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**JackieClaire** · May 29, 2014, 01:19 AM

Please, simple questions about alcohol detox dosage and avoiding addiction

Hi Alien,

Usual disclaimer I'm not a doctor etc but I have been through a good few diazapam (valium ) de-toxes the last one being a home one in July 2009 and I've been AF ever since.

I'm in the UK so many doctors are extremely reluctant to prescribe valium for more than a 10 day and normally at very low doses. So I've no knowledge of benzo addiction, sorry.

I started at much higher doses tapering to zero over 8 days.

My detox started;
Day 1: 10mg x 4 a day
Day 2: 10mg x 4 a day
Day 3: 10mg morning and bedtime, 5mg lunchtime and early evening
Day 4: 5mg x 4 a day
Day 5: 5mg x 4 a day
Day 6: 5mg x 2 a day
Day 7: 5mg x 2 a day
Day 8: 5mg x 1 a day

And then nothing. I know that the first 72 hours of a de-tox are critical and the likelihood of a seizure is at its peak.............but I see you've got through those first few days without one.

Now this is my and my opinion only.......its likely to be safe to taper down to zero over the next 2-3 days. Obviously if there is any and I mean any symptoms you just cannot cope with talk to a medic.

Let me know how it goes.

**Alien** · May 29, 2014, 02:33 AM

Please, simple questions about alcohol detox dosage and avoiding addiction

JackieClaire;1665844 wrote: Hi Alien,

Usual disclaimer I'm not a doctor etc but I have been through a good few diazapam (valium ) de-toxes the last one being a home one in July 2009 and I've been AF ever since.

I'm in the UK so many doctors are extremely reluctant to prescribe valium for more than a 10 day and normally at very low doses. So I've no knowledge of benzo addiction, sorry.

I started at much higher doses tapering to zero over 8 days.

My detox started;
Day 1: 10mg x 4 a day
Day 2: 10mg x 4 a day
Day 3: 10mg morning and bedtime, 5mg lunchtime and early evening
Day 4: 5mg x 4 a day
Day 5: 5mg x 4 a day
Day 6: 5mg x 2 a day
Day 7: 5mg x 2 a day
Day 8: 5mg x 1 a day

And then nothing. I know that the first 72 hours of a de-tox are critical and the likelihood of a seizure is at its peak.............but I see you've got through those first few days without one.

Now this is my and my opinion only.......its likely to be safe to taper down to zero over the next 2-3 days. Obviously if there is any and I mean any symptoms you just cannot cope with talk to a medic.

Let me know how it goes.

Thank you so much for this post, it answered every question I have been asking myself over and over. I am hyper aware of physical symptoms so I am sure if anything feels out of whack I'll be seeing my doc. But for the moment, BP is steady, HR fine, still smoking and drinking tea.

I plan to be off them by Monday/Tuesday next week, which would be smack bang on 8-9 days. I'm in Australia, but for some reason doctors love to prescribe diazepam for anything from AIDs to shingles (little joke). So my schedule in my mind looks like:

3.75/3.75/2.5/2.5 (today)
2.5/2.5/2.5/2.5
2.5/2.5/2.5/2.5
3.75/2.5
2.5/2.5
2.5

Does this seem reasonable after having 4x5mg for 4 days??

Thanks so much! :thanks:

**JackieClaire** · May 29, 2014, 02:28 PM

Please, simple questions about alcohol detox dosage and avoiding addiction

Alien;1665853 wrote: Thank you so much for this post, it answered every question I have been asking myself over and over. I am hyper aware of physical symptoms so I am sure if anything feels out of whack I'll be seeing my doc. But for the moment, BP is steady, HR fine, still smoking and drinking tea.

I plan to be off them by Monday/Tuesday next week, which would be smack bang on 8-9 days. I'm in Australia, but for some reason doctors love to prescribe diazepam for anything from AIDs to shingles (little joke). So my schedule in my mind looks like:

3.75/3.75/2.5/2.5 (today)
2.5/2.5/2.5/2.5
2.5/2.5/2.5/2.5
3.75/2.5
2.5/2.5
2.5

Does this seem reasonable after having 4x5mg for 4 days??

Thanks so much! :thanks:

Sounds like a plan to me, and a good one at that.

