A request: your experience of 'indifference'.

[Mentium]

I'm titrating up and I'm currently at 100 mg a day. I've read Ameisen's book , participated here for a few weeks and frankly decided to go with baclofen at least in part on the basis of hope, faith and perhaps desperation.

The notion of 'indifference' still feels distant and frankly almost implausible from where I am right now, still drinking, still dependent and still addicted. It would help me and perhaps others, newly travelling this path, if those of you who have gone before us could find the time to tell us how it happened for you, what it felt like and how, despite it feeling so extraordinary to the likes of me at this point, it actually worked. I would also be very interested in what you did, in terms of your recovery, once you achieved 'indifference'.

Thanks in anticipation.

[kronkcarr]

I went up very slowly on bac because my dr wouldn't prescribe above 80 mgs. Previous to bac I drank 3/4 to over a bottle of wine alone at night and drank before going to parties or gatherings and then over drank once I got there.

I remember one night when I dropped my son at his Dad's house. My routine was to drop him and stop for alcohol for the night. I did not drink at home as I was titrating up. I thought I'd lose my mind as I drove past the store and came home. I SO didn't want to drink and I so wanted to drink. I wrote and cried and didn't drink. This wasn't indifference.

For me indifference just snuck up. And I agree with Fred that there's physical indifference and there's breaking a habit. At indifference I can share drinks with friends or not, I don't drink much at home. I'm still amazed that I just don't care either way about alcohol now.

About a year and a half ago I went on vacation and had drinks each day but not to excess. When I came home I had no desire for drinks.

I'm a runner and have spent a few months rehabbing and yesterday I was to run 16 miles. I'd done 10 the week before and I was scared I wouldn't be able to do 16. I packed my cooler with water, Coke and 1 beer as my after drink. It was hot and a tough run but I did it. I had no desire to drink that beer!

[_serenity_]

Mine was sudden, unexpected and staggeringly definitive. One day I could drink four beers and the next day I could barely choke down two. And those two beers tasted horrible. The day after I drank those two beers I had a raging hangover and the thought of drinking made me want to vomit. I knew then that I had hit my switch. My switch post is in the Sweet Success thread.

[Stevo]

My story is different to most,I had been abstinent via white knuckling 12 step fellowship conditioning for about a year when I started taking bac.
I suspected I had become indifferent when I was walking around an AL emporium looking to buy AL to do my drinking experiment and I couldn't find a good reason to actually make a purchase,so I didn't.
I did the drinking experiment a couple of weeks later and knew I was indifferent as I could not bring myself to drink like I used to.

For me this was extremely liberating.

The hangovers I get these days if I have had too much are horrendous and as Fred said can leave me knocked about for 3 days too.
I couldn't agree more that I too see this as a good thing.

[nicnak68]

Although I'm drinking now because of titrating down too much I became indifferent in sept after just 16 days and it was almost instant.One day I drank 3 bottles of wine and by the next evening after work I knew I didn't want to drink and had 16 days without touching a drop and no withdrawals at all.My switch was at 180mg but now currently on 270 and as yet not indifferent but will continue to titrate up as l KNOW it works

[Molly78]

"There's physical indifference and there's breaking a habit" - absolutely spot on. My problem exactly & I have 3 decades of habit under my belt.

I also had the sensation of wine tasting horrible, but I still need to avoid spirits which can be so well disguised in alcopop combinations, & also the sweet sticky drinks like Bailey's which come out at Christmas. Those go down very easily. That said - why not at Christmas? This is the big plus with bac. You don't have to completely AF unless you want to be.

[Lostinspace]

My story is a little different because I had decided before reaching indifference that I wanted to stop drinking entirely. Thanks to bac, my cravings had been reduced enough at that point that I could do it. So I kept going up in dose and one day reached a point where I realized that I hadn’t even thought about drinking in days, then when I did it wasn’t appealing in the least. I probably will, at some point in the future, have a glass of wine or a beer, depending on the occasion, but for now I see no reason to drink. I just don’t want to. It’s hugely liberating.

[neophyte]

I would describe my indifference like this. I'm not AF, ill have a glass or two of wine but generally once I consume enough alcohol to produce physical effects I don't experience the euphoria I did before baclofen, maybe only a little. If i continue to drink I'll just feel like crap and the alcohol just doesnt have the same allure. Alcohol isn't in my head constantly anymore either. The experience isn't easy to articulate, but i suppose you have a relationship with alcohol that was more like before you became an addict.

Now that I've lowered my dose from 300 to 200, the cravings have returned and so has the euphoria and subsequently the drinking. Though all 3 of those are much reduced and I have commenced increasing the dose, probably back up to 250, then go back down to 225 which seems to be my maintenance dose.

I'm envious of all those people who switch at low doses :P

[Mentium]

Your post leaves me wondering what 'indifference' is and whether baclofen does what I assume it does. I'm not being critical - just curious, but if one continues to drink then what exactly is the state of 'indifference' about? Are you sure you reached it?

I'm a bit puzzled.

Also r.e. the 'too much going on' - I am retired (early!) and I usually faff around on my computer until 8.30 or 9.00 and then turn on the TV and crack open the wine. My pattern for years. I'm wondering quite how to break that cycle - my problem of course, but thoughts welcome.

Another thing to add, and this happened to me twice- is that it's possible to drink your way through your switch and lose it. After being indifferent I thought drinking 3 beers a night instead of 6 was a major accomplishment. What ended up happening was that it eroded my switch such that going overboard more than a few times in a week put me right back to square one and I had to go up again.

