Announcement

**Ne/Neva Eva** · March 14, 2016, 10:06 AM

Hi, Greg.

I suppose, like everything else, it depends on the person and the amount of baclofen one takes.

Hope you're well.

**neophyte** · March 14, 2016, 09:32 PM

ive gone up to 300mg and currently on 200mg, i dont find that baclofen helped my anxiety at all. i started drinking because of my anxiety, particularly due to working in an open plan office, i was basically terrified of people, i suppose social anxiety was what you would call it.

What did help my anxiety was finding the right anti depresants, went through at least 6 and combinations of them, i ended up on escitalopram 5mg, small dose but it does the trick for me.

**Greg** · March 17, 2016, 05:36 AM

Hi Ne, I'm well thanks and hope you have also been going well.

Thanks Neophyte, I think I read on this forum a long time ago that baclofen in high doses may not have anti-anxiety effects and in fact may make anxiety worse for some. I did find that 2 grams of phenibut (supposedly equal to 20 mg of baclofen) can remove the worrying component of my anxiety, but not the adrenaline-type "flight or fight" feelings. I have also experimented with various lowish doses of baclofen and have found that likewise it does not really address the anxiety that well but others say it has helped a lot. I've had social anxiety all my life and I have found that stimulating drugs do seem to block this, by producing confidence, but daily use of stimulants is not recommended by most. I'm about to try DL-phenylalanine to see if it can have a stimulant-like effect but I tried large-dose tyrosine in the past and found it to have no effects.

**lex** · March 17, 2016, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by Greg View Post

I'm about to try DL-phenylalanine

i hope you will keep us posted

**Mom21961** · March 17, 2016, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by Greg View Post

...
I think I read on this forum a long time ago that baclofen in high doses may not have anti-anxiety effects and in fact may make anxiety worse for some. I did find that 2 grams of phenibut (supposedly equal to 20 mg of baclofen) can remove the worrying component of my anxiety, but not the adrenaline-type "flight or fight" feelings. I have also experimented with various lowish doses of baclofen and have found that likewise it does not really address the anxiety that well but others say it has helped a lot. I've had social anxiety all my life and I have found that stimulating drugs do seem to block this, by producing confidence, but daily use of stimulants is not recommended by most. I'm about to try DL-phenylalanine to see if it can have a stimulant-like effect but I tried large-dose tyrosine in the past and found it to have no effects.

Hi Greg,

I recently found an article which I thought was interesting. It talks about various things such as anxiety, depression, lack of energy, etc. and natural remedies. L-phenylalanine is mentioned, although not for anxiety. Here's the article:

SAMe - Treating and Beating Anxiety and Depression with Orthomolecular Medicine - by Rodger H. Murphree, DC, CNS

