Baclofen advice required

[knobert]

The sleep issues have improved with the 4x dosing schedule and I take the last dose earlier in the evening. I think I'll try the 5x. I don't need the calms forte / melatonin anymore. I won't go into the whole litany of things that I do to try and mitigate all the side effects since I don't want to scare anyone but it's also a mental thing where I just tell myself I need to keep going up and once I get to where I'm going, things will be better after awhile. Yes, my drinking is definitely reduced, but it varies. On super stressful days I drink more. When I titrate up, I see a difference, but if I stay too long at a certain level, my consumption goes back up. It's really a roller coaster ride. I do eat well, stay hydrated, and do the multi/B vitamin thing.

Thanks for asking!

Hey Mom

Are you still at 225? Any changes?
I want to expand on the B- vitamins, especially B-6. The b6 you get over the counter is pyridoxine hydrochloride(HCl). That gets converted by the liver with a few minerals(I can feel Terryk cringing right here), into pyrodoxal-5-phosphate(P-5-P), which is the bioactive form of b6. In other words, this is what the body actually uses. Taking p-5-p(b6) takes the liver out of the equation.
Besides L-glutamine, another important amino acid is L-tryptophan. It along with b6(p-5-p) eventually forms Serotonin and Melatonin. It can increase serotonin levels in the brain which can improve mood. It could possibly replace one's SSRI med(Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor), and also restore normal sleep patterns--- all naturally.
You can buy p-5-p in health stores, but you can find it much cheaper on the internet. You can even find complete b-complexes made of all the bio-active forms.
It is a good idea to take any amino acid with b6(preferably p-5-p) to ensure that enough b6 is available as it dissipates quickly in the body.
I took both L-glutamine and L-tryptophan along with p-5-p. It helped me.

Anyway, just thinkin' about you and wanted to touch base

Hang in there
Knob :thumbsup:

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Sometimes you just have to ignore the fact that people like Terryk and stuckinla are here. Lol. Nothing like the research King and a PhD in fecking English to make one nervous about posting something. Right? Lol

[knobert]

Thanks Ne

[Ne/Neva Eva]

:thumbsup:

[nicnak68]

Nic,

I have almost every documented side effect and then some. I just had a full work up and my liver was fine (miraculously). It's the Bac. Some people have lots of side effects, especially at our dosage. I did take Ne's advice and went on the 4x a day schedule and try to take it at the same time. The edema is out of control for me too. I do have a diuretic, but then my potassium drops even with supplements so I don't often take it. I just keep reminding myself that these will all resolve once we can stop titrating up.

There's not much I won't put up with since the worst Baclofen side effects are still better than the effect of alcoholism on my life. I'm seeing a significant decrease in cravings so I'm just going to hang on by the bloody tips of my fingers until I reach indifference. Then it will all be worth it. Hang in there. We can do it! :thumbsup:

I had blood tests done in sept including clotting because I had unexplained bruising but apparently everything was normal but I really don't look well,I have very dark circles under my eyes and my eyes and skin look slightly yellow ,especially the skin around my eyes so don't know what to think.And even though I'm scared I'm still drinking,I must have a death wish!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

That said, when people start talking supplements, I get really nervous.

Like the L-tryp and p5p thing. Turns out those are precursors to something and you can actually take something that works better, but if you take all three than you bind your brain cells into a jellyfish or something.

I'm exaggerating, but I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone who was taking a boatload of supplements, in addition to baclofen, actually reach the switch. It could be any of a million things, right? But I still don't encourage people to use a bunch of supplements in addition to baclofen.

I've actually had two friends from here go completely off the rails and they were both heavily into supplements. Now I am not suggesting that the supplements were the problem, gods know that HDB comes with it's own set of issues, but it's made me a little superstitious.

