Hi! Im here again. A small voice still looking for friends on their way out of this

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Re: Hi! I’m here again. A small voice still looking for friends on their way out of t

1817148[/URL]]I'm so sorry Ne. That is the worst feeling in the world. I can't imagine. :hug:

It’s better now. I haven’t talked with them, but texted them to let them know I was, “okay.” As if. But they don’t deserve to suffer through this with me. And they were very thankful I reached out because I would normally just shut down, which I have, and shut them out. I’d rather the lie that makes them not have sleepless nights than the truth, which would give any parent sleeplessness.

fingers crossed that I can cross this bridge without fucking anyone else up.

I talked to a friend from my treatment center small group in 2016 (2014?) who lives nearby yesterday evening. She didn’t get sober from that treatment center, and honestly I had to distance myself from her for a long while because I just couldn’t handle the drama. How ironic.

Anyway, she went to her 5th treatment center at (apparently) a hellish place in Florida a couple of years ago and she’s been sober for 20 months. Pregnancy and breast feeding, especially in her 40s, I’m sure helped. The fact that she actually had sex with her husband back then amazes me, since he was an especially ass-hole-ish asshole. But whatever.

But she was very kind and supportive. Actually made me feel like I could make the decision to not drink and to stick with the goal.
xo, sister

[guardian]

Re: Hi! I’m here again. A small voice still looking for friends on their way out…

Thank you, both. Yeah, it’s brutal to lie and get caught in the lie and keep lying. my parents have been incredibly, unbelievably supportive this go ‘round. Like I wish I could gift their understanding and willingness to help to everyone. (And my younger self!!!)

Something happened when I was in treatment at Ashley in Maryland and worked with this incredible therapist doing “schema” therapy. Basically, it’s family of origin stuff, but in decades of off and on therapy, I’ve never made a breakthrough like with schema therapy. And for the first time, I don’t really feel angry with, or blame, my parents anymore. I don’t know what happened, but the decades-long underlying resentment is just…gone. Whew! What a relief that’s been. Not that everything’s perfectly copacetic, but I’m very lucky.

That’s not to say I am not feeling shame and anger at myself. Your words, Ian, [MENTION=9868]guardian[/MENTION] were very centering and a relief. Thank you. Where is the quote from?

It's from an old poem called desiderata. I read it several times a day for months. Aptly, it was written for the poet's son or daughter (I can't remember).

[guardian]

Re: Hi! I’m here again. A small voice still looking for friends on their way out…

Double post

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Re: Hi! I’m here again. A small voice still looking for friends on their way out of t

Thank you [MENTION=9868]guardian[/MENTION]. That was a lovely poem to start my day.

I took an Antabuse this morning. There’s beer in the house, but the last of the wine is gone. The Antabuse is expired, I’ve had it forever, but it’s the point…the decision.

My parents just want me to be content. And sober, of course. I’ve become a recluse in my drinking. It’s baaaaad. I miss people, but only when I’ve been sober for a couple of days.

there’s a bookshelf I started to put together FOUR days ago, and it’s been half finished on the kitchen floor all week. So I’m going to finish that and hit a couple of meetings today. That’s the goal, anyway.

happy Sunday, friends. Xo

[guardian]

Re: Hi! I’m here again. A small voice still looking for friends on their way out of t

It's amazing how well alcohol fills the need for human connection. I have the most independent personality type, but I too really started missing that once I spent time sober. And it's tough making friends as an adult. So AA helps. But one of my biggest disappointments with AA, and a lot of this is my fault, is that it's all about the meeting. I guess if you don't have any friends, renting some for a buck an hour isn't a bad deal. Glad to hear you're doing better.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Re: Hi! I’m here again. A small voice still looking for friends on their way out of t

1817244[/URL]] I guess if you don't have any friends, renting some for a buck an hour isn't a bad deal. Glad to hear you're doing better.

hahahahaha! Good point.

I used to be a pretty social, and socially active, person. It’s been years, though. And everyone, and I mean every one of my close friends, had enough by about mid year. I was being mean and nasty, and well, drunk. I can’t fault them.

