The challenges of the baclofen route.

[Mentium]

I'm not sure how many people here have used baclofen as a route to sober living or for that matter are living a sober life with its support. As one of the only forums I know of that discusses such issues it would be great to hear more from such people.
I thought I'd list a few challenges for the likes of us and would be grateful for any thoughts.

The medical ignorance of this method.
The degree of 'faith' required to embark on this method.
Staying committed to the path for weeks or months.
The fact that one feels one is experimenting on oneself. And therefore to some extent the bravery required. Or possibly the desperation!
The unknown territory of side effects.
The unknowable point at which the 'switch' is hit.
The challenges to the prevailing wisdom and myths one has to manage in one's head (e.g. AA etc.)
Dealing with close family/partner while doing this.

..and a few more. Anyone have any to add? However you cut it, it's a pretty tough path in my view. Solution advice also very welcome!

[Otter]

The sense of disbelief that, having recovered, everyone congratulates you on finally being able to kick the habit through willpower alone.

[YouKayBee]

The sense of disbelief that, having recovered, everyone congratulates you on finally being able to kick the habit through willpower alone.

Yes I get this too.

How many have kicked the habit and are living drinking within healthy limits, or completely AF?

[Otter]

What I am also noticing which I never noticed before is that, despite the growing awareness of the damage of alcohol, almost universally, everyone thinks it's just fine to drink. No one I ever meet now has any concerns about it at all. There seems to be no public penetration of alcohol awareness and, if anything, the younger generation who should be more switched on are worse than any generation ever. Or is it just me?

I worked in the criminal justice system and the people I worked with joked about their own drinking. Two of my line managers drank themselves so sick they had to take time off work but they would go to court and prosecute hundreds of serious drink related offences including murders. It was astonishing to see the hypocrisy. I went to a lecture by a senior police officer in Glasgow to prosecutors and he made a very odd point. He said that "some people say that alcohol is an addiction" which, he said, it was not.

I was flabbergasted. What hope is there? I think western society is in denial. If you can't beat it, deny that it exists.

[YouKayBee]

For once Otter, I totally agree with you.

Some people can see through it, my Father thinks it's a governmental conspiracy, he sees the fact that it's so acceptable, yet many people won't accept that they are addicted.

Caffeine is another one, I've lost count of the number of people who've told me there is no way they could function without coffee, and that they get a headache if they miss one of their coffees. So many also addicted yet think it's ok.

Big health improvements can be made by reducing or eliminating both these substances.

I've been asked, 'do you really not have any alcohol, not at all, what about birthdays, Christmas, weddings?'. Nope I don't touch it, not one glass, not one drop. Oh and I planned my own wedding to be (for me) AF and AF friendly. Sure there was some wine and some champagne, but I made sure the focus was definitely not on drinking. Everyone had a fantastic time. Then I drove off with my groom (he'd had a couple of glasses during the afternoon), to enjoy camomile tea in our very exclusive hotel room.

What I am also noticing which I never noticed before is that, despite the growing awareness of the damage of alcohol, almost universally, everyone thinks it's just fine to drink. No one I ever meet now has any concerns about it at all. There seems to be no public penetration of alcohol awareness and, if anything, the younger generation who should be more switched on are worse than any generation ever. Or is it just me?

I worked in the criminal justice system and the people I worked with joked about their own drinking. Two of my line managers drank themselves so sick they had to take time off work but they would go to court and prosecute hundreds of serious drink related offences including murders. It was astonishing to see the hypocrisy. I went to a lecture by a senior police officer in Glasgow to prosecutors and he made a very odd point. He said that "some people say that alcohol is an addiction" which, he said, it was not.

I was flabbergasted. What hope is there? I think western society is in denial. If you can't beat it, deny that it exists.

[dundrinkn]

I am happy that being caffeine free is working for you YouKayBee, but for me I am happily addicted to coffee.

I am currently living AF on Baclofen. Haven't decided if that's the way it will stay, but leaning toward it. I have a big trip planned in February that is a bit of a spiritual pilgrimage and I will at least stay AF through that and for a month after. That puts me well at the 8 month mark. I am planning to stay at my switch dose through then. At that point I will evaluate again. But for now I am off the mental see-saw (should I have a drink, or not). If I do decide to drink on occasion, I know I can't go down on the Baclofen.

My main challenge for me has been the nerve pain in my legs that I can minimize with big doses of Gabapentin, but it is still there on and off. That is the only real reason why I would go down on the Bac. In the past (I have switched twice) I have gone down quickly thinking I just wouldn't drink again. But inevitably I pick up a beer and at the lower dose, I no longer am indifferent if I start to drink regularly. At the higher dose, I am indifferent and can drink only on occasion.

[Lostinspace]

Mentium - You’re right. It is challenging dealing with the medical ignorance of high dose bac. Having to basically treat ourselves (or hugely supplementing our prescriptions, in my and others' cases) can be intimidating. As I went up and up in dose, I was scared I would never reach the switch. Of course, I stayed stagnant at the same dose, and then lowered my dose, and stayed there for a long time, so I wasn’t really helping myself. But I eventually started going up again and the faith eventually did pay off because I’m there - I’m indifferent! The switch isn’t really unknowable. You can’t know that yet because you haven’t reached it yet, but trust me that you’ll know it once you get there. It’s unmistakable. You simply won't care about drinking. And you’re very right that getting those old AA messages out of your head can be a daunting task. I think I’ve finally reached a point where I no longer fall victim to those old beliefs, but it took a very long time. It is a tough path to follow, but very much worth it in the end. You’re still at a pretty low dose, and I know it’s scary for many reasons, but try to hold on and keep the faith. It can work for you, too.

