Trying to become Real before I become too loose in the joints and shabby

[guardian]

Hi,

At the suggestion of another forum member, I've decided to start writing more. Thank you for your encouragement. I don't know you, but I love you.

And when I decided to start this journal, my words were right there; packed so tightly in my throat with nowhere to go that they were coming out in tears. 2 days ago the ffear of running of of time took me to something else, when I think this is probably more important than anything else right now. Because I'm right where I was, like, a year-and-a-half or maybe 2 years ago in many ways. Learning the hard way again. But it isn't the same. The thing that spun me like a top this time is worse. I didn't have anger before, and this time I did. I allowed it; didn't feel ashamed. Not entitled to anything because of it, but it wasn't wrong. I grew. And right now, what I am feeling, allowing myself to feel without judgement, I am growing. I can fucking feel it. But there is a lesson too, and I need to put it down. I need to learn and remember. I tried paper and pencil for a long time. But this, for me, is key: putting it here allows me to be seen, to be known.

I read this Robert Bly quote, or heard it in an audiobook rather, and it seemed to speak to me and what I have gone through on my journey:

"Tragedies, then, are not so much about personality flaws as about the depths that call up to certain men and insist that they descend."

I've spent enough time in AA to know that the program itself is not for me, and in fact may be quite damaging to someone with my experiences and disposition. That passage gives me peace. I've spent most of my life unconsciously hating myself, and large parts of the last 4 years doing it consciously.

I still attend AA, probably more recently than ever. I don't resist the things that aren't for me anymore, and I can fully accept and welcome in the ways in which it is beneficial. Which, for me right now, is just being in the company of others - connection, familiar faces.

I'm all over the place, and I don't suspect that this thread will be any different. I wish I could say that I'll keep it on the subject of alcoholism, but that isn't true. I've haven't been drunk in over 4 years, much of that thanks to baclofen. I required 340 mgs. this time to remove cravings. I currently take 100mgs. I don't know what would happen if I drank now. I sometimes think about it - mostly when I feel lonely. But when I think about the actual act and I have no interest in that. Alcohol as a part of my life seems very distant.


That's it for now. I just needed to keep it going.

[bleep]

Re: Trying to become Real before I become too loose in the joints and shabby

No wise words from me alas guardian. Just wanted to say hello, good to see you still going after so long. And wise words don't even sound like they are needed. 4 years!

Take care.

[guardian]

Re: Trying to become Real before I become too loose in the joints and shabby

No wise words from me alas guardian. Just wanted to say hello, good to see you still going after so long. And wise words don't even sound like they are needed. 4 years!

Take care.

Thank you, Bleep. Somebody, who I love very much and who's opinion of me has immense weight, once said to me that baclofen is a "band aid." I think at the time she believed that AA was the only option for an alcoholic. That's what I assume, and I've gotten into a lot of trouble mind reading - not that I'm reading incorrectly, but to be consumed with trying to work out people's thoughts, feelings, and motivations in order to choose my own course of action is exhausting, and has made me quite unhappy. She's really given me nothing, so that's what I've got. Anyway, what she said pissed me off at the time, and later, when I had lost her, I was willing to just assume it was correct, because to agree was to do the things I needed to do to get her back. Even experts don't seem to understand alcoholism very well because they all seem to assume their premises. There isn't a ton of actual evidence - with the exception of a growing basketful of genes that make own susceptible. I'd add to that which make one "sensitive," susceptible to trauma, etc. Again - anyway, my beliefs about things have changed, and I realize that, for me at least, baclofen isn't the band-aid, it removes the band-aid. But I still have feelings of guilt that I didn't "do it the right way."

[Mulburry]

Re: Trying to become Real before I become too loose in the joints and shabby

Somebody, who I love very much and who's opinion of me has immense weight, once said to me that baclofen is a "band aid."

Even if it is merely a band-aid, sometimes a wound needs a band-aid, right? I guess the question is: once that band-aid is finally removed, has the wound fully healed?

Even experts don't seem to understand alcoholism very well because they all seem to assume their premises. There isn't a ton of actual evidence - with the exception of a growing basketful of genes that make own susceptible. I'd add to that which make one "sensitive," susceptible to trauma, etc.

I'd add to that also, that alcoholism is a very complex disease and comes in myriad of shapes and flavors and can be different for everyone... so maybe there can't be one universal approach, and everyone has to see what works for them. Which leads me to the last point, that absolutely you should not have any feelings of guilt over not doing it "the right way", as there is no singular right way.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Re: Trying to become Real before I become too loose in the joints and shabby

Thank you.

[guardian]

Re: Trying to become Real before I become too loose in the joints and shabby

[MENTION=24679]Mulburry[/MENTION]

Maybe it's a bit of semantics. In AA I used to hear a lot that alcohol was the alcoholic's "solution" to the (mental, physical, spiritual) malady, and when you get sober, you need a new solution. I guess in the psychological understanding of addiction and alcoholism, then alcohol serves as the "band-aid." By removing it with baclofen, the person no longer has a way to create artificial ease. In my case it also facilitated deep feelings of anger, sadness, joy, etc. - things I needed to feel. As far as the wound healing - I think if you drank like I did, for the reasons I did, the wound never heals. I'm not feeling the best right now, but that's my sense.

