Need help for my brother - please read

[susanna]

hi - I have been nursing my brother since Sunday - he has a relapse and this time his withdrawal is the worse I've seen. But he hasn't actually stopped drinking - using AL to taper off - but is in major misery. This relapse was no where near as long or as strong as past ones - he hadn't consumed multiple bottles of hard liquor, nor for as long - maybe 2 hard days with a 26 oz and beer - and now he is having the hardest time ever getting out of this.

He started baclofen on Tuesday too - low dose - today he will take 30 mgs.
But in the mean time for six days straight he has been moaning constantly, fever, body spasms, vomitting (that stopped yesterday thank God). Hard to get him to eat or drink water much because much of the time he is incoherent or moaning. He's doesn't want to drink to get drunk but it seems that's the amount he needs to manage withdrawals and yet he is still really suffering from WD symptoms.

The bac is supposed to act in the same ways as Valium but it seems to not be working yet for WD symptoms. He doesn't want to take Benzo bc he knows he will still need AL and doesn't want the mixture of the two.

In your experience what could be going on? When he has relapsed in the past his cycle of becoming functional again has never been so intense. Has anyone had such a long period of recovering from a relapse?

[Sheepish]

Need help for my brother - please read

Susanna
I am not a doctor, nor have I taken baclofen- however I think you may be mistaken in that baclofen and valium do NOT act in the same way. Please-it sounds like your brother could be in need of actual medical evaluation. You are doing a good thing by taking care of him- however, your description of his condition sounds like he requires medical intervention now.
Take care
-Sheep

[JackieClaire]

Need help for my brother - please read

Susanna,
I'm not a doctor,either. Nor have I taken baclofen.

I know you're trying to help your brother and keep him safe, but like sheepish ,I really think it's time to get medical help.

[greeneyes]

Need help for my brother - please read

I agree with sheepish. I think medical attention is in order. ASAP

[susanna]

Need help for my brother - please read

I have the ativan - he won't take it.

In Canada getting medical help for addiction is a bureaucratic process - and we've been to many ER rooms - they'll give him valium and a saline drip after 3-5 hours sitting in agony in a waiting room. I have the medicine but he won't take it.

So I assume you are saying that you have not experienced this long a WD session before?

[tom4now]

Need help for my brother - please read

you have to take charge

oh my god ive posted so many time to you but here it goes again....pretty much 90% of people detox with Benzo's its the medically the aprroved saftest way to go...he should not be on the Baclofen for right now and the detox off of the alcohol....I would not in this case Because he is so ill from this last binge use any balofen right now...it will proably make things wores when he is this sick...do you have detox units you can get your brother into?...we have them here there great indiscreet and medical profesional...look on the net in your area...here on the westcoast of Canada there all over the palce and free...im quite puzzeled your brother will not stop drinking and switch over to a relatively painless ride off...has he adverse reactions to benzo's?...one thing you should not do is continue to drink with them...that is deadly however it is safe to quit the alcohol and jump right away on to the benzo and detox yourself....people post they can drink with Baclofen and I know that is true I have my self...but I belive what your saying is your brother has been on a serious binge now and his body is getting really fricking sick...hes not the right canadit for a course of Baclofen yet...best option is to ship him off to detox...or go to emergency at your local hospital and they will help him in the same way...he has to be literly forced to have no more alcohol buttttt only when hes got the supsitute in ready (Benzo's)...bottom line ishe has options abound....its sounding like professional help is now in order!

good luck

[JackieClaire]

Need help for my brother - please read

Susanna,

I have done valium (diazapam) detox at least 5 times and the WD's have never lasted more than 3 days.

[Sheepish]

Need help for my brother - please read

Susanna
If your brother is that ill- he may require the kind of detox you describe. (valium and saline drip) I do not know why you are fighting with him in his state (you say 'he refuses to take the ativan). Obviously he is not in his right mind to make these kinds of decisions- his best thinking got him to where he is. Please take control and take your brother to a hospital. And if you can't- then you can't. However, continuing to experiment with meds without medical supervision is an unwise route.
Good luck to you and your brother-
-Sheep

[mario]

Need help for my brother - please read

Susanna, The symptoms of alcohol withdrawal are exceptionally unpleasant, as I’m sure you know.
if you’re physically dependent on alcohol, then a sudden withdrawal as opposed to a gradual detox if you are drinking over 70 units per week for a woman or 100 for a man,can cause serious and permanent damage,maybe even death
you really should get some medical support for your brother before you consider putting him through withdrawing, asap

[susanna]

Need help for my brother - please read

mario;846211 wrote: Susanna, The symptoms of alcohol withdrawal are exceptionally unpleasant, as I?m sure you know.
if you?re physically dependent on alcohol, then a sudden withdrawal as opposed to a gradual detox if you are drinking over 70 units per week for a woman or 100 for a man,can cause serious and permanent damage,maybe even death
you really should get some medical support for your brother before you consider putting him through withdrawing, asap

Thanks for the suggestions and comments -
-he took the ativan and is now sleeping soundly.
-we ave been consulting the doctor in Chicago and he has been consistenting advising that Paul keep drinking, and keep taking Baclofen. So I hope that helps with those of you who wonder why we continue to do so - it's been due to medical advice of the only doctor we can find who will support the bacolfen program.