Try and keep caffeine to a minimum, eat little and often and let yourself indulge in a few treats like ice cream and chocolate. Sleep will probably be a bit iffy for a while so rest when you can. Just be kind to yourself..

**Alien** · May 31, 2014, 12:26 AM

Please, simple questions about alcohol detox dosage and avoiding addiction

JackieClaire;1666017 wrote: Sounds like a plan to me, and a good one at that.

Try and keep caffeine to a minimum, eat little and often and let yourself indulge in a few treats like ice cream and chocolate. Sleep will probably be a bit iffy for a while so rest when you can. Just be kind to yourself..

Thanks so much!

Quick update- am slightly behind schedule on my tapering. Probably drinking too much tea and smoking too much (3 cups/day/pack a day).

I don't feel weird, seizural, shaky or emotional. No panic attacks even down to 10-12mg/day. I still get depressed before my prior usual drinking time, and I have a strange feeling when I move my head or eyes too quickly. Have been going for walks twice a day, 25 min for the first time in a month. And sleeping 7h/night.

Still concerned I might have some sort of seizure or something, but I don't know why. Maybe some latent anxiety. I feel great after drinking my morning and evening cups of tea.

7 days alcohol free now. Here's how the last few days of the Diazepam has gone:

[previous post, in mg]:
Admission to hospital- 1
Day 1 - 5/5/5/5
Day 2 - 5/5/5/5
Day 3 - 5/5/5/5
Day 4 - 5/5/5/5
Day 5 - 3.75/5/3.75

Last two days have been like this (in MG):

DAY 6 - 5/2.5/2/2.5
Day 7 - 2.5/2/2.5/5

Still planning 2.5/2.5/2.5/3.75 (or 2.5) tomorrow, 2.5/2.5/2.5 the next day,

And then 3.75/2.5 the day after.

Not sure if this is progress or not. Would appreciate advice to avoid dependance/adverse effects etc.

**Alien** · June 3, 2014, 07:19 PM

Please, simple questions about alcohol detox dosage and avoiding addiction

Hi all, just an update and a quick request for advice.

I am now on day 11 AF, and yesterday's dosage of diazepam was 2.5mg lunch 3.75 bedtime.

For the last three days my BP has been 140+ over 80+ and resting HR at 110. This is abnormal for me. I've had it tested 3x a day and the readings change very little. I have no other side effects, except slight anxiety over my HR.

Here has been my taper schedule (in mg):

(last sixpack of beer) then:
Day 1 - 5/5/5/5
Day 2 - 5/5/5/5
Day 3 - 5/5/5/5
Day 4 - 5/5/5/5
Day 5 - 3.75/5/3.75
DAY 6 - 5/2.5/2/2.5
Day 7 - 2.5/2/2.5/4.5
Day 8 - 2.5/2.5/4
Day 9 - 2.5/2/3.75
Day 10 - 2.5/3.75
Day 11 - 1.25

Does anyone know why I would be consistently having a high heart rate (100-120) and high bp (over 135/80)? Is it related to my taper schedule?

Even when drinking every night for 8+ years I could walk/jog 1 hr + and work out 3x a week. Now, I can barely walk to the end of the block without my heart going nuts. Any advice? :thanks:

**JackieClaire** · June 4, 2014, 03:31 AM

Please, simple questions about alcohol detox dosage and avoiding addiction

Hi Alien, so sorry I didn't get back to you sooner.

So I'm taking it as read that today's the last of the valium (diazapam) so the threat of an alcohol seizure are gone or would be extremely rare..............mind you remember I'm not a doctor just know more that I'd like to about de-toxing.

Now my first thoughts are that after drinking heavily for so many years....in your case 8 ............our bodies and brains will adjust to the daily abuse we give it. I suppose that's where we get the term functional alcoholic from.

So now you're 11/12 days AF (well done btw) and your body is probably in a bit of shock and confusion that you are denying it's favourite thing.........it took us a while to develop our alcohol problems so its going to take a while to start feeling like a human being again...............I'm not talking years.........things will change every day.

Now try as I might I just cannot find anything about short use diazapam dependency...........I'm assuming the only problem is long term usage............but I hate assuming anything so I'll continue to look.

