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    Long term efficacy of Sinclair Method

    I did some research on the long term success of the Sinclair Method which uses naltrexone or nalmafene to extinguish alcohol addiction. The TSM people boast of a 78% success rate but the study I found shows that this figure represents the number of people who reduce their drinking to about 10 units a week. Here is the study: Evidence about the use of naltrexone and for different ways of using it in the treatment of alcoholism | Alcohol and Alcoholism



    The study shows some interesting facets of this treatment. For instance, the treatment must be taken with alcohol. If it is not, then it is no more effective than placebo. While on the treatment, the effects of Nal make alcohol intoxication worse, so if anyone takes this treatment, they should be warned that they could end up feeling more drunk and getting into worse problems related to intoxication than if they only drank.



    Then there is the question of long term benefits. Only 26 percent of people on this treatment achieved sobriety. That's nothing to sneeze at but my concern, I have to say, is that this drug is for people who are able to regulate their behaviour and take a pill with them everywhere they go and take it at a specific time before they have a drink. In my mind, this sort of drinker is not an "alcoholic". For me, that ends this debate about the drug. Alcoholism as a disease is something which is out of control, something over which one cannot exercise one's own will power. TSM depends on the exercise of will power so by definition, it excludes people who are ill from alcohol abuse from it's statistics...because those people can't engage in the treatment.



    Moving on, the study shows that rats who were given Nal relapsed to heaving drinking because they "relearned" the behaviour that led to heavy drinking. I may be wrong but this suggests to me that they are no "relearning" but that their brains have experienced regrowth of the pleasure receptors which the Nal extinguished.



    My feeling about this treatment is that it is going to become very popular among people who aren't actually clinically suffering from AUD but who want to cut back on their drinking and in some cases abstain. The problem with it is that it has risks, cannot be combined, so it seems with abstinence and involves continued drinking while under treatment and that the treatment itself can contribute to worsened drunkenness and the problems that flow from that. In addition, unless it is paid for by insurance or government health care, it is much more expensive than baclofen.



    I have a couple of big problems, myself, with this treatment. I have bought Nal for my wife and it made her so bad that she accused me of trying to poison her and called the police. The other problem is that for those alcoholics who drink a liter of spirits a day or more, it is not a viable treatment at all because they just are too far gone.



    I've always said this about this forum. This is not a forum which is representative of the full spectrum of alcoholics because those suffering most from the illness dont' have computers... or jobs, or the ability to engage in forums like this... Which is perhaps why I come across as so heavily in favour of baclofen, because it works in the worst cases and also because the theory which Ameisen sets out actually shows what alcoholic craving is. For me, Nal use shows that there is a neurological mechanism called extinction in cases where an opiate antagonist is used while consuming alcohol. That is a very different issue from what the cause of addictive behaviour in alcoholism is. Yes, if you deaden the brain's Gaba A pleasure receptors while drinking, you get less pleasure from it until you don't get a kick from it. But...what about people who have a disorder of the Gabab receptors and can't stop drinking. These people, the truly ill alcoholics who are too ill to follow TSM and are ACTUALLY ILL are weeded out of the statistics for this treatment BECAUSE they are ill from alcoholism. Those who are included in the statistics for TSM success are there because it is very easy to use the term "alcoholism" loosely to apply to people who aren't actually ill from AUD.
    BACLOFENISTA

    baclofenuk.com

    http://www.theendofmyaddiction.org





    Olivier Ameisen

    In addiction, suppression of symptoms should suppress the disease altogether since addiction is, as he observed, a "symptom-driven disease". Of all "anticraving medications used in animals, only one - baclofen - has the unique property of suppressing the motivation to consume cocaine, heroin, alcohol, nicotine and d-amphetamine"

    #2
    I would also add that unless you get the naltrexone implant, the pills have a short half life, many alcoholics end up playing games with the pills, if you dont take the pills for a day or two you can get the euphoria back. I've read of people doing this on reddit. That said this treatment is better than nothing but I don't like how it seems to be the go to medical treatment to deal with cravings and baclofen is still not on the radar to the same scale as naltrexone to treat alcoholism which as we all know here, works much better, you can't play games with the doses since it takes weeks/months to taper off baclofen.
    01-01-2014 - Indifference reached, success with high dose Baclofen 295mg.

