My baclofen journey

[Mom21961]

Mentium... You may be interested in a thread that I started when beginning my Bac journey. You can find it here:

https://www.mywayout.org/community/medication-research-and-support/91480-baclofen-dosage-increase-slow.html

I wanted to increase my dose faster than recommended, and received lots of good feedback about it. You can also see where I struggled on the higher dosages, and my experience with reduced cravings, and then going 'backwards' again. Tons of good advice from our posters here if you'd like to take a look

[Mentium]

Thanks for the above Mom. Read with interest! I have also PMed Otter r.e. An issue concerning prescribing as per a post in the baclofen advice thread.

Also as per the advice earlier (this forum has so much experience to share - it's a great resource) I'm staying at 120 mg for a few more days. Probably just as well as I seem to have developed some skin rash issues, which I have read here a few others have experienced. Not that they are problematic.

I am continuing to drink a bottle and a half of wine most evenings. I don't get hangovers as such but I am suffering pretty nasty anxiety til about mid afternoon. It is probably the alcohol rather than the bac or rather a combination.The drinking does cause anxiety I know. The vicious cycle of drinking to relieve anxiety only to suffer worse anxiety when sober the next day, then to drink to deal with that - and round and round it goes- is my long term pattern.But I fancy that the baclofen is adding something else to that cocktail and making it worse. I have read reports of this here and elsewhere too.

I had thought I might try to stop drinking and wait for the 'switch' while sitting it out but I haven't quite got it in me right now. I will keep it as an option though if I can find the right 'window'.

Take care all.

[Molly78]

Thanks for the above Mom. Read with interest! I have also PMed Otter r.e. An issue concerning prescribing as per a post in the baclofen advice thread.

Also as per the advice earlier (this forum has so much experience to share - it's a great resource) I'm staying at 120 mg for a few more days. Probably just as well as I seem to have developed some skin rash issues, which I have read here a few others have experienced. Not that they are problematic.

I am continuing to drink a bottle and a half of wine most evenings. I don't get hangovers as such but I am suffering pretty nasty anxiety til about mid afternoon. It is probably the alcohol rather than the bac or rather a combination.The drinking does cause anxiety I know. The vicious cycle of drinking to relieve anxiety only to suffer worse anxiety when sober the next day, then to drink to deal with that - and round and round it goes- is my long term pattern.But I fancy that the baclofen is adding something else to that cocktail and making it worse. I have read reports of this here and elsewhere too.

I had thought I might try to stop drinking and wait for the 'switch' while sitting it out but I haven't quite got it in me right now. I will keep it as an option though if I can find the right 'window'.

Take care all.

Mentium, I did that - stopped drinking while I increased the dose. This was my 2nd attempt, 2 years ago. I had tried in 2010 when I first read Ameisen's book to do it the other way, drinking while increasing the dose & it didn't work for me.

The 2nd time, the trigger to stop was that I had symptoms which I thought might be due to alcoholic neuropathy, which frightened me. So I stopped drinking & was able to increase the dose fairly quickly. When I was still drinking I found that the SE of the bac were potentiated by the alcohol, plus I kept forgetting whether I had taken the dose or not, taking another, falling asleep instantly, waking in a disorientated state, etc - I'm sure you get the picture. Once I had stopped drinking I was better able to assess my mental sate day by day. My intake was greater than yours & spread throughout the day when not working.

Our situations are not the same, drinking patterns are different (your intake seems very moderate compared to mine & others on this forum!), plus as people keep saying, the baclofen journey is experienced differently by each individual. But I just thought I would add my experience in case it helps.

[Lostinspace]

Mentium - I, too, will chime in on this one. I’ve heard other people mention that getting some time away from drinking can help the bac cement its effects better/more quickly, and that certainly was the case for me. I went up and up in dose, and while my drinking was enormously reduced from what it had been, I wasn’t reaching indifference. In fact, I went up a good 200 mg more from the dose where I started drinking less, and there was no further improvement. I can’t say for sure that going AF is what led the switch to take hold for me. I decided to stop drinking for reasons unrelated to baclofen, but the greatly reduced cravings made that decision to stop doable. Anyway, after going up a mere 35 mg from the dose where I had been stagnant for months on end, I finally reached indifference (I actually went up more than that, but only because I dropped my dose from 325 to 275 mg for a while, so I had to backtrack to where I had been, then soldier up to 360 to find true freedom). As Molly has pointed out, we're all different and each baclofen journey unfolds differently for each of us. But if, and when, you can find it in yourself to take a break from drinking, it’s definitely worth a shot. You'll reach indifference either way, but sometimes getting the alcohol out of your system for a while seems to accelerate the process.