And a final thought..................going AF is very scary and will produce some anxiety.............I was scared to death at first as I thought it was the end of my life as I had known it................was I wrong.

Now then get yourself to the medics get those readings checked and take care of you.

**YouKayBee** · June 4, 2014, 04:52 AM

Please, simple questions about alcohol detox dosage and avoiding addiction

Alien;1667909 wrote: Hi all, just an update and a quick request for advice.

I am now on day 11 AF, and yesterday's dosage of diazepam was 2.5mg lunch 3.75 bedtime.

For the last three days my BP has been 140+ over 80+ and resting HR at 110. This is abnormal for me. I've had it tested 3x a day and the readings change very little. I have no other side effects, except slight anxiety over my HR.

Here has been my taper schedule (in mg):

(last sixpack of beer) then:
Day 1 - 5/5/5/5
Day 2 - 5/5/5/5
Day 3 - 5/5/5/5
Day 4 - 5/5/5/5
Day 5 - 3.75/5/3.75
DAY 6 - 5/2.5/2/2.5
Day 7 - 2.5/2/2.5/4.5
Day 8 - 2.5/2.5/4
Day 9 - 2.5/2/3.75
Day 10 - 2.5/3.75
Day 11 - 1.25

Does anyone know why I would be consistently having a high heart rate (100-120) and high bp (over 135/80)? Is it related to my taper schedule?

Even when drinking every night for 8+ years I could walk/jog 1 hr + and work out 3x a week. Now, I can barely walk to the end of the block without my heart going nuts. Any advice? :thanks:

Racing heart I found was a symptom of reducing alcohol intake, I have also had this after shock or traumatic incident, even just something like a fall out with partner and I think it's a normal reaction to general 'upset'. You no longer have the sedative alcohol to dampen down nervous activity. If it continues definitley seek medical help.

How's your eating and caffeine intake (caffeine is in tea, coffee, chocolate and energy drinks).

**Alien** · June 16, 2014, 08:02 PM

Please, simple questions about alcohol detox dosage and avoiding addiction

Hi all, sorry for my delayed reply. Just been trying to survive and ground myself through all of this.

After a thorough investigation through daily monitoring of blood pressure and glucose levels, and a LOT of reading (as no doctors seem to be competent enough to diagnose, they're only interested in proscribing more meds) it seems as if the following are true:

a) My loading dose of 20mg was too high initially, as some of my symptoms on the night could have been my pancreas over/under compensating for all the sugar/sudden lack of sugar.

b) Cutting down so quickly from such a high dose was a bad idea. Everything has more or less stablised over the last couple of weeks. I have very little to no anxiety anymore, and even though I have chronic pain, it's a nice change to not have both infused together.

c) I may be slightly hypoglycemic. My fasting, before and after meal readings have been low until I began exercising again (I've gone from walking to jogging to running within a couple of weeks) and started on slow release carbs and plenty of starch and protein again.

JackieClaire;1668011 wrote: Hi Alien, so sorry I didn't get back to you sooner.

So I'm taking it as read that today's the last of the valium (diazapam)

--

Now my first thoughts are that after drinking heavily for so many years....in your case 8 ............our bodies and brains will adjust to the daily abuse we give it. I suppose that's where we get the term functional alcoholic from.

So now you're 11/12 days AF (well done btw) and your body is probably in a bit of shock and confusion that you are denying it's favourite thing.........it took us a while to develop our alcohol problems so its going to take a while to start feeling like a human being again...............I'm not talking years.........things will change every day.

Now try as I might I just cannot find anything about short use diazapam dependency...........I'm assuming the only problem is long term usage............but I hate assuming anything so I'll continue to look.

And a final thought..................going AF is very scary and will produce some anxiety.............I was scared to death at first as I thought it was the end of my life as I had known it................was I wrong.

Now then get yourself to the medics get those readings checked and take care of you.
YouKayBee;1668031 wrote:
How's your eating and caffeine intake (caffeine is in tea, coffee, chocolate and energy drinks).

I've cut down my caffeine to two cups of tea a day. I've also halved my smoking, and I don't drink energy drinks. Only eating dark chocolate, one piece, once a day. Previously, it was double or triple that. I also have stopped drinking an entire 375ml bottle of gatorade a day, only using it after exercise.

