My baclofen journey

[Mentium]

Well thanks for taking my request (not!) to leave the drama out of this thread. Please remember where I am in all this if you woukd be so kind. It is pretty thoughtless.

Talking of which I'm awake at 4.30 in the morning with a blocked nose and a bit breathless. I normally sleep pretty we'll, so I'm putting this down to baclofen. It's pretty unpleasant.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Terryk's story is an important one, Mentium. It kept me going.

There are two things to learn from Terry's experience. One is that taking a handful of baclofen instead of titrating up is a really bad idea. But it's not just that. He had to titrate up slowly and steadily in order to achieve indifference. Most people would have given up. He didn't. Not only that, he let his big science-y brain take over the lizard one and he went from hospitalization to a regular regimin of baclofen.

Here he is, 5 years later, and he is not an alcoholic anymore.

Now, given that you're struggling with SEs that are making you uncomfortable, I would think that you would find it pretty heartening. It's the rest of the story, too, that helps. He got into the 200s. He stayed there for a while and then very slowly titrated down a very little bit (relatively speaking.)

Contrast that with my story and you will see how to achieve long-lasting indifference with as little heart ache as possible. Because I did it all very differently. I went up and down and all around, before, during and after indifference. I guarantee you that if I had stayed at my maintenance dose of 220mg, I would not have relapsed regardless of the depression and the stress in my life.

One more thing, if you don't want side effects, you're going to have to go slowly. Even then, you may have side effects that you have to manage.

I'm sorry about the lack of sleep. I eventually found 4:30 to be my favorite time of day. I even started to like it when I woke up for a couple of hours in the middle of the night. It's pretty amazing what you can do when the rest of the world is asleep. That said, the best early advice I got was to guard my sleep. So if you can stay in bed, and relax, then by all means, do it. I know it's hard when you wake up with bells on and ready to go! But it can be done.

Gotta run.

PS. I'm REALLY sorry that the troll is such an asshole that he keeps trying to discourage you from the only thing that helped him. I was going to tell you his story, but suffice it to say that he recovered from his own alcoholism with the use of baclofen. And only baclofen. No therapy. No other meds. Nada. How do I know? I know because we had correspondence and because he's posted it here many times. What the hell happened is beyond me, but I think you nailed it with your own suggestion. He's very likely to respond to this post, but like you, I will ignore him completely. Hang in there, Ment.

[terryk]

Well thanks for taking my request (not!) to leave the drama out of this thread. Please remember where I am in all this if you woukd be so kind. It is pretty thoughtless.



Talking of which I'm awake at 4.30 in the morning with a blocked nose and a bit breathless. I normally sleep pretty we'll, so I'm putting this down to baclofen. It's pretty unpleasant.

Mentium, I apologize. I've deleted my reply in this thread and moved it to: https://www.mywayout.org/community/me...ml#post1647685.



I'm sorry that you are having breathing difficulties - nasal irrigation with a neti pot worked well for me (and still does) - and baclofen will slow down your respiration rate a bit, which can be quite disconcerting at night. It's normal and one of the most common side-effects along with daytime somnolence. The good news is, that once you get acclimated at a stable dose (reaching indifference or a maintenance) it resolves itself (like most of the side-effects) in the majority of cases.



-tk

[Mentium]

Thank you Terry. Your posts and your story are hugely helpful. I am up and down with side effects. One day I feel as if I am free of them and the next I seem to be all over the place. Your post about them really helped, though a couple that I seem to have had and several people here (e.g.snapping sensations in my hands and visual disturbances) aren't listed. I have had several of them so far, including, I realise depression.

But I digress. A big thank you for all the support you provide for newcomers like me.

[terryk]

Here's a quote from my 1 year anniversary - I definitely experienced both of those things:

Increasing 20mg/week was too rapid for me and I settled closer to 10mg/week, and even then, day 2 after the increase was always a doozy, with intense hallucinations and shocks to my hands/fingers.

For me, the depression appeared at around 150mg/day. It wasn't constant, but came on as a funk around early afternoon (almost like clockwork) for about a month. Looking back, I can tell it was purely "chemical" and not "situational" and may have had something to do with the way I was loading my doses on an uneven schedule. Thankfully that too went away, and has never returned. Thank you for the kind words - I'm always here to help out in a pinch.

-tk

[nicnak68]

Mentium
I have what I think is sleep apnea from Bac and my snoring is terrible so im told.
I have a Bac cough that really gets to the back of my throat and a runny nose,oh and if I itch the inside of my ear it starts my coughing off.These SEs have come and gone as I've gone up and down

[Spiritfree]

Terryk's story is an important one, Mentium. It kept me going.

