Couple questions on titrating off at 120 mg/day and nootropics

[haltme]

Hi all,

I have been on baclofen for 3 years and sober for that time. Baclofen makes not drinking ridiculously easy. I love it. Unfortunately I need to come off as I was diagnosed with severe gastritis and the Dr thinks it's hard on my stomach I guess. This is not the original Dr who prescribed it, I'm seeing a new dr because I moved to a different state and she doesn't like me on it.

(When I moved I had to call 23 different psychs before finding one that would prescribe it, despite being on it for a year already. I found 1 Dr. who did, she ended up leaving the practice shortly after and I was assigned to another Dr in the building who asked me "Who fills your Baclofen?" I said "You guys do". I could tell that she would not have prescribed it.)

So, my current dr had me go down to 80 mg/day and about 3-4 days later I had withdrawal symptoms (felt like I was going crazy, much like alcohol wd) and requested I go down 10 mg each week instead. This dr said coming off baclofen wasn't bad. ha. Curious for those who have gone off how their schedule was with dosing? Is 10 mg/week decrease a good route? Should it be 2 weeks? Really don't need it messing with my head as I've never really been stable dealing with depression on and off.

Alright the other question is do any of you use nootropics? I have tried noopept, choline, and ALCAR and like it, I just don't want to take anything that would interfere with the Baclofen absorption. The reason I like nootropics is it gets me out of a rut and I started accomplishing things with a better mood. I'd ask my Dr but she's against anything OTC and not FDA regulated. Might ask a pharmacist.

Thanks!

(Moderator move from Need Help ASAP Forum)

[Mom21961]

Re: Couple questions on titrating off at 120 mg/day and nootropics

[MENTION=24079]haltme[/MENTION], you don't say what your switch dose was, but you should absolutely not make big changes with your dosage overnight. I believe the recommendation is to titrate down following the same schedule as titrating up. In general, 10mg every 3 to 4 days. I had a lot of side effects, so I titrated up and down an average of 10 mg/week. That was comfortable for me.

I use Adrafinil with caution. I'm worried about the long term effect on dopamine. Supposedly it increases dopamine, thus the focus and productivity, however I don't want to make things worse in the long run. My dopamine levels seem to be low and I wonder if it's the Baclofen. I'd be interested to know if you still need nootropics when you're off it. Let us know how it goes. Fingers crossed for you.

[_serenity_]

Re: Couple questions on titrating off at 120 mg/day and nootropics

Hi [MENTION=24079]haltme[/MENTION] and welcome!

Forgive me for a moment. I just want to EYEROLL at the doctor who is blaming the gastritis on baclofen and thinks coming off it is no problem! It's so sad that alcoholics have to fend for themselves in the medical world and that we have to literally prescribe for/treat/fend for ourselves. I have never had stomach problems with bac, and I have never heard of anyone having those sort of severe stomach problems with it. Methinks the doctor has no clue. My current provider prescribes baclofen after I showed her the studies etc., and I still find myself "teaching" her about the way the drug works (i.e. how it's excreted through the kidneys, how it works in the brain, etc). Don't get me wrong; I'm beyond glad she prescribes it and trusts my judgment. But something about the treatment of alcoholism seems backwards when it comes to prescribing medications.

120 to 80 is a pretty big jump down. 10 mgs/week is a much saner schedule for titrating down.

I've taken piracetam and aniracetam. There is another one I've wanted to try, fasoracetam, because it is supposedly baclofen-specific. Haven't gotten around to that. I really liked piracetam!

[haltme]

Re: Couple questions on titrating off at 120 mg/day and nootropics

[MENTION=18177]Mom2JTx3[/MENTION], Switch dose for me I guess is 120 mg. When I first got on it I self-administered up to 160 before having a Dr prescribe it for me and only allowing the max FDA of 120.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I will probably go down 10 a week. Did you, and do you still have side effects? What were they? Are you off it now? /shotgunquestions. Right now I'm a little on edge, but it might be the Modafinil so I might take half the dose or not at all. Noopept seems to even out the unstable feeling and puts me in a good mood. Noopept might be causing some irritable feelings as well after 4 hours. Might hold off on that too. The next few days are going to be experimental, well it will probably be more than that since I'm sure the side effects of any thing I take won't be gone after 1 day of no use. I'm hoping the issue I have of a little uneasiness is just because my dose of 200 mg Modafinil needs to be halved.

[haltme]

Re: Couple questions on titrating off at 120 mg/day and nootropics

[MENTION=14524]_serenity_[/MENTION], I know it. She deserves all the eye rolls! Not sure if she was blaming it on Baclofen, rather just doesn't like the fact I'm on it for whatever reason. Actually the gastritis was brought up because of Kratom. Was using that to get out of a depressive state, this was before I knew about nootropics. I'm okay with coming off Baclofen as I feel I've got a life established without thinking about drinking. And I recently found out long term use causes cognitive decline. Okay so yeah, fasoracetam! I was confused about that as to whether it would mess up how much your body absorbs Baclofen or not? If it's not going to mess with that then I am going to try it. And noopept might contribute to irritable feelings after it wears off. Makes me feel great up until then tho!

[Mom21961]

Re: Couple questions on titrating off at 120 mg/day and nootropics

[MENTION=24079]haltme[/MENTION], I no longer have side effects except for brain fog. I had horrendous side effects going up. I sometimes only went up five mg a week, or even longer. I’m sitting at 220 after being at 310 for a long time. Maybe a year and a half? I may continue to go down. I’ve been worried as I’m not cognitively back to where I use to be. The advice on the French forum is to titrate down until you have cravings and then bump up some.