It’s a good damn thing I took that Antabuse when I first woke up, because damn sure I’d choose booze right now. Seven hundred things I need to do and I’m bored to tears, almost literally, and don’t want to do ANYTHING. *sigh

[guardian]

Re: Hi! I’m here again. A small voice still looking for friends on their way out of t

[MENTION=12976]Ne/Neva Eva[/MENTION] Well, it's good to know that you at least had relationships to fuck up lol. I got into a bit of serious trouble about 4.5 years ago - was required to take antabuse, attend AA, get a sponsor, therapy, etc. Anyway, while working the steps with my sponsor, he had a hard time believing that my relationship resentments were so few and that the amends that I had to make were similar. I was still pretty full of shit at the time, couldn't see myself clearly at all, and was in enormous pain. So, he was probably right to a degree. On the other hand, I made up for it by amping up the intensity of the relationship resentments I did have and really, really doing a job on the people who I did allow in. Real nastly malignant narcissistic shit. Fucked up as it sounds, I'm glad that you have people to apologize to and haven't spent your entire life wound up tightly in a bud. That reminds me of another nice quote: "And the day came When the risk to remain Closed tightly in a bud Became more painful Than the risk it took T Blossom." (Anonymous)

The antabuse brings back memories. I mentioned being required taking it during probation, but I, like you, self administered it around 2017. And drank on it. I just have to shake my head and laugh. I think I was having a hard time sourcing baclofen at the time or something. It's nasty shit, terrible for the liver - even compared to alcohol from what I've been told. Indiana, where I live, is the only state (From what the other scumbags like me on probation said) that still requires it for some alcohol-related crimes. But if it's that or prison...

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Re: Hi! I’m here again. A small voice still looking for friends on their way out of t

@guardian, I like the quote. Thank you. Yes, the common AA refrain, "when the pain of the present is more difficult than the thought of change..." or whatever, is a true one, for me at least. Fortunately, the pain I incur is relatively minor (knock wood and thanks to whatever). Mostly because I stopped going out a long time ago. I drink at home, alone. And with instacart, I don't need to leave the house.

Losing friends is terrible, awful, excruciating, but it's not as painful as say, prison. Or losing family. And my family has rallied hard around me this go 'round. Husband, parents, even my brother and we're not that close.

It's so funny, because I don't believe in rehab, and the last one I went to helped me tremendously in many ways. And I don't believe in antabuse use, because it is terrible for the liver and because it's mostly been shown not only ineffective but dangerous for those of us who actually can't quit drinking despite dire consequences. But I'm on day 2, and damn if it doesn't help. I mean, if there was wine in the house, or if I had to go to the grocery store where they sell the wine, I'd have been drinking wine and probably puking my guts out. But as it is, I've had two sips of beer. I suppose that's the baclofen, too. So on with the expired antabuse experiment!

Sorry for your experience with the penal system. I hate it so much. So, so, so much. I hope you're past all of that now. If/when I get to the 4th step, I don't know what resentments I'll have. Not many that are recent, because I have been a shitty person and friend for a couple of years, so I can't blame the people who cut me off or told me to fuck off. But Leslie can still kiss my ass, and I haven't interacted with her for 14 years. And it'll take an act of something very powerful for me to make amends to that horrible beast. But obviously I've got a ways to go with the humility and repentance shit.
@Stevo, how are things?

Cheers, y'all. Hope it's a good day/night.

[Stevo]

Re: Hi! I’m here again. A small voice still looking for friends on their way out of t

[MENTION=12976]Ne/Neva Eva[/MENTION], I am alive but have had further life hiccups. Feeling pretty down and not up to posting an update. I saw your question on my thread a week or so ago, I just have so much to process.

Further updates soon.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Re: Hi! I’m here again. A small voice still looking for friends on their way out of t

Take good care. We’re here when you’re ready. :hug:

[_serenity_]

Re: Hi! I’m here again. A small voice still looking for friends on their way out of t

I'm sorry, [MENTION=22203]Stevo[/MENTION]. I hope things get better for you soon. :hug:

[DragonbytheSea]

Re: Hi! I’m here again. A small voice still looking for friends on their way out of t

Please consider that the value of "indifference" may be epistemological in nature, in knowing what it feels like not to care that alcohol exists.

Example: I had pretty terrific depression, and a lot of deer paths in my brain to bad and sad events. I started an exercise wherein I made a big, huge mental deal of happy moments. Any lame bit of happy, moment of empowerment, quiet bit of zen, I sat still in it and tried to make myself remember this moment, and then I returned to it over and over - on purpose. And the moments built up, my memories of them got stronger. I have a boatload to be unhappy about, but I think depression is under my boot.