http://www.needs.com/product/NDNL-0712-01/htc_SAMe

Treating and Beating Anxiety and Depression with Orthomolecular Medicine by Rodger H. Murphree, DC, CNS Today in the United States, one in three women who visit a doctor are pre - scribed antidepressant medication and one in 10 take at least one antidepressant drug. Interestingly, studies show that up to 70% of those taking an antidepressant do just as well taking a placebo or sugar pill. So while patients are attempting to correct their mood disorders with a prescription, which may or may not be more effective than a sugar pill, all of these drugs have potential—even serious—side effects. Ironically, many of these side effects produce the very symptoms of anxiety and depression that antidepressants are meant to alleviate, i.e., headache, muscle tension, chronic pain, nervousness, sleeplessness, drowsiness, changes in sex drive, tremors, irritated stomach, loss of appetite, dizziness, nausea, weight gain, diarrhea, impotence, hair loss, bronchitis, abnormal heart beat, feelings of hopelessness, and constant, exaggerated worrisome thoughts to name a few. All antidepressants, according to the FDA, cause increased suicidality in young adults. Prozac has been linked to over 1,734 suicides and over 28,000 adverse reactions. ORTHOMOLECULAR MEDICINE Fortunately there is a safer, more effective way to beat mood disorders. A group of progressiveminded physicians pioneered an alternate mental disorder treatment known as orthomolecular medicine: a practice based on the premise that many diseases and abnormalities result from the varying biochemical/chemical composition of each individual, which can be prevented, treated, or even cured by achieving optimum levels of these natural chemical substances via nutritional or amino acid therapy. Certain amino acids with B vitamins and minerals, ingested from the food we eat, produce neurotransmitters. These neurotransmitters, known as catecholamines, cause excitatory reactions. Other catecholamines, like epinephrine and norepinephrine (adrenaline), are derived from the amino acids: phenylalanine, tyrosine, and s-adenosyl-methionine (SAMe). Inhibitory or relaxing neurotransmitters, like serotonin, are produced from the amino acid tryptophan or 5-hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP). In my practice, I use various questionnaires to determine which amino acids to recommend. SAMPLE BRAIN FUNCTION QUESTIONNAIRES: The S (Serotonin) Group Please select all items that apply to your present feelings: It's hard for me to go to sleep. I can't stay asleep. I often feel irritable. My emotions often lack rationality. I occasionally experience unexplained tears. Noise bothers me more or seems louder than normal. I flare up more easily than I used to. I experience unprovoked anger. I often feel depressed. I find I am more susceptible to pain. I prefer to be left alone. Studies (including double blind) comparing selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRI) and tricyclic antidepressants to 5-HTP (which boost serotonin levels) consistently show that 5-HTP is as good, if not better than, prescription medications in treating anxiety and depression, with out some of the more troubling side effects associated with prescriptions. The G (GABA) Group Please select all items that apply to your present feelings: I often feel anxious for no reason. I often feel free floating anxiety. I frequently feel edgy and have difficulty relaxing. I often feel a knot in my stomach. It's hard to turn my mind off when I want to relax. I occasionally experience feelings of panic for no reason. I often use alcohol or other sedatives to calm down. These symptoms are from the absence of Gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), an important neurotransmitter involved in regulating mood and mental clarity. Tranquilizers (Xanax) used to treat anxiety and panic disorders work by increasing GABA. Usually only a small dose of GABA is needed: 500 - 1000 mgs twice a day.* The D (Dopamine) Group Please select all items that apply to your present feelings: I lack pleasure in life. I feel there are no real rewards in life. I have unexplained lack of concern for others, even loved ones. I experience decreased parental feelings. Life seems less colorful or flavorful. Things that used to be fun are no longer enjoyable. I have become a less spiritual or socially concerned person. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter associated with the enjoyment of life, food, arts, nature, your family, friends, hobbies, and other pleasures. Brain fatigue, confusion, and lethargy are all symptoms of low dopamine. The brain cells which manufacture dopamine use the amino acid, L-Phenylalanine, as raw material. Start with 1000 mgs L-phenylalanine twice a day*. If needed, increase up to 4000 mgs twice a day. Don't take late in the day since it may interfere with sleep. If you experience a rapid heartbeat, agitation, or hyperactivity, reduce or stop taking L-phenylalanine. The N (Norepinephrine) Group Please select all items that apply to your present feelings: I suffer from a lack of energy. I often find it difficult to get going. I suffer from decreased drive. I often start projects and then don't finish them. I frequently feel a need to sleep or hibernate. I feel depressed a good deal of the time. I occasionally feel paranoid. My survival seems threatened. I am bored a great deal of the time. When the neurotransmitter, norepinephrine, is released in the brain, it causes feelings of arousal, energy, and drive. SAMe BOOSTS NOREPINEPHRINE LEVELS SAMe increases both serotonin and norepinephrine levels and is a potent antidepressant by itself. Over 100 peer-reviewed studies show SAMe is a safe and effective antidepressant. Prescription antidepressants fail to work for 50% of those who take them. Researchers found that combining SAMe with prescription antidepressants reduces the failure rate by 43%, however, do consult your physician if you are taking an antidepressant. Start with 200 – 400 mg in the morning*. You can take up to a maximum 1200 mg/day, though avoid taking late in the day. Not everyone will need the maximum dose. A more orthomolecular approach to mood improvement involves simply raising or replacing those chemicals already produced or found in the body; a method shown to be more biocomplementary and effective than the prescription counterparts. Now that is a static to get behind. *NOTE: Most amino acids need to be taken on an empty stomach.

Baclofen, for me, does help a ton with social anxiety. I'm at a high dose and have been for a long time. I've been at the same dose for over 3 months with no decrease in effectiveness.

There has been some discussion here about phenibut. Here's the thread and it references additional information and another thread:

Why not phenibut? - My Way Out Forums

https://www.mywayout.org/community/showthread.php?t=86837&highlight=amino+acid

I'm waiting on my baclofen and have been reading a lot about it and came upon a lot of information about phenibut. It looks like it's the exact same thing, only much less expensive and where I am in the US it's sold as a supplement. I ordered some. From what I can tell, 1 gram = 10 mg of baclofen. There's lots of information

One last thread for you. I found this awhile back and it talks about amino acids as a cure for various mood issues. (I think I spend too much time on this forum

)

Amino Acids, The Mood Cure - My Way Out Forums

https://www.mywayout.org/community/showthread.php?t=2695&highlight=mood-cure

:l Excellent Read....Ready for some science again?! Mood Foods: How Amino Acids Feed Your Brain The four key mood chemicals (neurotransmitters) are made of amino acids. There are at least twenty-two amino acids contained in protein foods. High-protein foods, such as fish, eggs, chicken and beef, contain all twenty-two,

Good luck!