    Baclofen prescribing guide

    Baclofen for alcoholism - Consolidated Information - Studies, prescribing guides, links

    Comment


      #3
      In all seriousness, what I can't understand about the Sinclair Method is this: If taking naltrexone eliminates the euphoric effect of alcohol, then what the heck is the point of drinking after taking it? Just to prove you can do it in moderation?

      Comment


        #4
        The point of taking the nal is to get off the AL - OR to be able to drink in moderation - say at Christmas or at a dinner or something. I have not wanted AL since it finally flipped my switch - there are too many things to comment on in Otters post and I am not sure what his purpose is in posting it - a lot of us DO find that naltrexone works - for me it is truly a miracle - I just do not want to drink - I decided to 'test' it by taking a Nal and then waiting the hour and having a drink - I did not finish it - did not want it. There was no alternative for me and I would never think of drinking without Nal now - it is not a problem to carry it on a keychain nor to wait the hour. And as for Alcoholics playing games with the pills, you have to WANT it to work - hence I always, but ALWAYS take the Nal an hour before drinking.

        Sunshinedaisies
        How simple it is to see that we can only be happy now and there will never be a time when it is not now....

        Comment


          #5
          Sunshine, it's wonderful to see you post you have been missed. So glad the nal is working for you.
          Enlightened by MWO

          Comment


            #6
            Sunshine- so if you have a couple of drinks after taking NAL, you don't get the same "buzz" that you used to get back before you started taking NAL? It just feels like you are drinking a non-alcoholic beverage?

            Comment


              #7
              No lex - you do not feel as if you are drinking non alcoholic - you can still get drunk - and feel drunk - very easily - but you just do not get that pleasurable buzz! It is hard to explain really - you get the tipsy feeling if you overdo - but without the good feelings associated with it.

              Hi Skendall ! Good to see you too - I do lurk on the steppers thread now and then ..... and yes the nal has been wonderful for me - beyond my wildest expectations! I am SO happy with the results - took 11 months but it was worth waiting for !

              Hugs, sun
              How simple it is to see that we can only be happy now and there will never be a time when it is not now....

              Comment


                #8
                Nal doesn't stop you getting drunk, it subtely blocks the endorphins released when many drinkers drink. Sort leaves you not as seeking that buzz. Ten units a week would I think, be pretty much very desireable for many alcoholic drinkers. Ten units allowed me to get my life back on track, get some psychological support (this wasn't imposed I chose to do this), and improve my health.

                Many TSMers report an immediate reduction in harmful and dangerous behaviours when they start using Naltrexone, and that is exactly what happened to me - I calmed down and stopped doing really stupid things when drunk. That alone was fantastic.

                No I couldn't stop drinking without it, I'd tried everything else, despite numerous arrests, many dangerous incidents, waking up in places with people who I didn't know, didn't know how I got there, waking up vomiting for 8 hours after a session, then going back out, I couldn't stop. I would walk out on lovers, parents, siblings, anyone close to get to alcohol. It wreaked relationships, and lost several jobs. Some of the TSMers have heard my stories and it was pure hell, yet I couldn't stop. I tried Baclofen and the side effects were for me as bad as drinking, it also rendered me very dangerous because I was like a zombie when I drove, and at work - which put me in personal danger.

                1 tablet?

                How then does an alcoholic organise themselves to take the multiple tablets that High Dose Baclofen requires?

                All I had to do with TSM is take 1 tablet. I put aside a time when I could take it - my lifestyle at that point was pretty much based around my house, because my drinking restricted my life THAT much - I couldn't plan trips away, couldn't buy tickets for events, couldn't go on holiday BECAUSE I knew if I decided to drink I'd be in no fit state to attend or to travel. Many times I let people down no matter how important the occasion because I had to drink.

                When I started TSM I didn't want to drink, BUT I was willing to try anything - which included drinking, to fix the addiction. I took the tablet and drank, my units dropped significantly, and over time I stopped being controlled by my desire to drink. Two years of rarely drinking, but always with Nal taken prior, I decide I really didn't like even 1 glass of wine, and quit totally.

                Two years and 7 months AF, not a drop drunk in that time, and because nal is only taken when you consume alcohol, I don't take it. The cravings haven't returned. I do know if I ever drink again without nal, that I'll probably readdict. The place I've come from was so bad that I never want to risk going back there again, and I don't think I could 'recover' again - so I simply do not drink. I'm med free, alcohol free, and drug free. Sure it's difficult at times, but without that compulsion, without alcohol most things can be worked through in a much easier way than it was when I lay terrified in my room, scared of who might come knocking at the door, shaking like a leaf, crying in the shower as my legs trembled with DTs knowing that I had to go and drink that day.
                I used the Sinclair Method to beat my alcoholic drinking.