Also, I apologize for not having time to respond sooner to your other post. I’m another one of the people who supplements a legitimate prescription with online orders, and I would say that whether or not you tell your doctor depends entirely on your relationship with the doctor and your comfort level. I know that’s rather vague, but I think it really depends on the person and situation. I know other people here have told their doctors, but I think they were pretty upfront with their doctors from the start (or at least close to the start). I started going up on my own after my doctor refused to prescribe above 160 mg. I’ve been keeping this secret for over a year now and, as much as I would have liked to be open with him, I’ve always been terrified that he will stop prescribing bac to me entirely if he finds out what I’ve been doing. I would definitely get Otter’s take on how Dr. Chick feels about that kind of thing, then decide for yourself what you feel comfortable doing. Good luck!

[Mentium]

Thanks LIS. As I am discovering, every person's experience is different. I definitely would stop now if I could manage to. As you know, willpower doesn't really come into it. I also find myself wondering what it feels like if you are dry and you hit the 'switch'. Is it all that noticeable?

I have no idea if it is significant at this stage but last night I only drank about 2/3 of my usual amount. The amount I drink has been pretty consistent for years so it is a difference. But I could have just been tired as I fell asleep on the sofa and couldn't be bothered to have any more.

Here's hoping, though I am not getting my hopes up yet that this is the beginning of anything.

[Lostinspace]

That certainly sounds significant, Mentium. I would celebrate every little victory along the way And you’re right - I'm painfully aware that willpower doesn’t work for sh*t. I was only able to use willpower once I had gotten up to a pretty significant dose and my cravings were lowered enough that I could harness what little willpower I had. You’re still at a pretty low dose, though, so it's not surprising that you're not there yet - nor do I think you should have to do things the way I did. As you know, most people don’t stop drinking on their way to reaching their switch dose, I just thought I would offer my experience since it’s a little different.

As far as reaching the switch when you’re not drinking being noticeable? It most definitely is, but you grow into that realization, rather than it happening all at once. People who are still drinking will notice a dramatic shift from their usual drinking (and the mindset around that), to suddenly having no real interest in drinking, so they don’t. Titrating up while dry consisted of me going from having daily cravings (again, nowhere near as intense as my cravings were pre-baclofen), to having passing thoughts of “god, I could go for a few (or several) drinks right now,” to all of a sudden realizing that I hadn’t thought about alcohol in days. What’s more is that when I did start thinking about drinking after realizing how absent it had been from my mind, I was completely turned off by the idea. Nowadays, I have a plan of allowing myself to have a drink or two if the occasion calls for it - even if that “occasion” is just wanting to have a couple drinks. But so far no occasion has called for it, and the thought of drinking right now still turns me off, so I go about life without alcohol. I give myself permission to drink whenever I should so choose, but I never want to take myself up on that offer. That’s how I know I’m indifferent. Sorry. That was a lot longer explanation than I thought it would be!

[Spiritfree]

Mentium -thank you for your honesty and your continued support of this forum and its members. Also Ment, I am quite sure that fellow members of this forum will be very happy to know that you have set up another forum for them that deals strictly with Baclofen and support thereof:

Link to new Baclofen forum: Home | Ourwayout

Lost makes some really valuable and important comments in her most recent post to you and it is my hope that others will read what she has written. Lost has certainly been one who has traveled some miles with Baclofen and becoming alcohol free and her reports are significant.

Ment -it has been suggested that I am gung-ho relative to not drinking while taking Baclofen to stop drinking. I do stand guilty of this charge.
Additionally, it has been reported that we are all different and that we all respond differently to Baclofen -in many different ways -and I believe this also to be the truth -beyond one shadow of doubt. There are so many different factors involved in the trying to find the right dosage of Baclofen to take, and if in fact, if Baclofen really is going to be a part of your own solution to your alcohol problem.

The primary reason that I suggest that one stop drinking while taking Baclofen (to stop drinking) is this: if you were taking any other medication to heal yourself from a particular affliction, would you continue doing what you were doing that was causing the affliction?

It has also been suggested that there are many people who can not just simply stop drinking while trying to stop drinking. This is simply not reality. If one should so unfortunately find his or her self incarcerated in jail or incarcerated in a mental health facility (rehab, etc.), they will stop drinking -for a certain period of time. The great news is the fact that there are medications out here, such as Baclofen and Gabapentin, that can actually help re-train the brain and reduce the mental cravings. (If you are incarcerated for three or more days, you will find that the physical cravings go away during that time frame.)