Baclofen worked the same way for me. It was a knowing what it feels like, and making a deer path to the feeling (or memory of it may suffice).

The other most important thing I did for happiness in sobriety (going on a decade) was discover Complex Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. I think it is the simple cause of most addiction and nearly everything falling under the category of "personality disorder." See Pete Walker's "CPTSD: From Surviving to Thriving" for more on that. Full disclosure: It's in my name, just call me Puff.

I am glad that you are still kicking.

[_serenity_]

Re: Hi! I’m here again. A small voice still looking for friends on their way out of t

Thank you, [MENTION=24764]DragonbytheSea[/MENTION]. I have been diagnosed with CPTSD and it explains so much. I also have ADD (as I'm sure you know, the two go hand in hand) and it's been very eye-opening to learn about how my neurodivergent brain works. I have just started putting work into the diagnoses this year. There are effective therapies and medication for both and it's helped me so much.

Love the deer path analogy. And your focus on the positive/happy moments.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Re: Hi! I’m here again. A small voice still looking for friends on their way out of t

Please consider that the value of "indifference" may be epistemological in nature, in knowing what it feels like not to care that alcohol exists.

…

I am glad that you are still kicking.

Hey, [MENTION=24764]DragonbytheSea[/MENTION]. You’re going to have to break that down for me even more than you did. “I believe, therefore it will be.”? Or, “I know it exists, so it will exist again.”? Or, “I just have to imagine/acknowledge it, and it will become?” I understand the definition of epistemological but I don’t understand in which way you’re relating it to baclofen.

I completely understand about the deer paths, though I’ve never heard the term, I’m using it from now on. Depression tends to suck the color and any appreciation of zen out of life, both in the moment and afterward. Recreating those pathways. mental and neural, is not a part-time hobby. But I believe it makes a difference. Hence the insistence on everyone I have ever found helpful on creating a gratefulness journal of some sort. And then reading the fekking thing. Ha. But also, exercise. It’s pretty clear that hard exercise creates new deer paths to better places.

I suppose we all have some form of PTSD, if we’ve been in addiction long enough. I can’t tell you how many people I met in treatment that not only deny PTSD, or any form of negative “brain alteration” we cope with. Funny, but not.

Sadly THC, and it’s brethren, doesnt work for me AT ALL just the opposite, despite all the options that are legally available in my state.. But I’m going to continue to explore other very therapeutic and alternative options. I just have to trust that baclofen, with some other meds, is going to help at the moment, and don’t want to go off on a tangent that the other 3 people here might find alarming. Ha

Thank you for stopping by, Puff. And glad you’re well. I think im at the beginning of the final phase with booze. Fingers crossed.

im on my iPad and not going to proofread so forgive if it’s kind of screwy.

[Mulburry]

Re: Hi! I’m here again. A small voice still looking for friends on their way out of t

Please consider that the value of "indifference" may be epistemological in nature, in knowing what it feels like not to care that alcohol exists.

I feel like I have gained some of form of "indifference" simply through abstinence; it seems the longer I don't drink or think of it as something I do, the less it phases me (sure I still have cravings once in a while but I just think of it as something that's not an option). Easier said than done I know, and it's something I'm not sure I would have been able to do earlier in my life. I know this isn't exactly what you're talking about, but I think it goes down a similar path, maybe just the continued idea of knowing that I don't need Al and that I can continue without it, becomes more succinct as the days go by.

I can’t tell you how many people I met in treatment that not only deny PTSD, or any form of negative “brain alteration” we cope with.

I do feel that a lot of people are in denial over this, heck I was for a long time until the "brain alteration" became so bad I just couldn't anymore (of course by that time I was in too deep). It's so subtle at first and takes so many years to get slightly worse, and slightly worse etc., it was so easy to delude myself.

Sadly THC, and it’s brethren, doesnt work for me AT ALL just the opposite, despite all the options that are legally available in my state..

I used cannabis quite a bit when I was drinking, and I do still have cravings for it sometimes, but I'm very hesitant to try it now, partly because I almost always combined it with Al, and cannabis was always a little dicey for me (could easily get anxiety by overdoing it etc.). Maybe one day, but I feel like it's best just to let sleeping dogs lie for now.