Where did you hear that long term Baclofen causes cognitive decline? That’s a scary thought! Although I know my alcoholism was causing much more of one

[Mom21961]

Re: Couple questions on titrating off at 120 mg/day and nootropics

I've taken piracetam and aniracetam. There is another one I've wanted to try, fasoracetam, because it is supposedly baclofen-specific. Haven't gotten around to that. I really liked piracetam!

Hi [MENTION=14524]_serenity_[/MENTION]. What does Baclofen specific mean? I have some Piracetam but never used it. I’ll need to try it!

[Mish]

Re: Couple questions on titrating off at 120 mg/day and nootropics

I really feel for you because Baclofen has been my miracle drug which, as you say, makes not drinking ridiculously easy. I had the same issues with doctors not wanting to prescribe it and then having found one, having them move to another state, or having to cut back on their clients and because I was passed on to them by a departing psych, meant that I was on end of the list and hence the first to go.

However, I've finally found one who only wants to see me once a year and allows my GP to co-prescribe. Yay.
I've been maintaining on 75mg after starting a gruelling 3 month titration from a starting dose of 100mg to 375 before I killed the beast. It was hideous but I was sick and tired of being sick and tired and I made it a "Mishn" to get it done.
Gastroenteritis isn't much easier but if you can find someone who knows how to look after your gut while still taking Baclofen, surely that would be the best case scenario. A good naturopath should be able to advise you on whether it's an option.
Incidentally, I took a very nasty fall in August and at the hospital I was asked for the list of medications I take. When I said that I take Baclofen for issues that I had with alcohol, as I'm usually asked quite brusquely about the reasons, the nurse just said calmly that it's now being used commonly in the treatment of addiction. Hurrah for the Aussie doctors who are prepared to look at the research into off prescribing medicines to help people like us.

[haltme]

Re: Couple questions on titrating off at 120 mg/day and nootropics

[MENTION=24079]haltme[/MENTION], I no longer have side effects except for brain fog. I had horrendous side effects going up. I sometimes only went up five mg a week, or even longer. I’m sitting at 220 after being at 310 for a long time. Maybe a year and a half? I may continue to go down. I’ve been worried as I’m not cognitively back to where I use to be. The advice on the French forum is to titrate down until you have cravings and then bump up some.

Where did you hear that long term Baclofen causes cognitive decline? That’s a scary thought! Although I know my alcoholism was causing much more of one

[MENTION=18177]Mom2JTx3[/MENTION], Baclofen dose-dependently disrupts learning in a place avoidance task requiring cognitive coordination - ScienceDirect is the link for cognitive decline. I'm with you on the thinking alcoholism was a big contributor! I'm sure it is. Would love to get a brain image scan once.

[_serenity_]

Re: Couple questions on titrating off at 120 mg/day and nootropics

[MENTION=18177]Mom2JTx3[/MENTION] - this thread https://www.mywayout.org/community/m...ht=fasoracetam got me interested in Fasoracetam. It apparently helps with baclofen memory lapses.

Piracetam needs to be taken with a choline source, just FYI! I found that when I took it, I felt much sharper.

[haltme]

Re: Couple questions on titrating off at 120 mg/day and nootropics

[MENTION=18177]Mom2JTx3[/MENTION] - this thread https://www.mywayout.org/community/m...ht=fasoracetam got me interested in Fasoracetam. It apparently helps with baclofen memory lapses.

Piracetam needs to be taken with a choline source, just FYI! I found that when I took it, I felt much sharper.

[MENTION=14524]_serenity_[/MENTION], You're saying Fasoracetam works well with Baclofen? It doesn't combat the effectiveness or absorption of Baclofen?

[_serenity_]

Re: Couple questions on titrating off at 120 mg/day and nootropics

[MENTION=24079]haltme[/MENTION], *I* am not saying that! The post that I linked had a quote that said that fasoracetam could possibly block the memory lapses. Bac has long played havoc with my short-term memory. I have thought about experimenting with fasoracetam to see it it helped.

[havaro]

Re: Couple questions on titrating off at 120 mg/day and nootropics

Sorry to bring back an old thread to life, but has anybody of you tried actually use fasoracetam to taper down baclofen? And how was it?


Thank you very much!

[georgesmiley]

Re: Couple questions on titrating off at 120 mg/day and nootropics

[MENTION=14524]_serenity_[/MENTION] ,

I'm curious about the memory issues. I'd felt some possibly similar feelings - but never put it together with baclofen.

So I asked professor google, and while there are many 'thoughts' out there, much of the proper research I found* suggested no or negligible impact.

What are your thoughts? Experiences? (Assuming you can remember them...)

George Smiley

*On tiny groups of humans (eg n=5) or rats, so make of it what you will.

[_serenity_]

Re: Couple questions on titrating off at 120 mg/day and nootropics

Hi [MENTION=24582]georgesmiley[/MENTION],

It's pretty common for people who are titrating up on baclofen, or who are on higher doses of baclofen, to have memory issues. I remember way back in 2010 when I was titrating up, I was told on here to make a plan for my doses because I would get to the point where I'd forget whether I'd taken it yet, how much I'd taken etc. I was told to set phone alarms or to divide up my daily doses in advance so I wouldn't forget to take them. And I definitely noticed issues with my memory, especially at my switch dose (190 mgs/day). That was a large reason why I wanted to taper down after reaching indifference (which I did and promptly relapsed--it took some time for me to find a happy medium). To this day, I put my baclofen into one of those "day of the week" pill boxes. A few years ago I went through a phase in which I took my entire dosage once a day (I do not recommend this and don't do it anymore). I believe I was taking 140 mgs/day. One day I took my pills, forgot about it, and took 140 mgs a second time. I got so sick. Baclofen ODs are no fun...

Odd that the studies haven't showed a link, because it was a common side effect and was widely reported around these parts. I wouldn't call what I experienced memory loss, it was more like memory lapses. But they were very noticeable.