EDIT: I apologize Mentium. I really didn’t offer any advice/solutions that you’re looking for as to the fear and doubt that you’re going through. For me, the only thing that really helped was posting here and talking to people who had already achieved what I was looking for. I hope that by doing the same, you can keep going until you don’t have to doubt anymore.

[knobert]

Hey youkaybee

About the coffee. I was one of them. But one day I realized I wasn't drinking any coffee. I wasn't even trying to quit

Knobert :thumbsup:

[Otter]

YKB, I know you say we disagree. I have no problem with your having gone to Dr. Chick and him having steered you away from baclofen because he said it wasn't right for you.

What I would like to know is why he said this. He does advocate for and prescribe baclofen for alcoholism and has many patients who it does work for. But, in your case, you have never explained why it doesn't work for you and what he said to you. That's your right but it isn't fair to say to people who are in need of help in getting sober that your view that baclofen is not necessarily the answer for alcoholism for everyone is something people should listen to and take heed of because we don't know why it doesn't work for you. It would be helpful if you could explain why it doesn't work for you.

You can also add this as one of the problems of this path to recovery, that there are those for whom it doesn't work, which leads many to think that it doesn't work for anyone, which combined with the difficult dosage regime and everything else, feeds into a negative message. What we need is to understand and that only comes from people sharing experiences.

Congratulations, by the way...:thumbsup:

[Stevo]

This thread was started for people to contribute with their experience of life whilst using baclofen to live a sober/healthy life,well that is the impression I got.Although there are issues as highlighted by Ment and Otter,none of these things are an issue in my life anymore,if they were.

I,thanks to baclofen have been able to live a life where AL is no longer my master whether it be drunk or sober.I no longer live in fear that I may fall into the snare of AL again.I can have a drink if I choose and I can happily and easily live without it.Some nights I drink too much and others I don't.Most nights I don't drink at all and I live a very healthy life.If I have a big night it is not the end of the world.
This does not mean that I am now someone who focuses on living and eating only fresh and healthy produce and I exercise every day(I have not swapped my addiction for another healthier one although there is nothing wrong with this if that is what someone chooses).I have a foot injury and can't really exercise in the ways that I would like to anyway,but it means I am productive(I run a small company and am studying),I am raising happy well adjusted children and I certainly don't live in fear of whether AL is going to inevitably ruin my and my families lives again.
I can recall when the battle with AL was paramount and had to be won at all costs but thanks to baclofen I am not there anymore.This is what can be experienced with baclofen,it is no longer a day by day battle.
I don't count days or have a sober date,I don't live with old concepts of recovery indoctrination or conditioning.I simply live life grateful for what I found after reading Dr A's book and beginning my journey.
I do choose to keep spiritual concepts in my life as I am not an intellectual or an academic and do not believe that I can outsmart the universe but this is my personal thing.It is not a hangover from 12 step fellowship brainwashing,I have been like this for most of my life(I was not raised religious in any way and am not religious now).I do not attend any organised spiritual association or anything like that,I am actually opposed to these types of things.I try to live my life as in the moment as possible,for me this is spirituality.My concept of a God is that I could never understand the infinite with my finite mind.I am not an idealist and/or some type of freaky evangelist.

My life after hitting the switch is a much better place to be than white knuckle abstinence and rip roaring drunkenness,I now have the power of choice which I never had before.

I hope that any newcomers that may read this can understand that if they can keep the course and the SE's don't become too much that this is what bac can offer.
Obviously each persons outcomes will be different,we are all different with different goals and values.

The battle which seems to be so hard right now does have an end and freedom from AL is a possibility.

Cheers Stevo.

EDIT-I did not want to leave this sounding like a fairy tale and I have skipped pleasantly into the sunset never to have a problem again.Mistakes on my journey have been made and will be made again,this is life I am talking about and mistakes have been a great way for me to learn(even if they are painful)ha.The main point I am trying to make is that my life with baclofen in it is vastly better and easier to live than it was previously whether I was abstinent or drunk.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Stevo, would you and Lis and a few others who have found some peace and contentedness with baclofen PLEASE post on this thread:

https://www.mywayout.org/community/medication-research-and-support/43945-sweet-success-baclofen.html

[Mentium]

It is taking a while to get to grips with the way this forum works. It is a little non-standard. Most BB style boards don't give as much control to thread starters for example. I realise therefore that if one starts a thread one has a degree of responsibility for it. Anyway..

One of the challenges it strikes me is ditching a lot of the ideology driven recovery thinking, as exemplified by AA and the wider addiction industry. Despite weak evidence that any of it works particularly well there is an orthodoxy that can be hard to step out of. For example 12 Step programmes try to instil a sense of guilt and/or blame - it is big on 'character defects', 'resentments' and the like. I for one find it quite hard to not feel a pretty strong sense of guilt and even shame that I have become so dependent on alcohol and how so much of my life has been circumscribed by it.

I'm not saying that the likes of AA have nothing to offer. Ameisen had a lot of time for it and I really found some of the friendships I formed there helpful (though the speed with which I was dropped when I left spoke volumes), but rethinking the ideology in terms of a practical evidence led approach seems to me to be quite a challenge - for me anyway. Nothing speaks to this as much as a thread over in SoberRevovery, which has bought into the industry standard and which shut down and locked a thread about baclofen because it was seen as promoting 'moderation'.