Baclofen advice required

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Mentium, I really liked your post. But needless to say, we have been down this road before so many times over the last couple of years, I am not holding out hope that it will be met with anything other than derision and condescension.

Please read this post from Spiritwolf333 (who is now Spiritfree) from 2013:

https://www.mywayout.org/community/medication-research-and-support/73941-spiritwolf-miracle-journey-continues.html

Also please keep in mind that many of us have had conversations both on here and personal ones with Spiritwolf/Spiritfree about the fact that he hurts rather than helps the forum with his posts. It has never worked.

I was naive to think that we would be free from his trollish behavior and so I stopped working toward setting up a baclofen and medication forum. That is now a primary goal for me to accomplish. Will let you know the date we can expect that to be available. In the meantime, for you guys who are new and finding this disturbing, PLEASE try very hard to focus on your own journey and ignore Spirit's bizarre and malignant posts. They will distract you from the important things. Like your own sobriety. And supporting one another. Those things are more important than any one troll.

Sincerely,

Karen/Ne

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Mentium, I appreciate your post very much. Perhaps you don't know how many times we have had this conversation with Spiritwolf333/Spiritfree before. I am not holding out hope that your post will be met with anything other than paranoid condescension. The more we respond to Spirit, the more he participates in the forum. Any attention is good attention in his world.

Please read the following post from Spiritwolf333 (now Spiritfree). I will also post the short version, since it's very long and rambling. The bold text is mine, in order to illuminate the fact that Spirit continued to drink after he reached indifference, and that he took baclofen (without any other therapy or medications) in order to get sober and eventually stay abstinent. I'm not sure what happened to turn him into a troll that attempts to undermine the supportive community we have created here. He's never been willing to post any personal information except that which he wants us to believe, some of which is not true.

He has also used several usernames, besides the two I mention here. Those usernames were used to support his posts and/or denigrate other people on the forum. Something against the rules, for which he should have been banned immediately.

https://www.mywayout.org/community/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=73941

:thumbs: Today marks 133 days ?alcohol free (except for a few intentional experiments) and a level dose of 180mg of baclofen for over 60 days.
...
The intentional alcohol experiments helped me to realize that I no longer have to be afraid of alcohol. In the back of my mind, I kept wondering if it was really true ?as Dr. A had said ?he could take it or leave it. Could it possibly be true that the old mind set of ?once you start ?you could not stop? now be a thing of the past? I had to find out for myself. I?ve been so damn tired of being afraid of everything that I was (and am) willing to face any fear that I may now encounter. FACT (for me): I had no desire to consume more than two drinks at any time. In fact, each time that I tested the waters of Firewater, I found myself questioning the logic. The FACT for me is that I do not have to AFRAID of alcohol. I do not want to take any chances of ever going back to where I was pre-baclofen and I have a feeling that continued, pre-meditated use would jeopardize my success with baclofen. At this stage of my transition, I find myself having an almost ?Anti-Alcohol? reaction to consumption. As others have said; ?I am drinking against my will? when I do drink.
...
In honor of Dr. Oliver Ameisen, I hereby pledge my continued support of his discovery.
...
By far, BACLOFEN has been the GREATEST miracle for this ole country boy. I only dreamed that this new life I now experience could exist. It now exist and I am one GRATEFUL human being.

PEACE to us all.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

One last thing, Mentium. There is plenty of research and information related to the successes of high dose baclofen. Not just the anecdotal accounts here, of which there are many. I hope you are taking the time to read the other threads. I also hope that sometime soon I'll be able to post all of the research that Terryk was nice enough to organize and send to me. In the meantime, know you are on the right path.

[Mentium]

Thanks for this. It is difficult sometimes to ignore a negative presence in an internet forum. There is something about the forum format that results in negativity attracting attention when it is the least helpful thing to happen! Seen it many times.

I have also seen new forums (not sobriety focused one admittedly) which have splintered away from 'home' forums and sadly have lost momentum and members and as a result never taken off that well. Mind you I think the time for a baclofen focused forum seems to be ripe and there is definitely a groundswell of interest out there.

Good luck and please keep us informed.

I have asked this of a couple of people who have PMed me, but isn't this forum moderated?

On the subject of moderation I am a member of Sober Recovery, which for those who don't know is probably a 'market leader' in terms of in-line sobriety forum support. I won't knock it too much as it really does do a very good job in most respects. But it does follow the current ideology approach, i.e. AA and a little grudgingly perhaps other more secular approaches and doesn't have much time for people stepping out of line. Their mods shut down a thread on baclofen because they decided there was spamming going on - i.e. people (not only me) were discussing the baclofen approach and a couple of links were posted. Sigh.

Mentium, I really liked your post. But needless to say, we have been down this road before so many times over the last couple of years, I am not holding out hope that it will be met with anything other than derision and condescension.

Please read this post from Spiritwolf333 (who is now Spiritfree) from 2013:

https://www.mywayout.org/community/medication-research-and-support/73941-spiritwolf-miracle-journey-continues.html

Also please keep in mind that many of us have had conversations both on here and personal ones with Spiritwolf/Spiritfree about the fact that he hurts rather than helps the forum with his posts. It has never worked.