PS. I'm REALLY sorry that the troll is such an asshole that he keeps trying to discourage you from the only thing that helped him. I was going to tell you his story, but suffice it to say that he recovered from his own alcoholism with the use of baclofen. And only baclofen. No therapy. No other meds. Nada. How do I know? I know because we had correspondence and because he's posted it here many times. What the hell happened is beyond me, but I think you nailed it with your own suggestion. He's very likely to respond to this post, but like you, I will ignore him completely. Hang in there, Ment.

Ment and others: I am called a 'troll' because I bring to light a very important thread with honest feedback from TK regarding Baclofen. I benefited greatly from his thread early on in my Baclofen journey. I have used this information in TK's thread in the past to point out the fact that serious harm can come to someone who takes Baclofen in a certain way/manner. It is not even important 'the how much' or otherwise. It is simply important to know that Baclofen can cause serious problems to some who take it. The thread also shows how someone who is persistent and courageous enough to continue taking Baclofen can eventually end up alcohol free.

You do not typically read where TK advises one to take more or less Baclofen to any certain individual. He/she will however report findings in studies that show that HDB has proven helpful to many (some).

Ne, please quit mentioning me in your posts and then saying that you will not respond to me should I reply. What in the world are you trying to do or prove?


--sf--

[Mentium]

Well here we are at day three of 140 mg. I have to say I feel a bit of an inconsistent fraud! Which is to say that one day I seem to be saying that I am free of side effects and the next I am inundated with them. Yesterday was one of the second kind unfortunately. The list of side effects I get when I do seem to get them include hand 'shocks', a severe blocked nose, visual disturbances aches and pains and yesterday an occasional very brief auditory experience – like a distant booming sound, reminiscent of the visual thing only auditory (obviously). None of these are particularly alarming or disturbing and I list them only for people who might come new to this site and might be looking for examples of other people's experience. Not that there aren't plenty of others here, but as is so often said, everyone's experience of slowly increasing their baclofen dose is different.

The worst side effect though is something I only realised yesterday I think and that is something psychological and that is akin, though not exactly quite like depression. It is rather worse as a kind of gloomy nihilism descends upon me where everything takes on its most negative aspect, from the unhappy looking people on the street to birds, flying around in the grey skies, struggling and on the cusp of survival as they search with all their might for a scrap of food. It really is that bad.

This isn't something I can tolerate for too many months I fear. I have a mental upper limit for baclofen which, should I reach it I will have to consider how much further I am willing to go.

On the plus side, you may be pleased to know, that gloom seems to have lifted, along with most of the other Ses today. It seems they are at their worst when I up the dose. So as ever it seems, the advice from here and other people who have done this, is to take it slowly and steadily. So I will, I think, stay at 140 for a couple more days.

Also on the plus side, my experience of drinking is definitely changing. It still relaxes me but the euphoria is definitely much reduced and it does feel somehow qualitatively different these last few days. Here's hoping it is the start of a big change.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Eek. That's a whole boatload of SEs, Mentium. Sorry.

Glad you're feeling better today.

[Molly78]

Mentium, I'm interested in your auditory SE, as I have something similar. People mention tinnitus as a SE, but mine isn't exactly that, it's a sort of rushing noise coming in pulses, a bit like hearing your own heart beat, except it doesn't synchronise with that. I have this each time I up the dose too fast, or if I do drink alcohol with the bac. In fact it was my main indicator for a while that the bac I was buying online was genuine! It's a bit unpleasant, but not unbearable.

Sorry if others have already posted about this, someone will be along in a minute to tell me there is already a thread about it!

[Mentium]

My SEs do seem to be at their most intense just after I take the next step up too. The 'sound' is more like an auditory hallucination - to me it is like a distant thump noise, almost like an explosion far away. It makes me realise, along with some of the other SEs that have been reported, that not as much is known about them as the studies would indicate. Nothing, for anyone who is considering starting down this road, that feels at all dangerous or even scary (except perhaps the depression I mentioned earlier).

I have had much reduced SE experiences today. Will stick on this dose for another day before I go up to 150 I think.

[Mentium]

I had a bad night last night. I'm experiencing all sorts of alarming pains in my limbs and body almost making me wonder if I am ill with something dreadful, but I'm sure it is the baclofen. My breathing was laboured too, not just a blocked nose but I felt I couldn't quite get a fully satisfying breath. I had a rushing sensation in my ears too. All side effects I have read about. I woke after about four hours sleep and I lay awake in a funk for the rest of the night, except for perhaps the most vivid period of dreaming I can remember shortly before getting up time involving a landscape of sea anemones blowing in the wind, large dogs the size of horses and women dressed in surreal versions of 17th century Dutch clothing. I was utterly sure it was real. Very weird and not quite relevant to the rest of this post.