So, the real question still remains; "would you continue doing what you are doing -while taking a medication that helps cure you of your affliction?" Of course, only we individually can answer that question and it also depends on the consequences of our continued drinking. If the consequences have yet to cause extreme pain, then most any alcoholic on earth will continue to drink while hoping and trying for a miraculous solution.

--sf--

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Actually, if someone is diagnosed with diabetes, the doctor certainly does not say, DO NOT EVER EAT SUGAR AGAIN OR YOU WILL BE RIGHT BACK WHERE YOU STARTED!

The doctor says, take your blood glucose and treat it accordingly with the insulin that will help your body normalize itself. Depending on how far along you are with the disease process, you may be able to control it with diet and exercise, eventually. You may be able to control it with just a little insulin. You may need a whole lot of insulin!

And those factors aren't just based on what you weigh. They're not based solely on what you eat, or how much you exercise. There are a whole lot of things that go into how much insulin you may need, and for how long and for how often.

In the meantime, here's a chart to keep track of what you eat and how often you exercise. Keep track of your blood sugar regularly. Then, and only then, can we figure out how best to treat you.

The very last thing a REAL doctor is going to say to you is that in order to get better you must stop what you are doing RIGHT NOW OR ELSE.

Move on Spirit. You still don't get it.

[Mentium]

Spirit, I can only think you don't read other people's posts or you are wilfully ignorant like some sort anti science republican presidential candidate. Possibly you are just stupid I suppose. That might be the obvious but simple truth. Addiction is addiction...is addiction.

[Spiritfree]

Ment -I am just going to have to go with the "I am stupid" comment you made.

I really can not explain my ignorance problem. It seemed to happen once that I got sober. I hope that it does not happen to you -get sober and then get more ignorant.

Mentum- please try and understand one thing; getting sober when you do not have to is not for the faint hearted. It does take courage beyond what u can even understand right now. Keep taking you Baclofen and drinking, talk about the strange side effects that you experience while doing so, and keep reporting your progress. I do not know who makes a better poster child for taking Baclofen for AUD -you or NE. At least you have not been trying to use Baclofen for over 5 years and still drunk -I do not think?

Mentum, when and if u ever do sober up, you will look back and laugh at these silly conversations. You won't even think about your skin rashes or somnolence -you will think about how great it is to be sober and free.

Again, for all of you that have not visited Ment's new Baclofen forum -here is the link.
Home | Ourwayout

It is fantastic that you have active moderators to insure no one expresses their opinions that are in conflict with yours. Perfect. Sign me up.

[Mentium]

You are automatically banned from there. I can tell the difference between honest differences of opinion and troll like language designed to drip innuendo and sarcasm into every sentence. It is quite clear why you are so disliked here.

People come here with a need to be open and expose their vulnerability. I have been here less than a month and all you have done is carp and post sarcastic unhelpful comments and made an enemy of me. Congratulations.. I think we probably need a place where we can be sure you aren't a member.

And if you think you might sneak in and lurk, your posting style and poor English, as well as the rather inept way you express yourself stand out a mile.

[Mentium]

What with the recent dramaz and whatnot I haven't updated my 'journey' for a couple of days.

I'm on 120mg (still!) and trying to be patient as per advice but also experience. I have had periods of weirdness which I am pretty sure are SEs. Slowing down does seem to have reduced them, though the visual flickering thing is back this evening.

I'm drinking less. Not a huge amount less but it is less and may or may not be the baclofen. I don't think I have reached 'indifference' though. I'm pretty sure from what I have read here I would know if I had. There is a bit of an act of faith going on here really. Not something I'm prone to as an atheist and rationalist, all be it with a sense of the mystery of things.

Tomorrow I'll go to 130 I think.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I could have sworn I saw a link to a different forum. Wasn't that here? Would someone direct me.

[Mentium]

SF - I see you have posted here a couple of times. Please be aware that I have not read them and you are on 'ignore' so I suggest you avoid wasting your time by moving your ill intentioned attention elsewhere. I'm not sure how you live with yourself.

[nicnak68]

Just a little update

I went up to 315
Using various different bacs and although I was drinking less it was still up to 2 bottles of wine a day.
Well,I decided to go down and basically start from scratch using just the Mylan that my doctor prescribed and a couple of days after I am only able to drink about 250ml of wine before I want s cup of tea and something sweet (I never usually eat sweet things at all)
Slyhough if I go out I can drink through this but at home I don't want to over drink which although not indifferent I think this is significant.
So not sure wether to go up or down at this point (am on 270mg and my switch first time was 180mg)... Because I don't want to loose this newfound state but 270 seems to be soo much.
Others will disagree but I'm sure it's because of the different Bac I'm using so will look to topping up my script with a large order from Goldpharma of Mylan 25 mg