I was naive to think that we would be free from his trollish behavior and so I stopped working toward setting up a baclofen and medication forum. That is now a primary goal for me to accomplish. Will let you know the date we can expect that to be available. In the meantime, for you guys who are new and finding this disturbing, PLEASE try very hard to focus on your own journey and ignore Spirit's bizarre and malignant posts. They will distract you from the important things. Like your own sobriety. And supporting one another. Those things are more important than any one troll.

Sincerely,

Karen/Ne

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I have also seen new forums (not sobriety focused one admittedly) which have splintered away from 'home' forums and sadly have lost momentum and members and as a result never taken off that well.

I know. But that's not really the point of a new forum. The point is that from this point forward there will be a place to speak specifically about baclofen and medications without distraction. And of course, without trolls. At least there will be something, somewhere that focuses only on sharing the type of information and support that has gained momentum here. I suppose I think of it as an adjunct rather than a replacement. And someplace to retreat to when this section of the forum is overrun with negativity.

I have asked this of a couple of people who have PMed me, but isn't this forum moderated?

No. Not really.

[dundrinkn]

Mentium,
What a great post! Like Ne, I don't expect it will change anything about the dynamics of said poster, but it was very well-articulated. Valiant effort!

Thanks for linking to the thread, Ne. I'm surprised he hasn't deleted his comments as it seems to negate his own mission on here. He seems to detail quite well in this thread what happens to a lot of folks who reach indifference on baclofen which is going from blissful (man this shit is a miracle!) to then having to deal with the underlying causes of why we drink. And baclofen can relieve us of the physical craving, but the underlying issues (in some cases mental illness as mentioned in that thread) are not treated with baclofen. So the thread is informative in many ways.

Knock wood, my underlying depression seems to have been lifted by the HRT I started in August. Again, a chemical issue. As long as I don't get hit by that again, I seem to be able to stay on top of the relationship issues with partner, kids, dogs, etc. so I don't get overwhelmed to the point of wanting to drink for escape/relief. Knock wood again for good measure.

Ne's advice is great. Just focus on your own experience and recovery. If you end up a target of a troll, best to just block them. The hateful, destructive postings on this board in the past two years have been really detrimental to people achieving their goals. I was blocking for a while, but am no longer bothered. I know the truth about baclofen which is it works. When it works, it is a miracle for the drinking alcoholic who reaches indifference. But that isn't the end of the story. Keep up the good work!

[Mentium]

Dundrinkn - thanks for your comments. I very much hope this issue is manageable because this is the first time I have found somewhere on the net to discuss baclofen related issues in detail.

Sorry to hear about your depression issues and I hope they are resolved. It raises the issue of 'underlying' issues and addiction it seems to me. While I 'get' Ameisen's thinking about addiction to alcohol being a disease in and of itself it seems pretty clear that some of us are drawn to it as some sort of 'solution' to these underlying problems. Alcohol seems ultimately to compound the issues and make then worse, but for most of us they remain there. It seems to me that not resolving them risks relapse, whatever else one is doing (e.g. baclofen). Getting the two strands of addiction - i.e. the actual 'disease' and the predilection or vulnerability to addictive drinking because of underlying personal crap into the right perspective seems to me to be a task to take on - for me anyway.

[Danathos]

If you're suggesting that I had some ulterior motive for starting this thread you can go to hell. I'm just not bothering with it now because you ruined it with your bickering

[Ne/Neva Eva]

If you're suggesting that I had some ulterior motive for starting this thread you can go to hell. I'm just not bothering with it now because you ruined it with your bickering

I don't know that I picked up from anyone that you started this thread with an ulterior motive. I think the thread title speaks for itself.

I DO know how disruptive it can be when your own thread turns into a bicker-fest.

Hopefully we have moved on from that and you'll feel comfortable posting again. Hang in there.

[Mentium]

Up to 80 MG today - have been 0n 70 for 4 days. No sign of any 'switch' or anything much else come to that. No side effects today either - not that I have suffered much from them, thankfully.

I'm feeling a bit alarmed at I approach 100 MG. The pills start going down at a slightly alarming rate! Will have to email my prescribing doctor in plenty of time!

I'm not quite sure what to expect in terms of a 'switch'. Experiences from others would be great.

[nicnak68]

Mentium
When I had my first 'switch' it happened less than 48 hours after I went up to 180mg and it was sort of instant,went to work and by evening I knew I didn't want to drink.Im up to 200mg second time round and no switch but I'm drinking a lot less but maybe that's because I'm so tired.Going to see Dr Chick tommorow so ill see what he says about the upper dose he will prescribe

[Danathos]

it was that 'SpiritFree' person. their post seems to have mysteriously vanished

[Danathos]

I got an email response from Doctor Chick earlier suggesting that I should drop back to 100mg of Baclofen, but I think thats because it's the max dose he prescribes

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Dan, I can't remember, how much bac are you taking? I know it's really, really hard, but it's such a good idea to ignore trolls. I don't know if you've been on other internet forums (I haven't) but I get that trolls are a normal thing. Unfortunately, this forum isn't moderated. Just keep your eyes on the goal, okay?

Ment, the switch is not elusive. It's a real thing. More on that in my morning. (About 12 hours from now.)

Nic, that's really interesting. It's not just milligrams, though. It's time, too. At least in my very humble opinion.

Again, more tomorrow.

[Mom21961]

it was that 'SpiritFree' person. their post seems to have mysteriously vanished

Just an FYI... If you select 'reply with quote' rather than just 'reply', you can capture what was said even if it's deleted later.