Mom2

**Greg** · March 18, 2016, 06:23 AM

Thanks Mom2 for that information. I plan to take 5-HTP to boost serotonin levels and DL-phenylalanine to try and boost norepinephrine and dopamine. It looks like I might need a lot more phenylalanine than I had planned for however. I don't know of any supplement that boosts brain GABA apart from maybe picamilon, since GABA itself is said to not be able to penetrate the blood-brain barrier. I'm thinking of trying baclofen as an anxiolytic and also as a way of discontinuing my low level of marijuana use, since the pot is making me eat a lot and I am getting fat....there is a report of baclofen allowing a long-term heavy pot smoker to cease his marijuana use:

403

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3896138/

**Greg** · March 18, 2016, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by lex View Post

i hope you will keep us posted

Yes I will if successful.

**neophyte** · March 18, 2016, 02:56 PM

Anyone know if there are studies supporting baclofen for use in generalised anxiety disorder, or other anxiety related disorders? that might give a good indication, anecdotes for medication efficacy arent the best, but sometimes its all we have.

**neophyte** · March 18, 2016, 02:57 PM

as for using stimulants, this can just increase anxiety, exceptions can be found however.

**Mentium** · March 18, 2016, 03:35 PM

I'm not aware of any and I have looked pretty hard. Ameisen, as I am sure has been said many times here, did seem to find it did.

Personally I recommend exercise. People tend, as I did for a long time, to dismiss it as a bit of a cliché or something so obvious it isn't worth trying - or even so simple it isn't worth trying. I go to the gym about five times a week for an hour, in addition to long dog walks and my overall anxiety level, a chronically high one for much of my life, is markedly lower. I wish I had discovered it years ago.

An added bonus is a big lift in mood too!

**Estrella** · March 18, 2016, 08:18 PM

Drinking exacerbates anxiety. So does coffee, chocolate, sugar... Watch what you put in your body. Massage and stretching exercises like yoga will induce relaxation and reduce anxiety. Look for massage schools and check "colleges" with message programs for a way to get them on the cheap.

Baclofen is effective for 8 hours. You've got to take before it runs out. If you take it higgledy-piggledy, you won't enjoy freedom from anxiety.

I took 10 mg morning, then afternoon with 20 mgs at night for 2 years for PTSD. By using it religiously with no other meds (most prescribed for depression or anxiety make PTSD worse), I interrupted my brain's fight or flight response.

After 2 years, I found I didn't need it all the time. I do always keep some and I will pop 5-10 mgs when I am in a stressful situation to preempt any symptoms of anxiety/panic. Yes, I did/do this all with my doctor's knowledge. I've been free of PTSD for over 3 years (plus 2 years with the help of baclofen 3 times a day religiously so 5 years total of being released from complex PTSD).

I was originally prescribed the baclofen for a different condition that wasn't brain-related. But I immediately noticed my PTSD want bothering me. Back then, not much was said about it despite a 2003 research study. So, just a happy occurrence that gave me myself back.

**Otter** · March 23, 2016, 02:31 PM

I think baclofen has long term anti-anxiety effects.

I am going to draw a parallel with what is being posted elsewhere on the thread about Ibogaine. Ibogaine is apparently, so it is mooted, of sooo great a benefit because it gives one an "insight" into one's illness, allows one to see it from a different angle, and all that mumbo jumbo. It seems that this is the benefit of it, not the chemical effect of the hallucinogenic trip itself.

Oddly, no one mentions much that baclofen has a similar effect. When I first took it I had an immediate sensation of "normality" where all was calm and everything seemed ok. I felt free of all anxiety. What is interesting about this for me is that if one considers "anxiety" as a thing unto itself, like a commodity, then when one "gets rid" of it, anxiety goes away for everything. That to me is a massively fascinating thing because I began to ponder the fact that even the fear of death is just a form of anxiety and that if one can take baclofen and then not have fear of death, then one has conquered death itself. I suppose there are creatures out there that have some kind of thinking processes which don't allow them to have anxiety over death, so it becomes meaningless and that is what I thought I had become.