What's your personal experience with supplementing while on bac, Knobert? I have been thinking about adding L-glut to my daily intake of stuff, but as I said, I'm superstitious. Mind you, if I wasn't taking baclofen, I wouldn't hesitate. Not that I think it would help much with my kind of drinking problem, but it can't hurt.

Anyway. Just my tuppence.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Nic, do you have a doctor? Or access to a doctor?

Sounds like it might be a good idea to get it all checked out, if for no other reason than to make yourself feel better.

Baclofen is actually processed through the kidneys. (Did someone on here actually talk about this already? If so, sorry.) So they found that they can treat people with liver cirrhosis with baclofen!

Now I'm not suggesting you have liver problems. How old are you? How much do you drink? Remind me how much bac you're taking, too.

There are many other symptoms of liver disease, too. Nausea and vomiting, severe edema (swelling), dark urine, etc.

When you're self-medicating, and drinking, and feeling all of those negative emotions about drinking, it's REALLY hard not to worry about our physical bodies. I had several doctors visits when I was titrating up, including a whole bunch of very expensive tests, because I was so sure there was something really wrong.

I'm also not suggesting there isn't anything wrong. I just know it's hard to be titrating up, taking bac, and drinking. Sending you good vibes.

[knobert]

Hi Ne

I took both L-glut and L-trip and pyridoxal-5-phosphate(bioactive b6), while escalating my baclofen.
These are not strange herbal supplements, these are amino acids(the building blocks of proteins), that are necessary in the human body. They're more like nutrients.
P-5-P(pyrodoxal-5-phosphate), is the bioactive form of B6. B6 that we buy is Pyridoxine HCl, which your liver turns into P-5-P(bioactive B6), which is the B6 your body actually uses. Taking vitamin b6 as pyrodoxal-5-phosphate(p-5-p), is better for you than the over the counter b6 as it doesn't have to be synthesized by the liver. This actually results in more b6 availability in the body.

L-tryptophan, L-glutamine --- common amino acids --- Don't let the name fool you. These are common in many of the foods we eat. Your body needs them.

Pyrodoxal-5-Phosphate --- the best vitamin b6 you can take.

The only concern would be if you have kidney problems, as like baclofen, a lot of it is removed by the kidneys.

I hope this puts you at ease.

Once again, these are only suggestions. If you are healthy and well nourished, your body is probably getting all of these substances that it needs. But if you are suffering from AUD, you more than likely are not. Making sure your body has what it needs to maintain proper Gaba, serotonin, and melatonon levels is a good thing. They helped me.

Hope this makes it a little clearer.
Knobert :thumbsup:

[nicnak68]

Hi Nc
I'm 47 and was drinking up to 3 bottles of wine a day for the last 2 years and before that 1-2 bottles a day for many years
I'm up to 240 mg at the moments

[knobert]

Hi Nic

I'm with Ne. I know you had the tests done and supposedly everything was ok, but I'm concerned about the yellowing of the skin and eyes. Was it there when you saw the Dr. in September or did it start to appear after that? Did you point it out to him/her? It might help to have a Dr. see that. If it's ok, then it will put you at ease. Quitting drinking is hard enough. Any anxiety factors one can remove is a big help.

I hope you feel better
Knobert

[nicnak68]

Yes the change in colour was there but the Dr didn't think I looked particularly yellow...his words
But yes,I know I should go back

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Really interesting, Knob. Thanks. I wonder if there's an interaction of some sort between taking a lot of these supplements that are processed through the kidneys (rather than the liver) and baclofen, which is also processed through the kidneys. Mind you, these are the kind of posts, the ones when I'm just guessing around about things, that make me shudder later when I know more. But I wonder if taking large amounts of supps that are kidney processed, and taking HDB, also eliminated through the kidneys, doesn't have a symbiotic effect.

Nic, the color of jaundice (the yellow) is pretty obvious. I only know that because I'm new enough in the medical world that I can't tell healthy from unhealthy in a lot of cases, but if someone is jaundiced you can tell immediately. Your doc would likely have been concerned. Plus, it takes a lot of liver disability to create jaundice. It's really unlikely that your tests would come back normal and that you would develop jaundice soon after. Really unlikely.