Probably the best indicator that you're doing it right is that you have too much else going on to fit in time for being drunk or hung over. This is much more productive and enriching than counting drinks. I no longer think that drinking every night or even a few nights a week is acceptable given what else id miss out on.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

You know what I love most about this thread? There are all kinds of drinkers here, from the hard-core, never sober to the not-so-hard-core to the sober for a year. (And I remember when every single one of you started. )

The stories of indifference are generally the same, aren't they? Sudden, or sneaky, we just stopped wanting to drink to drunkenness.

Mine's on the success thread, but I'll do the brief version here.

I was a wine drinker and when wine started to taste terrible I switched over to beer. We didn't keep any in the house at that point, so I generally stopped at 7-11 on the way home from work. That night, a Friday, Feb. 4, 2011. The weather was terrible. I had an awful day and I was exhausted. All of those things, the fact that it was a Friday, the weather, the awful day and the fact that I was tired, would normally be reasons to drink a whole lot!

I was barely drinking, anyway. So I decided to skip the stop at 7-11. I comforted myself with the thought that I had until midnight to get something if I changed my mind. But I didn't. I went home and cleaned my house. I was vacuuming when I got my first ever phone call from a MWOer. She was drunk. I was thrilled to talk to her, but soon very discouraged because she was so drunk and kept repeating herself. It made it so much more thrilling, though, (once I was finally able to get off the phone) that I was sober and so damn happy about it!

The next day was much the same. My normal routine on the weekends was to start drinking at noon-ish. I didn't want a drink. I waited 6 days before I announced it on here because I was superstitious that it was just a trick or something.

For the next 3 1/2 years I drank when I wanted and how I wanted and how much I wanted. (Not often, really good wine, and not much.) I even went to wine country in California for 5 days and never got drunk, though we had wine tastings every day and with every meal. Even with breakfast on one notable occasion. By the last night, I was so tired of rich food and wine, I ordered a salad and a fruity alcoholic drink. (You know, Napa style. All fresh fruits you've never heard of with some sort of herb-infused vodka or something for $15.) I couldn't touch it. I drank water and ate my salad.

My switch was at 320mg. My maintenance at ~220mg. From January 2014 to about August 2014, I titrated down to 80mg. By December I was drinking alcoholically again. Don't do that to yourselves! Ha!

Thanks so much for asking, Mentium.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

By the way, my husband was still drinking alcoholically and after I reached indifference, he started keeping beer and wine in the house again. So it was always available. And he drank to drunkenness every single night. I still didn't want to drink. If anything, it made it less appealing.

And yes, he finally started baclofen. Reached indifference 3 months later, much the same as I did, and we're still together and happy about it.

[kronkcarr]

Your post leaves me wondering what 'indifference' is and whether baclofen does what I assume it does. I'm not being critical - just curious, but if one continues to drink then what exactly is the state of 'indifference' about? Are you sure you reached it?

I'm a bit puzzled.

Also r.e. the 'too much going on' - I am retired (early!) and I usually faff around on my computer until 8.30 or 9.00 and then turn on the TV and crack open the wine. My pattern for years. I'm wondering quite how to break that cycle - my problem of course, but thoughts welcome.

Hi,

I know you were asking Fred but I thought I'd jump in. As it's been said here some of us do choose to drink after indifference. I will share a toast with friends or have a mimosa with a special brunch. I don't drink to excess and I don't drink daily or even weekly.

I remember asking Cass why I didn't get giggly happy drunk on bac. He didn't have an answer for me but I realized that if I over drank I didn't get a buzz and I did get the awful hangover that others have mentioned. I do think if I didn't have myself together (work, home life, sleep, exercise, diet and hobbies) and I chose to go back to drinking a bottle of wine a night I could be back where I was and then have to start all over again.

I think it would help you if you switched up your routine at night. I know folks who have gotten a hobby in order to do something different to break their drinking routine. Keep us posted.

[Molly78]

I was thinking about your routine as well. Sitting down in front of the TV=pour a glass of wine. This is really difficult to break. Could you watch TV by day & then read at night? Finding an activity that starts at 9pm would be hard, but maybe think about moving your day around?

My routine was the reward drink at the end of a working day, continuing on with more drinks & more & not bothering to eat...... Oddly I found for a while it was better to work late, come home, eat IMMEDIATELY (the urge to drink diminishes a lot for me with a full stomach) & actually I am still doing that on working days. Previously the urge to drink would make me accelerate at the end of the day & get very frustrated with hold ups, as for traffic delays I was the most bad tempered driver on the road if some idiot kept me from my wine.

Currently, even days off are fine, I just get busy & time goes. Just as well, as I will be retiring completely in 2 years & it's very important I reach complete indifference by then. It must be hard for you to be completely retired.

[nicnak68]

For me I was drinking whenever I could....ie not working and not having to drive.So if I woke up in the morning and there was wine left from the night before I would have a glass or 2 and always counting units and when it was ok to drive.Although I reached indifference for 16 days as you know I'm drinking again and up to 300mg but I'm not indifferent but I'm not drinking like I was and the thought of drinking with breakfast makes me feel ill

[Molly78]

Nic! You are making progress! That's the first post of your that suggests you're feeling some benefit - the urge to drink in the morning has gone. Things can only get better.