                Drank within safe limits for almost 2 years

                AF date 22/07/13

                Comment


                  #9
                  Since when was it go to? Most people have never heard of it, and this forum is 99% Baclofen.
                  I used the Sinclair Method to beat my alcoholic drinking.

                  Drank within safe limits for almost 2 years

                  AF date 22/07/13

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by YouKayBee View Post
                    Since when was it go to? Most people have never heard of it, and this forum is 99% Baclofen.
                    Outside this forum its the go to, in my experience at least. However in this forum its mainly baclofen.

                    Another reason why naltrexone doesn't stop drinking completely is that it only blocks activation of opiate-mu receptors in the brain, thats only one of the feel good effects that alcohol is responsible for. Dopamine is probably the main one followed by gaba-a. Baclofen works on dopamine and seems to be the ticket. I base this just on my own musings, nothing scientific behind it.
                    01-01-2014 - Indifference reached, success with high dose Baclofen 295mg.

                    Baclofen prescribing guide

                    Baclofen for alcoholism - Consolidated Information - Studies, prescribing guides, links

                    Comment


                      #11
                      In some parts of New Zealand, Nal was already being pushed by some GPs and addiction specialists around 2011. I tried it briefly but I could not handle the flatness that it left me with. I also had another really bad reaction. Thats just me. Eventually I found other options to stop drinking. I think this goes to show that there can be many different options that people find to either quit AL or to greatly greatly reduce alcoholic abuse.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        YouKayBee- what a great story you have. I appreciate your sharing of it! lex

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by treetops View Post
                          I could not handle the flatness that it left me with.
                          treetops- did you feel this flatness:

                          1) After you took the NAL but before you commenced drinking (presumably an hour or so after taking it); and/or

                          2) While drinking after having taken NAL; and/or

                          3) Basically all the time during your periods of active NAL use (i.e., did it create a residual sense of flatness in your life)?

                          lex

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Just an aside, if you haven't heard of it, there is a thing called low dose naltrexone, It's still experimental, so studies etc need to be done, but it is interesting.



                            The idea is that you take a small dose at night time, doing this upregulates your opiate-mu receptors and apparently has the following benefits

                            The mechanism of low-dose naltrexone in reversing or preventing the development of tolerance of opioids involves its high-affinity binding to filamin A.[6] The interaction of naltrexone with microglia cells within the central nervous system is believed to be how the drug exerts its beneficial effects in individuals who suffer from fibromyalgia; this interaction on microglial cells results in a reduction of proinflammatory cytokines as well as neurotoxic superoxides.[7]

                            Opioid receptors may have other uses in the body than just for modulating pain, and it is on these bases that supporters of LDN promote it as a treatment for selected diseases. Advocates have claimed that increased endorphin production can help with pain, spasticity, fatigue, relapse rate and other symptoms. These claims are not as of yet supported by significant clinical research.[5] [3]

                            Preliminary research suggest LDN may have an effect on inflammation. Naltrexone has an antagonistic effect on Toll-like receptor 4 (TLR4), which are found on microglia, which can modulate the body's response to inflammation. It has been hypothesized that LDN may have anti-inflammatory effects through this pathway, and this hypothesis is being pursued through further research.[1]
                            As a recovering opiate addict, i wonder if upregulation of opioid-mu receptors at night would give an antidepressant / anti anxiety effect during the day, since your body is producing more endorphins to counter up regulation.

                            Opiates work very well for depression and anxiety, its how i got hooked initially. When i started my codeine abuse, i felt free of social anxiety. Problem is with opiates is that you are down regulating opioid-mu, receptors, tolerance develops and you end up worse than before.

                            There is currently some research on going to give patients with clinical depression low dose Buprenorphine, which is an a mixed agonist / antagonist of opioid receptors.
                            01-01-2014 - Indifference reached, success with high dose Baclofen 295mg.

                            Baclofen prescribing guide

                            Baclofen for alcoholism - Consolidated Information - Studies, prescribing guides, links

                            Comment


                              #15
                              And along these lines google ALKS-5461

                              Comment

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