Look at the other symptoms, too.

What I'm suggesting is that your anxiety might be at the root of this and were I a close friend of yours, I might suggest that looking at causes for that anxiety (like your worries about taking HDB) are as important as making sure that your liver enzymes are normal. And even though I'm not a close friend, I'm going to suggest that you might want to look at the other causes of that anxiety and write about it here. We'll try to help.

And of course, there's always getting another test. I did it. I'm not ashamed of it. I was in perfect health, but I even had a stress test to make sure that my heart was in working order. It was expensive, but worth every penny to make sure that I wasn't actually jeopardizing my health. I was very, very scared about that. (Despite the fact that I knew that the amount of alcohol I drank was worse for me than just about anything else...)

That was too long. Sorry! Hang in there. :hug:

[Mom21961]

I had blood tests done in sept including clotting because I had unexplained bruising but apparently everything was normal but I really don't look well,I have very dark circles under my eyes and my eyes and skin look slightly yellow ,especially the skin around my eyes so don't know what to think.And even though I'm scared I'm still drinking,I must have a death wish!

Hmmm... I can see how that would make you worried. Those are SEs that I haven't had, and here I thought I had them all. Did they check your liver function in those tests? If not, as others have suggested, you could get tested and that would put your mind at ease.

[knobert]

Neti pot

Edit: I still have the post nasal drip thing. I HATE it!! I recently got a neti pot to see if that would help, but you just feel like you're drowning

Hi Mom

Wow, this sounds very familiar to me. When I got higher in my dosage, I started having terrible sinus trouble. I thought I had the flu as it was flu season. I was extremely stuffed up. I bought a bunch of the decongestant nose spray. That helped, but you can't use it to many days in a row, or your congestion can actually get worse. My Dr. even suggested it may be from the HDB but I disagreed with her as I had not heard of this and I did not want to halt my escalation. She even prescribed me some steroidal nose spray, but I didn't like it and it didn't work very well.

I also bought a NETI POT. -- LOL -- The neti pot worked well, but it was extremely messy. I did get much better at it, but it was still messy. But when I would use it with warm solution it felt so soothing and I could feel my sinuses opening up and draining. I always used it before bed. The good thing about the neti pot was that you could use it as often as you wanted.

Anyway, I just continued, stepping up 15mgs every 3 days until I reached 350mgs, stayed there for 3 weeks, then stepped down. As I stepped down, my sinuses cleared. Even though this persisted for weeks, I attributed it to a nasty case of the flu.
But when you mentioned the neti pot, something in my brain went BINGO! You and I did not just happen to get a terrible sinus infection and just happened to be getting into the higher levels of baclofen.

I used that neti pot a lot. I had a sealer jar mug with a sturdy glass handle on it. I would fill it with water and microwave it to a boil. Then pour it into the neti pot with the salt in it and stir. I would use it as hot as I could stand. Then I would do another batch and leave it in the neti until I needed it and then heat the neti to warm it up.
I have not used that neti since --- knock on wood.

It's humorous now, but it wasn't when I was going through it!!
I'm pretty sure now that I did not have the flu. --- LOL ---

Thanks Mom
Knobert :thumbsup:

[Mentium]

It is great to see these one to one personal support posts. Just the sort of thing I was hoping to find on this forum.

I have levelled off and slightly reduced my baclofen as the SEs seemed to be getting a little worrisome and the general advice seemed to be to slow down in those circumstances. I am still drinking and again from what I read here, that can make it tougher too. I'm going to have a few days off the booze now and see how that goes. Been trying to guild up a head of steam to do that, but addiction...

The nasal congestion thing? I thought it was just me. I had a few evening before I pulled back a bit where I simply couldn't breath properly through my nose. A bit alarming!