Over the years I have woken up on many occasions with a feeling of anxiety and then taken a baclofen and in a few minutes the anxiety has gone away and has been replaced by a sense of optimism and a clarity of thought about how to resolve the issues which were making me feel anxious. I think, over time, I got used to the idea that anxiety is simply a lot of neurons wizzing around my brain and I no longer worry about anything. I feel that this is an important insight which one can achieve through taking baclofen and every bit as significant as the supposed insights brought about by Ibogaine.

Some here may remember the Dutch guys who came here and posted about baclofen being the "peace" drug. I think they were saying that if everyone could experience this insight into an anxiety free world then no one would want to get worked up into wanting to fight other people. They set up a forum which later closed and I didn't find out the full story about their "peace drug" idea. i expect is was along the same lines as what I experienced.

The thing is, a lot of people seem, to me, only to value a mental "trip" or insight if it involves something "far out" or wild and crazy that makes them think there is something strange out there. I feel that a drug that gives one a release from an illness that is supposed to be incurable and which also frees you from all anxiety provides a much more interesting insight than a psychodelic trip. On baclofen I felt that I had gone back to my childhood when I used to wonder why adults drank. I now look at other people as though I am looking at them from the other side of some kind of invisible barrier, like a one way mirror. I can see their behaviour under the influence of alcohol. I can contemplate why they are drinking, what they feel with and without drink, but I know they can't contemplate a release from that constant feeling that they have to drink to relax and that this is "normal".

They, on the other hand, look at me and see someone who they think is being prudish about drinking or moralistic, who knows. They can't figure it out, that I don't feel like a drink. What's more I can't tell them what it is like. I can tell them a story about how I stopped and I get "yeah, yeah, give me another drink". It's really funny.

Maybe this comes from baclofen making some changes. Or, maybe it comes from the brain being give a rest from all the anxiety that baclofen takes away. Maybe it is from the insight into what anxiety is and that it is an illusion which ultimately can just be ignored. So, yes, I definitely think baclofen has a long term effect.

**Greg** · March 25, 2016, 09:04 PM

Thanks very much Otter, it was interesting to read what you have to say on this issue. I'm hoping for the benefits you describe, although I'll only be going up to 80-100 mg per day. I hope you and your wife are both well.

Thanks also to everyone else who posted here, I hope you are all doing well.

**Otter** · April 3, 2016, 04:19 AM

You are welcome. Nice to hear from you.

I had a thought about this.

Tk posted something interesting about how endogenous GHB works at a macromolecular level. I did some research which suggested that it has a very weak effect on Gaba b receptors. These chemicals are in absolutely minute amounts in our bodies. It must therefore be pretty easy to upset this fine balance. I think it must be that drying out on baclofen with no cravings and far less drinking gives the brain a chance to recover its normal functioning. I liken this to returning to a childhood position when alcoholics didn't crave alcohol. But then I thought, hey, my wife said she felt odd when she was young... Then there is the controversy over using baclofen in children with autism.

Is autism in children a precursor to alcoholism??

The other thing is that if this is so fine a mechanism then it is absolutely necessary in my experience to have as calm and stress free a time and as much support in using baclofen as one can get. I don't think this is because baclofen isn't effective. It's just the nature of the beast, that we are talking about adjusting something that is incredibly finely tuned to start with and increased stresses can easily override the capacity of an alcoholic's reduced coping capacity, even with baclofen. Seriously, these are tiny pills. You take handfuls of Ibuprofen pills of 500mg and combine that with similar amounts of Paracetamol for a headache without batting an eye but baclofen is used in units of 10 mg and some people divide those pills into quarters. Just imagine if it had no side effects and you you just went to the pharmacy and got a bottle of baclofen pills of 250 mg each and took a handful to knock out your craving! What a thought.

That is in fact what Arbaclofen is because it is some crazy amount like 50 times as potent as baclofen but without side effects. Cheese us!

The problem is that if you take baclofen it doesn't eliminate the stressors. In fact, unless you keep it secret, you can get into worse stress as we found out. Your doctor will refuse to help you. People will look at you funny. You will get some dork on a forum trolling you. It all adds up and the anxiety over the lack of support and skepticism adds to the anxiety. It's amazing anyone can get better on it given the social reaction to it, as displayed by said dork on this forum, is so profoundly...dorkish.

Welcome Guest to My Way Out Forums.

Announcement

Does baclofen have LONG TERM anti-anxiety effects?

Does baclofen have LONG TERM anti-anxiety effects?

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment