Reaching indifference on Baclofen and going AF. Be careful!!

[Mom21961]

Hello all,

Sorry... This will be very long, but here is my cautionary tale.

You may be more educated than I am about alchohol withdrawal symptoms, but suffice it to say, I was clueless. My alcohol consumption was drastically reduced as I ramped up on Baclofen, but it varied due to what was going on in my life. During super stressful times, I would consume more of my old crutch, even if it didn't really help. Old habits I guess. Then at 250mg I began to feel indifference, so I quit drinking. Two days later, instead of going to bed, I started pacing the floor ALL night long. I felt clumsy, was dropping things, slamming doors as I passed through different rooms, even fell over a time or two. I started feeling better come morning, so got some sleep, but still felt like my brain wasn't working. I put this all down to having taken Coriciden D for the first time and even called my pharmacist who confirmed it affected people some people this way. Duh. So I continued to have insomnia and none of my regular things seemed to work, so although I wasn't drinking during the day, I was at night to try and sleep. This went on for a week until I realized that this was just stupid and I had to get off the AL. So, I quit again. OMG! A day later, I paced the house for 20 hours straight and thought I was losing my mind. I won't go into the gory details, but my dh finally dragged me off to the emergency room. I told them I had recently quit drinking and they said that explained it and dosed me up on Ativan where I promptly fell asleep. 8 hours later I woke up in the hospital to a nurse telling me how it's good that this happened so now I would have to tell work and they would have all kind of treatment options and wouldn't be able to fire me. WHAT?? I have been a super high functioning alcoholic for a very long time with a high level job and was certainly NOT telling work. By the time I realized she couldn't tell anyone anything, I had already taken off all my leads and was ready to high tail it out of there. She asked me to wait to talk to my doc, which I agreed, but then the Dh comes in and tells me he knew someone that was committed for detox, so I pulled out the IV and headed out the door. This I don't recommend.

I called my doc after I left the hospital, confessed all, and she agreed to treat me at home with the Ativan while I got through withdrawal. I went to meet with her PA this week who knew all about Baclofen, but couldn't prescribe more than 120 mg. She would be willing to go that high, plus added Gabapentin to the mix . Yay! Unreal. She was freaked out when she found out I was getting Bac from overseas so is making me come in for monthly tests to make sure there was nothing extra in my system, including alcohol. No problem, I dont abuse anything else, but I don't think she believed me when I said you couldn't get any controlled substances.

So all's well that ends well I guess, but if you've been abusing high levels of alcohol for a very long time, be careful! You may want to consider titrating down off the AL slowly rather than quiting cold turkey, no matter when you quit... before, during, or after your Bac journey to indifference. I'm continuing to ramp up to 275 to be on the safe side, but so far, so good. Good luck everyone!

[dundrinkn]

Wow. That's quite an ordeal. Glad it worked out and you're doing ok. That is good info to have on the AL withdrawal. I have often wondered during the many times I have started and stopped if I wasn't experiencing increased withdrawal symptoms after each round of drinking.

[Molly78]

I think the other problem might be that alcohol potentiates the effect of baclofen, so not only were you getting alcohol withdrawal symptoms, you were probably getting baclofen withdrawal symptoms as well!

(Someone will be along shortly to dispute that statement, but I think the pharmacology behind it is sound.)

I'm glad you're OK.

[Lostinspace]

Mom - I’m really sorry you had to go through that. Thanks for the cautionary tale, though. It’s good to see different people’s experiences to see how very different we all are. I’ve suffered pretty severe withdrawal in the past (seizures, DT’s, etc.), but by the time I stopped drinking on baclofen, I was down to less than 20% of what I used to drink, and I had no trouble stopping on the spot. But perhaps someone else, with a slightly different physiology than me, wouldn’t have been so lucky. I guess we should always warn people to be on the lookout for withdrawal symptoms no matter how much they’ve cut back. In any case, I’m glad to hear that something very good came out of this experience. Congratulations on reaching indifference! I'm glad you're doing OK now.

[Spiritfree]

Great post Mom2-3: If a person is a 'heavy' drinker, always seek formal medical advice/help when abruptly stopping alcohol use -and especially when taking other medications.

[Spellers]

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[Spellers]

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[Mom21961]

I don't think it is the alcohol withdrawal, but rather it is directly related to baclofen. After all, I had it on the first night I went to 225, and had had a few beers that day. It was the next day I gave up alcohol - the increase of 25 had brought about the switch. .

I don't think that was true for me. I had reached my switch dose a week prior but was continuing to drink at night because of insomnia. Then I quit. My symptoms were pretty classic alcohol withdrawal. I've since gone up another 25 mg to be safe with no return of the symptoms.

The one period of AF days I had last year, I was taking all the nutritional supplements recommended in RJs book. I think they may have helped. If I was to do it all over again, I would have reintroduced the supplements, and titrated the alcohol down more intentionally over a longer period of time. I also think the multiple quits in a short period of time exacerbated the symptoms (noted in Dundrinkn's post.)

M

[knobert]

Hi Mom

I'm still pretty crippled up from my accident and sitting is still very painful.
As a result, I was absent a long time and am slowly trying to catch up, but I still can't sit for very long without my back totally locking up.

Reaching indifference on Baclofen and going AF. Be careful!!
... I put this all down to having taken Coriciden D for the first time and even called my pharmacist who confirmed it affected people some people this way. Duh. So I continued to have insomnia and none of my regular things seemed to work, so although I wasn't drinking during the day, I was at night to try and sleep. This went on for a week until I realized that this was just stupid and I had to get off the AL. So, I quit again. OMG! A day later, I paced the house for 20 hours straight and thought I was losing my mind
... By the time I realized she couldn't tell anyone anything, I had already taken off all my leads and was ready to high tail it out of there. She asked me to wait to talk to my doc, which I agreed, but then the Dh comes in and tells me he knew someone that was committed for detox, so I pulled out the IV and headed out the door. This I don't recommend.
... doc...agreed to treat me at home with the Ativan while I got through withdrawal. I went to meet with her PA this week who knew all about Baclofen, but couldn't prescribe more than 120 mg. She would be willing to go that high, plus added Gabapentin to the mix . Yay! Unreal.

Wow.

I'm glad your dh took you to the ER. I don't know him but I like him already.
Antihistamines affect me. My windpipe gets like a burning sensation when I breath and I feel "tweaky".(very nervous and edgy, like I've drank too much coffee, only different.)
You were definitely going through withdrawls. I have gone through withdrawals cold turkey 3 times with no medical support.. The worst one lasted 12 days. Totally an anxious, nervous wreck. Pacing constantly. The longer it went on the more panicky I became. My blood pressure going up and down like a yoyo. Heart racing. Very weak. Little or no sleep. It was terrible and I wondered if it would ever end.
Alcohol withdrawals are the most dangerous. It is rare for someone to die from hard drug withdrawals, but the mortality rate for severe alcohol withdrawals, especially if you're older, some data studies have shown can approach 20%! Usually by heart attack or stroke.
The Dr. gave you Lorazepam.(Ativan is a brand name). It's a pretty potent benzodiazepine with a half life of 10-20 hrs. They definitely take the edge off withdrawal but leave you in a dull, foggy state, which is welcome after experiencing severe withdrawals. How long did she keep you on Ativan?

Your dh told you about someone who was committed for detox.
The only time I was hospitalized for AUD, I was so sick and withdrawing so bad I thought I was going to die. I asked to be taken to the hospital.
It was quite an ordeal that I would be happy to share with everyone, but it's quite a story.
Anyway, after I started to feel better, I told the Dr. I would like to go home now. He said I could not. I asked what if I just get dressed and leave? He said, "Then we would just have to come and get you."
I like your dh.

So did you just drop your Baclofen down to 120 when you got home and are escalating up from there? Is everything still going well? How much Gabapentin did she prescribe? How is it going now?

Anyway, I'm so glad you're OK!
I've gotta get up now before I can't. Man, I sure heal slower than I used to.