He is now sedated and calm after a day of challenges.

And BC is not Ontario - Ontario actually has significantly less resources, is old world in it's treatement mentality, and many people go for treatment in BC Quebec and US states because of this.

[susanna]

Need help for my brother - please read

tom4now;846206 wrote: oh my god ive posted so many time to you but here it goes again....pretty much 90% of people detox with Benzo's its the medically the aprroved saftest way to go...he should not be on the Baclofen for right now and the detox off of the alcohol....I would not in this case Because he is so ill from this last binge use any balofen right now...it will proably make things wores when he is this sick...do you have detox units you can get your brother into?...we have them here there great indiscreet and medical profesional...look on the net in your area...here on the westcoast of Canada there all over the palce and free...im quite puzzeled your brother will not stop drinking and switch over to a relatively painless ride off...has he adverse reactions to benzo's?...one thing you should not do is continue to drink with them...that is deadly however it is safe to quit the alcohol and jump right away on to the benzo and detox yourself....people post they can drink with Baclofen and I know that is true I have my self...but I belive what your saying is your brother has been on a serious binge now and his body is getting really fricking sick...hes not the right canadit for a course of Baclofen yet...best option is to ship him off to detox...or go to emergency at your local hospital and they will help him in the same way...he has to be literly forced to have no more alcohol buttttt only when hes got the supsitute in ready (Benzo's)...bottom line ishe has options abound....its sounding like professional help is now in order!

good luck

I am aware of this - having been to ER with Paul over a dozen times. Paul doesn't respond well to valium - ativan may be different as it has shorter half life. Most peeps here, and the Dr who is advising/prescribing him with BAC, advises that he not try to stop drinking while starting up on Bac.

[Sheepish]

Need help for my brother - please read

Susanna
Has the doctor that is prescribing baclofen over the phone ever MET or medically evaluated your brother? It sounds to me like you are looking for the answer that you WANT to hear- and that is that the baclofen is the correct choice. It is impossible to help 2 people (your brother and yourself) who ask for opinions that are then dismissed out of hand in the hopes of hearing the one that will suit them. As you have described your brothers circumstance- it sounds as if he could do with some kind of medical assistance while going through a very difficult detox. (which Mario rightly pointed out as dangerous) I am not a doctor- however, it seems to me that from your previous posts your brother wishes to continue drinking (hence the baclofen was started...)
This all sounds like a misguided plan- In my opinion, if your brother was serious about detoxing safely, he should be seen by a medical doctor. I find it tough to believe that is impossible where you live.
I will bow out now.
Best wishes to you both.
-Sheep

[susanna]

Need help for my brother - please read

I just realized I forgot to share a significant piece of info.
Last Sept he had a bad relapse - in and out of ER's. And one of the doctors who was a first class ass, treated like a criminal. And then sent a letter in to our Licensing office advising that his license should be suspended. And so that's what happened - his license was suspended for "medical reasons". Paul does not have a car, and does not drive when drinking. He does however occassionally need to be able to drive for work. Paul is now in this ridiculous place where he has to either take this to a tribunal and prove that he is not a medical driving risk, or go for monthly blood test for a YEAR - showing zero consumption of alcholo - before he will get his license back. So - he is afraid now to go to an ER or any doctor for help because he doesn't know if this will somehow make it;s way to the Licensing Bureau.

How is that for a twisted show of support from the medical system. There's thousands of people driving around under the influence, getting busted for DUIs, getting off with the help of a good lawyer and not loosing their license. Paul makes a concerted life decision not to own a car so that there is no risk of DUI and this happens to him because he went to ER for withdrawal support.

And therefore will not go again to ER. I am so angry with the dr that pulled that move - i want to wring his neck - and someday he will get a letter, that will also go the Board of Directors of that hospital - outlining the ignorance of his attitude, treatment and actions.

[Sheepish]

Need help for my brother - please read

Well I guess if he is dead he won't be able to drive a car either.
If his license is suspended anyway- then why does it matter?
You seem determined to be the one providing all of the reasons he cannot see a doctor- enabling this to go on.
NOW I am bowing out.
Sorry for the tough words- but I don't get it.
Best of luck to you
-Sheep

[susanna]

Need help for my brother - please read

Sheepish;846340 wrote: Well I guess if he is dead he won't be able to drive a car either.
If his license is suspended anyway- then why does it matter?
You seem determined to be the one providing all of the reasons he cannot see a doctor- enabling this to go on.
NOW I am bowing out.
Sorry for the tough words- but I don't get it.
Best of luck to you
-Sheep

You are correct - you don't get it. But I know you are trying to help. I don't need to create reasons - my brother is a strong willed, stubborn and determined guy -sound familiar? I don't try to make decisions for him because it would be a waste of time since he will not do what he won't do (sound familiar?), and since he has to commit to whatever process he goes through. I really don't need an AA-based lecture -but I do understand why you are reacting this way.

I am going to cut this thread now - I got the advise needed and we're on a better track now.