As I've said in another thread I'm not sure I can do the baclofen thing at the moment. I feel something like panic thinking about going higher and only a bit less at having to go down so slowly. I feel trapped by it and almost claustrophobic. The depression is very stark right now too.

I think I probably need to dry out for at least a few days if I can manage it. The effects of alcohol are only adding to the sense that I am not quite my usual self at the moment. I hate all this complaining for a start. Not like me at all. Honest!

At least I have a place to vent. And as also mentioned in the other thread, there's the possibility of a SMART support group not too far away.

[Mom21961]

Mentium... I replied to your other comment, but after reading this I would also suggest going down a bit in dosage until things calm down. Maybe 10 mg down? I hate that shortness of breath. That is the one thing that has made me go back down on dosage until it subsides. I've also gone to a 5x a day schedule but I'm probably crazy

[Spiritfree]

I had a bad night last night. I'm experiencing all sorts of alarming pains in my limbs and body almost making me wonder if I am ill with something dreadful, but I'm sure it is the baclofen. My breathing was laboured too, not just a blocked nose but I felt I couldn't quite get a fully satisfying breath. I had a rushing sensation in my ears too. All side effects I have read about. I woke after about four hours sleep and I lay awake in a funk for the rest of the night, except for perhaps the most vivid period of dreaming I can remember shortly before getting up time involving a landscape of sea anemones blowing in the wind, large dogs the size of horses and women dressed in surreal versions of 17th century Dutch clothing. I was utterly sure it was real. Very weird and not quite relevant to the rest of this post.

As I've said in another thread I'm not sure I can do the baclofen thing at the moment. I feel something like panic thinking about going higher and only a bit less at having to go down so slowly. I feel trapped by it and almost claustrophobic. The depression is very stark right now too.
I think I probably need to dry out for at least a few days if I can manage it. The effects of alcohol are only adding to the sense that I am not quite my usual self at the moment. I hate all this complaining for a start. Not like me at all. Honest!
At least I have a place to vent. And as also mentioned in the other thread, there's the possibility of a SMART support group not too far away.

Mentium -Regardless of what you think about me or opinions is not what is important.
(1) Do you have a prescribing doctor (Baclofen)? Hopefully you do and you can discuss these details with he/she. This is VERY important -critical.
(2) Ment -you can stop drinking for a few days -heck, just reading how persistent you are with your posts (Baclofen/me) shows that you have what it takes to stop -at least for one day possibly followed by another.
(3) Ment -if you decide to stop drinking (taking Baclofen or not), you are never again going to 'FEEL' like your normal self again. You will eventually create a new normal that is better than you can even possibly imagine right now.

Mentium -from what I read in your posts, you are trying to do this on your "own" so to speak. Certainly, all the information relative to Baclofen on this site is helpful and even the interaction with others on here (excluding me) is beneficial, but Ment, you just can not beat face to face interactions with others -especially that know what you are going through. Your medical doctor and group support programs are usually crucial to a successful outcome.

--sf--

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I actually really miss those baclofen dreams. Except the ones where I woke up thinking I'd had an actual conversation with someone. That can be very confusing for all involved.

Anyway. The breathing thing is terrifying. And I agree with Mom, that going down to 130mg might be just the ticket. At least it will give you some room to (literally) breath.

I was never able to really abstain when I was titrating up, but taking it down a notch or two may make a big difference in the depression. It's hard to say. I remember being down when I was tired. So in the beginning of the day, I was fine and even confident. By the end of the workday, though, I was often feeling insecure and overwhelmed, as though nothing could ever really help me.

If that's the way you're feeling, or something similar, please remind yourself that it just isn't true. Baclofen isn't the only way to sobriety, but it is the only thing that does what it does. That said, it's just a tool like any other.

Also, do you have a doctor's support for this? I can't remember. If you do, then it would be a good time to call him/her and get something to help you sleep and maybe even an anti-anxiety med. I REALLY wish I had done that when I was titrating up. I refused to take so much as an aspirin because I was so superstitious about it all. But I've seen people, with help and meds from their doctors, titrate up without so much as a hiccup. I know now that I didn't have to have it so hard. (And trust me when I tell you that I really suffered when I was titrating up. It was TERRIBLE. Bleep once said that he would give baclofen to his best friend, but he wouldn't give it to his worst enemy. I agree, completely.)

The thing is, though, it works. Really and truly. So hang in, let your SEs settle down, and then you can decide with a rational brain. It's too hard to think rationally when you're frightened.