Take care
Talk to you soon
Knobert :thumbsup:

[Mom21961]

Hi Knobert.

So glad to see you're back, though sorry you're still in so much pain! I reached my indifference at 250 mg but went up to 275 for good measure. I'm going to stay here for awhile but the extra 120 from my doc sure helps with the cost. She knows how much I'm taking. Those pharmacies are really taking it to us since I only pay pennies for the 'real' stuff.

My doc gave me 15 Ativan. I took one before bed and then another if I started doing the pacing thing.in the middle of the night. That got better though pretty quickly though. I guess I'll need to start researching how long to stay at this dose before titrating down, but no plans for a long while.

She gave me 300 mg Gabapentin 3x a day, but I just take 2 before bed because it makes me drowsy. She gave it to me to stop cravings, but I don't need it for that since the Bac does its job so I don't know if I'll continue once the sleep evens out.

I was also thankful for my dh making me go to the ER. I really thought I was losing my mind. But Atavin really helped a lot.

You need some of that voice recognition software so that you can speak and it types for you. My one doctor uses it all the time . I'll have to find a good one for you.

Thanks again,

M

[knobert]

Hi Mom

So glad things are going well. Benzos are what they give you to take the edge off withdrawals. They work pretty well. My Dr. prescribed Alprazolam for me a couple times(another Benzo) for withdrawals when I was trying to quit on my own before I knew about Baclofen. Once for a week and another time for 3 days. They usually wean you off it. You know like from 2 to 1 1/2 to 1 to 1/2 to none so you might want to check with your Dr. to see what she says.

Yeah, I know what you mean about the price. I have a $5 co-pay on my insurance for generic prescriptions. My Rx is 80 mgs /day for 30 days(2400 mgs) for $5. I used to order 15,000 mgs at a time. At my Rx rate, 15,000 mgs would only cost me $31.25! But without insurance, it would be a lot higher. I asked my pharmacy what it would cost without insurance. I can't remember what it was, but it was higher than my mail order.

I agree with you about the Gabapentin if you aren't having cravings. It can have side effects of it's own. Also, they wean you off of that one too, so talk to your Dr.. Also, for sleep, you can always go back to your calms forte and melatonin if it continues to be a problem.

I'm so happy for you.. It sounds like your situation is so much better now. I'll bet your stress level is a lot lower.

Good for you!
Talk to you later
Knobert :thumbsup:

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Mom, sorry I haven't responded directly to this thread. Sounds like you had a really rough go of it. I CANNOT BELIEVE what the nurse said to you. That is so messed up. Glad you got out, honestly, just in case they decided to make things really uncomfortable. (Though, by law, you cannot commit someone unless they're a threat to themselves or others. Let's all remember that, just in case someone out there is thinking of seeking medical help. Let's also remember that it is absolutely and completely confidential. And most nurses aren't assholes. Just wanted to point that out.)



Sounds like your PA is almost as fantastic as mine. (Her limit is 220, I think.)



Benzos are incredibly useful tools and I hate that they have such a bad rap. I mean, you don't want to take 'em forever, and you don't want to think of them as anything other than tools, but they are really, really helpful for people who suffer from addiction. I have a prescription for a PRN benzo, that my pDoc prescribed and we both keep an eye on how and when I use them. Her recommendation is not to use them more than 3 days in a row, or 4 days in a week, not more than a certain amount a day.



When I first started taking it when I was having panic and anxiety that was ruthless it was for 10 days. She said she never prescribes them for people with addiction disorders for longer than 2 weeks...



I hope that's useful info for someone!



It sounds like you're doing really well and I'm very happy for you. Smart thinking about staying at or near your switch dose, too. As you know, I can tell you first hand not to mess around with that.



Knobert, so glad you're bac(k) and so sorry about your accident. It was a ladder? Let me tell you, when I took the Emergency Medical Tech class, thinking I wanted to be an EMT, I earned a fear of ladders. Turns out they're particularly dangerous tools and especially for people over a certain age. Who knew?



Hope you're healing and feeling much better.