[guardian]

Re: Trying to become Real before I become too loose in the joints and shabby

[MENTION=24679]Mulburry[/MENTION]

And in regards to the complexity of the "disease" of alcoholism, you're absolutely right. Alcohol is basic, but we, alcoholics and humans in general, are incredibly complex. Made me think of this quote:

"We are all of us exceedingly complex creatures and do ourselves a service in regarding ourselves as complex. Otherwise, we live in a dream world of nonexistent, simplistic black-and-white notions which simply do not apply to life." — Theodore Rubin

Even in regards to baclofen - there are some people that it doesn't work for. Apparently my limbic system is pretty similar to an alcohol rat's, because it works very well for me.

Another quote that I found while looking for the one above; not to do with alcoholism per se (or maybe so), but it resonated enough with me and my struggles as of late that it's going in here - for posterity or something.

“I must learn to love the fool in me–the one who feels too much, talks too much, takes too many chances, wins sometimes and loses often, lacks self-control, loves and hates, hurts and gets hurt, promises and breaks promises, laughs and cries.” — Theodore Rubin,

and

“Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)”

― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

[guardian]

Re: Trying to become Real before I become too loose in the joints and shabby

[MENTION=12976]Ne/Neva Eva[/MENTION]

No, thank you.

I saw that you posted a few times today (yesterday? I'm too lazy to fix my local time zone in this Y2K-era site and I just assume all ya'll are Australian anyway ). I'll contribute tonight.

We're bringing it back. Tell your friends (I don't have any, so you'll all have to tell yours).

Minus the "troll," which, must have been after I left because I only remember one woman who was a pain in the ass, but not sociopathic or anything. Love to hear that story some day.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Re: Trying to become Real before I become too loose in the joints and shabby

I’m in Virginia. lol

bbl

[DragonbytheSea]

Re: Trying to become Real before I become too loose in the joints and shabby

Also Emerson: "Speak what you think now in hard words and tomorrow speak what tomorrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said today."

If you cannot change your own mind, you can change nothing.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Re: Trying to become Real before I become too loose in the joints and shabby

ugh. I lost what I already wrote. I forgot about that lovely aspect. Sadly, it probably means I've lost my train of thought, too. We'll see.

GuardIan, thank you so much for starting a thread. I need to write, but I can't and don't want to post anywhere else. So whoever encouraged you to write, I love them, too. I mean that sincerely.

Your first post is a bit esoteric, and maybe it's just because we're in such different places, or maybe it's because what you're going through is so personal. Now that I think about it, maybe it's because your words were all bottled up! Or probably, it's just me. And that you're going through some remarkably tough time.

I guess I'm just saying that I wish I could offer some specific support but I don't know how. But that's okay. I'm here.

I'm really grateful you're here. Do you know what it means to me to see someone write here that they haven't been drunk in 4 years? Because, in part, of baclofen. And you're on of the early, early people...

There are others, some I know and some I sorta know and some who have just moved on. But, to be honest, just like in all recovery/treatment, I know way more that have been...lost.

I'm going to double post because I lost what I wanted to quote.

[guardian]

Re: Trying to become Real before I become too loose in the joints and shabby

[MENTION=12976]Ne/Neva Eva[/MENTION]

You're the one who suggested that I write more.

...and the 1st one is actually eclectic lol. It was pieced together from a few other things that I had written in a Word document because this forum times out after 6 seconds. Long story short, I knew I needed to get things started, but knew if I started proofreading and editing that I'd scrap it and it would be another 10 years and lots of anger and tears before I was back. So I just put it down. I was having a really hard time. Still am, but I'm being gentle with myself.

[guardian]

Re: Trying to become Real before I become too loose in the joints and shabby

Double post

[guardian]

Re: Trying to become Real before I become too loose in the joints and shabby

Also Emerson: "Speak what you think now in hard words and tomorrow speak what tomorrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said today."

If you cannot change your own mind, you can change nothing.

I love that.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Re: Trying to become Real before I become too loose in the joints and shabby

...
I allowed it; didn't feel ashamed. Not entitled to anything because of it, but it wasn't wrong. I grew. And right now, what I am feeling, allowing myself to feel without judgement, I am growing. I can fucking feel it. But there is a lesson too,

So much of doctrine is in the blame/shame game. I really dislike that. Because I think it wounds so many of us that are already wounded. Don't plant thoughts in my head about how horrible I am, and leave me no option but to not only give up the only thing that's worked to quiet those voices, but also to accept blame? or become a victim? There has to be some middle ground. That said, I haven't found CBT to be particularly helpful either.

Back to your comment that I quoted. I loved what you wrote, up until that last part. I'm no guru, but I've listened to enough of them to parrot them back to you. The lesson, I think, is that you allowed it. You didn't feel shame. You didn't feel entitled. And ffs, it wasn't wrong.

If I could feel without judgment for just one second, I'd be a guru. We all would. No lessons to be had.

That said. Are you growing away from what has kept you from being drunk for 4 years? I hate to be the voice the many people who told me, "I told you so" when things began to go haywire for me. But I hear their voices ringing daily. And I'm trying to get back to what worked for me for 4+ years, before a profound relapse and subsequent alcoholism-induced life.

AA, or therapy, or whatever combination of whatever worked for you for 4 years. But it wasn't specifically MWO. And it wasn't only baclofen. I don't remember your story, and it irritates me that much of our history on the meds threads has been erased, but you were here before me, and you got where you needed to be to deal with what you're going through without blame and shame or the bottom of a bottle. So rock on. Post about whatever you want. You're a vital connection for me right now.

So, thank you.