is so very sad. This person continues to dole out advice regarding Baclofen and side effects, and yet they still have not resolved their own problem(s). To them, they must stand by the Baclofen committee to feel accepted, yet they continue to harm themselves and others with their rhetoric.

Baclofen does help (at least for me) to stop the cyclical thoughts of using alcohol to solve my current crisis problems, but it does not stop or rid me of my underlying issues to stop drinking in the first place.

--sf--

Edit: Lex -you must also consider the fact that you are discussing an issue with someone who has existed on this forum for many years and has several different avatar names and continuously creates new avatars in an effort to keep "baclofen" at the forefront. This person considers the medication thread as their own and will go to any length to try and keep it that way.

[Otter]

Hi Lex –
You are one of the very few who have the ability and courage to try and promote alternative solutions to becoming alcohol free if Baclofen does not work for someone. Lex, Baclofen does not work for many people. If it did, it would already be a sensation-viral drug for the elimination of alcoholism.

Lex, I will again be going back to my MWO vacation, but I truly do believe that it is of the utmost importance for people to have access to the realities of medications -including Baclofen, and what really happens.

I recently read a post where a person finally achieved (after 1.5 years) what they called indifference to alcohol , and then quickly went out and got totally smashed, ashamed, embarrassed, and humiliated. Lex, this person is still not free from alcohol; instead, they are taking a medication at a high dose that allows them to 'think' that they are in control over their alcohol. This is so very sad. This person continues to dole out advice regarding Baclofen and side effects, and yet they still have not resolved their own problem(s). To them, they must stand by the Baclofen committee to feel accepted, yet they continue to harm themselves and others with their rhetoric.

Baclofen does help (at least for me) to stop the cyclical thoughts of using alcohol to solve my current crisis problems, but it does not stop or rid me of my underlying issues to stop drinking in the first place.

--sf--

Edit: Lex -you must also consider the fact that you are discussing an issue with someone who has existed on this forum for many years and has several different avatar names and continuously creates new avatars in an effort to keep "baclofen" at the forefront. This person considers the medication thread as their own and will go to any length to try and keep it that way.

Yes, SF, it stops alcoholic craving and anxiety dysporia. Read the Prescribing Guidelines which clearly say that people in recovery need support for the "mess" they have created and to deal with problems which cause anxiety.

The problem with the way you look at baclofen is that you can't distinguish between a chemical reaction in the brain, ie., baclofen working to stop anxiety/craving, and the life issues, personality issues, which cause anxiety. No one has ever said baclofen makes life blissful but it does get rid of the "illness" so you can then move on. What is damaging to this is that people are fragile coming off alcohol with baclofen and they need help with that.

Like it or not, and I know you don't like it, baclofen works at a molecular level in the brain, other drugs don't. That's a medical and scientific fact.

[Mentium]

As a general observation from a newbie (this is not a response to a specific post - and certainly not the one above), can we stick to discussions about baclofen, its evidence base, methodology and so forth. As a newcomer I am finding the bickering in this thread and a related one, rather off-putting.

On 70 MG at the moment. My alcohol intake has been decreasing over recent days. Last night however, I suspect because I didn't get the 'buzz' I normally get I drank more than is my 'usual' amount, which was disappointing. Baclofen is certainly having an impact on my drinking. It is disrupting it at this point. I am hoping that the indifference point is not too far off.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I agree, Mentium. This should be a bicker-free-zone. And since the thread is about baclofen, (thread title: "Baclofen Advice Needed") it makes sense to stick with the topic at hand.



I haven't been participating, other than reading. Partly because I have really enjoyed the conversation! You guys are awesome and make my heart happy. I haven't found the need to give my measly $0.02. Plus, and this is no joke, the husky puppy has suddenly decided that when I'm sitting still I should be playing with her. I can still watch tv (which I rarely do) but no reading or writing or computer time is acceptable. It's funny. When it's not incredibly annoying.



As I was writing this she was gnawing on my left hand, pawing at my feet, then my legs, then finally my face. I finally moved outside in the cold, because she likes the company and will entertain herself in the yard, and will give her a bone shortly so I can get some work done.



Not exactly the kind of first post you guys thought you'd hear from me, is it? ha.

:hug:

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Hmmm. I do have something meaningful (perhaps) and on topic...

I wanted to mention to you guys, especially the newbies, that side effects can be a little contagious. I am NOT suggesting that you don't post about side effects. That's very important! One of the reasons I stick around is because I feel like I've had ALL the side effects and can offer insight or at least support.

That said, if you're new, and you read about a side effect, you probably don't want to ingest it. You know what I mean? I'll give you an example. I have beautiful blood pressure. 110/60 or so on any given day. There were several people on here at the same time who were (legitimately) experiencing high blood pressure, related to baclofen (and maybe also to not drinking or to drinking). Anyway.

I started checking my blood pressure and guess what? Suddenly it's 140/80. Still normal but way high for me. But did you know that you have to check your blood pressure several times over several days to get an accurate reading? I'm gonna guess that I only checked my blood pressure when I was freaking out or worried or stressed and convinced myself my blood pressure was skyrocketing. lol.

I have never, in my life, had an official reading of over 120/80. And I'm in a nursing program, where we practiced on each other for months for class.

Here's another brief example. Someone posted a while back that the brand of baclofen I take might not be effective. Suddenly, my mind goes into overdrive and convinces me that this is true. Despite the fact that my husband and I have been taking this brand on and off for years. lolol. My mind is a pain in the ass sometimes.

So when you read this stuff, try to separate it a little bit. Which is NOT to say we don't all experience similar side effects. And as I said, I've had a lot of 'em. I just don't want you (or me) to have more than what you earn. ( That's a joke.)
:hug:

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Just gave the puppy a big meaty bone for her bad behavior so she would leave me alone. No wonder she's still bad.

[knobert]

Hi Lex –

Baclofen does help (at least for me) to stop the cyclical thoughts of using alcohol to solve my current crisis problems, but it does not stop or rid me of my underlying issues to stop drinking in the first place.

--sf--

Part of one of my posts to Danathos.

"The "not wanting a drink" was such a revelation to me as I had never experienced that. To me it was simply amazing.

However, keep in mind, just because you're not drinking, that doesn't mean every other issue is solved. You are still going to have what ever pressures and problems you were dealing with before, which might have been a huge factor in your becoming alcohol dependent in the first place.

Even though you will still have work to do, at least you will be dealing with it without that GORILLA on your back, drinking. Your brain will be able to work for you again so you can tackle this.

I'm confident you will continue to improve and feel better and at least be physically able to get on with life. Get out there and try to be active. One thing you have to consider is what will you do with all that time you used to spend drinking?

Just keep up the effort and know that baclofen will stop "craving" from being a reason for relapse.

As Dr. A tried to explain to his friends in his book, it wasn't him, baclofen had made not drinking effortless because it stopped the cravings.

As you continue to work and struggle, always recall and never forget how good it feels to say "I JUST DON'T WANT TO"

You're doing great.
Keep posting

Knobert "


Many of us are fully aware of what recovery means. Baclofen will not make your world a paradise. It will not solve all your problems. But, for many of us, it will allow you to stop drinking. That is the BIGGEST problem. It will KILL you.

Knob