A LONG AND PAINFUL JEARNEY

[Guest]

A LONG AND PAINFUL JEARNEY

ECHOME, no, I cannot condone violence, but I do believe that everyone deserves a second chance, especially when they have been violent through alcohol abuse and have pledged never to drink again.

I mean.........who the fuck is perfect around here????!!!!!

Please come back.

I BELIEVE IN YOU AND WILL SUPPORT YOU.

Starlight Impress x

[nancy]

A LONG AND PAINFUL JEARNEY

I wasn't going to post on this, but oh well

First I agree that of course it is fine to post threads about yourself. I think people do that when they feel desperate and we should not attack them for it.

Echome obviously feels a lot of guilt for hurting innocent people and is freaked out about it.

I also agree that violence and alcohol abuse go hand-in-hand. Some women become violent when they drink. And women certainly become verbally abusive when they drink. So that isn't bad? of course it's bad. We have had pregnant women posting about their drinking problems and they have been attacked by some members who say that is wrong. of course it is, but people are coming here to get help for their problems. What about drinking and driving with a child in the back seat? There are tons of examples of behavior that could kill or maim people on this website. Let alone the emotional scars on kids who see their parents drunk all the time.

It seems that Bootcamp is assuming years of physical abuse here. I thought echome said there was the first incident? I thought he said he had never done this before. Years of problems he referrred to, I imagined related to the drinking. Lots of women have posted similar threads about their husbands screaming at them for horrible years and we supported them. I hope there is not a gender bias on our website.

With all due respect, I think Boots and Kate are projecting and jumping to some conclusions. Alcohol abuse can be violent. Battering is another problem. Lots of people are perfectly sedate while sober and turn into animals when they are drunk. I think boots and others jumped to a lot of conclusions about this situation.

I also think innocent people need to be protected in these situations. The solution here is for his wife to stay away from him until he has this problem in check. So we shouldn't be telling him to reconcile and how much his wife probably loves him. And no 15 days isn't enough. We all know that. Her life could be at stake.

This forum is meant to offer help to people with a spectrum of problems. I imagine the guilt of abusing someone while drunk must be horrible. Our advice should be to help hiim recover and let her recover separately. He may never be safe to come home, depending on whether he gets to grips with this.

[betty boop]

A LONG AND PAINFUL JEARNEY

Echome..... please check in ............

When we welcome new members we ask them to post if they need help .....

I wasn't aware that there is a limit on asking for help???????

Kate I am truly sorry for the abuse that you have suffered but I am sickened at you punishing Echome for it .... I would imagine that you have never done anything that you have regretted???

Regards, BB

[Guest]

A LONG AND PAINFUL JEARNEY

Totally agree with your perspective, Nancy.

Each and every one of us here have inflicted "scars" on others, whether physical or emotional.......we have all hurt others through our drinking.

My initial reply post to ECHOME was to tell him that he may well reconcile with his wife in the future, but that it would take time, and his only hope of doing so would be dependent upon him being able to remain sober and prove to her that he will become a much better man. So yes, it`s true what you say, that it is not our business to try to reconcile them.......that possibility remains entirely in ECHOME`s own hands.

But what we can and must do, as you have already said, is support each other in any way we can into sobriety or controlled drinking

We have a common affliction..........let us embrace our common bond in the hope that we shall all recover.

Starlight Impress x

[chrysa]

A LONG AND PAINFUL JEARNEY

I completely understand where Kate H is coming from and support her view and her right to say this. Tawn I diagree on this one. I do not think Kate "set out to deliberately hurt someone when they are down". I think she is trying to help him.

There is a time & place in the life of an addict & those that are helping him or her to get tough. Sometimes it is the best medicine they can receive. And it hurts to do it. You know you are taking a risk but sometimes it is time to buckle up & step up -- for both the helper and the sick person.

I learned this while dealing with my daughter & young people.

Kate may have some intuition about Echo. I did the same thing in PM to a young man and he was furious at first & I got huge amount of flack for it on the boards, but he & I are now friends. He says that it helped. I hope so.

Also, Kate is talking to a man, not a woman.

I did not read bootcamp's remarks. I don't think Kate or boot are projecting . I choose to think they are simply trying to help.

If I was related to Echo I would say the same thing. Get up, stand up, stop whining, be a man. Do it instead of say it. Walk the talk.

And I hope so much that he will walk the talk, as tough as it is.

[Lucy Van Pelt]

A LONG AND PAINFUL JEARNEY

Well...I just have to make a comment here....

With all of our wonderful arguments back and forth on this issue....

HAS ANYONE EVEN NOTICED THAT ECHOME HASN'T BEEN HERE SINCE 9/30 ?????? TODAY IS 10/11!!!!!

SO, what has all this done?? Certainly, I would venture to guess, it hasn't helped echome become any more sober... I would further venture, he is not likely to come back here and open up to us anytime soon...and therefore, what do you suppose the chances are that he will actually be as effective on working out the issues which promote anger and alcohol abuse? I didn't think this was a forum to judge our morals on behaviors NOT currently occuring, but a place to support our mutual fight against the drink in the HERE AND NOW.

sorry, but I just think this whole think stinks....My opinion...nothing more.

respectfully,

Beth

[chrysa]

A LONG AND PAINFUL JEARNEY

Wise analysis Nancy.
Beth...you are right. It is upsettting. He will probably be back. Has anyone heard from him?

[iowegian]

A LONG AND PAINFUL JEARNEY

I think Beth said it quite well. I can't imagine many things more degrading than having your most worst moments turned into a heated public debate.

Respectfully,
Morgan

[Guest]

A LONG AND PAINFUL JEARNEY

I sent ECHOME a pm, as I`m sure many more members will have done.

Starlight Impress x

[bootcampbarbie]

A LONG AND PAINFUL JEARNEY

to quote you nancy:
It seems that Bootcamp is assuming years of physical abuse here. I thought echome said there was the first incident? I thought he said he had never done this before. Years of problems he referrred to, I imagined related to the drinking. Lots of women have posted similar threads about their husbands screaming at them for horrible years and we supported them. I hope there is not a gender bias on our website.
not sure what the gender bias comment is about. i'm basing my observation out of working as a counselor and seeing over 1000 men and women as a battered men and women counseler and reading his thread. very unlikely as to what was described that someone throws a head butt on the very first abuse situation, very unlikely, and highly unlikely that leads to a restraining order in which she will not even allow him to see the child, and then very unlikely as he describes how terrified she is to see him in a very public situation when he is sober. these situations tell me of someone who is volatile not only when abusing but is volatile all the time and it is a progressive situation and perpetual. try renting burning bed or reading the book it is a highly educational book. they start say with pinching and progress up. if it is a normal situation then it is a say thing that happens while drunk and never repeats itself. but with mental illness the rate in which one can be cured is very very slim. it isn't like anger management. it is a disease. and yes, it is for me something that as a perpetrator sorry guys i have no space for like i have no space for o.j. simpson or phil spector, or any number of people that while remorseful if they came to the boards and are clearly users. i simply do not have it in me to say yes, i can work with you because you are trying to work through your alcoholism knowing that you are also likely to go back out and do what you are going to do again because i know exactly what that other mental illness does. since i work in that field. so you can have all the opinions that you want of me and since echo has been here for a few weeks and i've been here for many have alot of opinions about me. i think i've tried to be here for a lot of you. but i will not give up my stance as i am clear about what i would bet my bottom dollar on. and i posted my post i believe on the 8th. so i haven't a clue beth where he's been since the 30th. but i don't bellieve i'm in any way responsible for his sobriety or lack there of. that's why he's in a treatment facility. and kate, for the record i think that you are entitled to your views. you have come on here and been supportive over the months of alot of people. and for people to beat up on you over a guy that beat up on his wife is fucking pathetic. and i'm embarrased for them. really embarrased for them. you are one of the kindest most amazing women i know. and for those nites i didn't think i was going to make it through and you helped me through it. i just want to say thank you. and for people to actually personally attack you. amazing. i don't even want to come back to these boards.

[Guest]

A LONG AND PAINFUL JEARNEY

We should not be allowing this to divide us at all.........we are here to help each other with our alcohol dependency, independent of all else.

The "mistake" ECHOME may have made here was confessing to his wrongs.........he will not be alone here in that he`s been violent through drink.

And, I appreciate that restraining orders are only granted with good reason, but who`s to say this man cannot atone for his wrongs and live a good life from here on in?

Starlight Impress x

[chrysa]

A LONG AND PAINFUL JEARNEY

I listen to professionals in their field. Don't see point in leaving bootcamp -- if it is more positive than negative for you here??

[Accountable for Me]

A LONG AND PAINFUL JEARNEY

Let's agree to disagree here and let this thread die.

We know what is right and what is wrong, but we are losing focus of what this site is for -- helping us and others to over come their problems with alcohol.

and.... for what it is worth I had a concerning email from a new member yesterday. She is feeling very distraught about the way newer members are being treated here by some of the not so new members. She and her friend (another person on this board) are feeling like there is quite a bit of newby bashing going on -- or plain neglect/oversight of newbies' posts because of stuff like this.

She was also feeling very distraught that people can be so cold in their remarks towards others.

This thread is a prime example of it. We are not setting an example for members here whether they are new or not. I know if I had been browsing around the last few days, I would 'high tail' it out of here. This is to be a supportive, loving, compassionate place!

'Thou shall not judge until you walk a mile in their shoes'. If I quoted this quote wrong, oh well - never been good at them anyway, but like it nonetheless.

Let's get back to the task at hand and start healing! :l

[magic]

A LONG AND PAINFUL JEARNEY

Because he is a violent abuser.

Even with years and years of therapy, they rarely change. Sobriety and anger management will not help him.

He knows this and came here to have women support him while only telling half of the truth, if that.

His posts are carefully worded and the 'time line' is perfect.

I have wanted to post since Echo appeared. But now I sit fuming.

Abuse is like so many other things in life, you have to have lived through it to understand it.

Echo is manipulating the board and has been all along.

Thanks for your post Boots.

magic xx

[Accountable for Me]

A LONG AND PAINFUL JEARNEY

Now that we all have expressed our thoughts --- let this friggin thread die already!