I'm currently on 1.75 - 2.5mg Diazepam a night (after the shock to my body of cutting down so quickly, I've removed an average of 0.5mg - 0.75mg a day from my dose each three days). Sleeping is okay now, I sleep a little less and they don't sedate me or seem to have any physiological effect.

I'm starting to feel "relatively" normal now. I use inverted commas, as relative is comparing to how I felt before I started drinking, and that was a long time ago, and before I had chronic pain. The anxiety is nearly non-existent, and same with the other troubles - it seems everything balances out, given time, and despite a few remaining bad habits.

It's been nearly a month without alcohol and despite having a clearer head, I truly miss it. Not the act of drinking, but the sedation effect (as my pain is the worst at night - the reason I began functionally drinking). I don't know if I'll ever feel confident I can be a social drinker, or have one or two drinks on my own... after my experiences it's the last thing on my mind, and I'll just take each day as best I can.

Thanks so much for all the help and advice, this is an amazing community.

**Byrdlady** · June 16, 2014, 08:21 PM

Please, simple questions about alcohol detox dosage and avoiding addiction

Hey, glad to see you are hanging in there.
I was just watching an amazing and informative video posted by NoSugar over in the Newbies Nest. (Link below). It was speaking to the actual neuroscience behind addiction. You will find it very informative. The addicted brain remembers just where you left off last time, no matter how much times has passed. We go right back to those levels and more. It makes a lot of sense when you see it presented like that.

All of us wish that we could return to normal drinking, or at least partake on special occasions, but alas....would you expect that a heroin addict could do that? No, certainly not. Al is no different. A lot of this journey involves which voices to listen to. (The ones in your head, the ones on this site, the ones in real life). Denial and bullshitting yourself will only cost you time. Trying every way to make Al fit into my life nearly cost me everything. I hate that I hung onto it for so long. Only when I completely let go, was I able to be free. I hate Al for what it has done to me and my friends here. See it for what it is: a drug that is going to kill us if we continue using it. I understand the enormous pull and attraction it has, but you can break free, and its a wonderful thing. We are here for you!!! Check out that video, it was an eye opener. Byrdie

**Alien** · June 23, 2014, 03:44 AM

Please, simple questions about alcohol detox dosage and avoiding addiction

Thanks for your personal insight and experience, I suppose that's probably a long way off for me so I'll concern myself with the possibilities in the future.

For now I have another question about the Diazepam.

The high loading dosage they put me on (20-25mg for 1 week) I came off too quickly, down to 5mg by the third week (as mentioned). This may or may not have been causing all of my crazy symptoms.

I've been cutting down around 0.5 - 0.75 every 3 days, and now I'm on 1.5mg a night.

My question is, now that I've been on them for a total of a month, will it be okay to continue cutting down 0.5 - 0.75 every 3 days until zero?

All of the forum posts I've read are much longer-term users, and I've had to stop reading them as there are some forums with threads 20 pages long of people "stuck" on 1mg. To me, this seems ridiculous. I was preparing to cut from 1.5 to 0.75, but now I'm not sure. Is 1 month enough for me to get a physical dependance? Or do I just need to get off Dr. Google and drop them before I do get one? Thanks all.:thanks:

**JackieClaire** · June 23, 2014, 04:27 AM

Please, simple questions about alcohol detox dosage and avoiding addiction

Wondered where you'd got to.

Oh yes............step away from Dr Google.

Well I got my answer.....I asked my pharmacist.......he'd never heard of physical diazapam dependence at such a low dosage. It's more likely to be psychological..............you're just hanging onto that last pill so to speak.

Relatively 'normal' is good after a month AF. The lack of sleep I'm afraid seems to be a price we pay for knocking ourselves with alcohol for years.................it will get better. Honest.

I've got to say over the last year or so I've found my pharmacist a mine of information and they really know their stuff and they like talking about their knowledge. So I don't hesitate to ring if I'm puzzling over something.

Now if you need to Google start looking for ways to relax, buy some hypno tapes.............a bit healthier don't you think?

**Alien** · June 23, 2014, 04:38 AM

Please, simple questions about alcohol detox dosage and avoiding addiction

JackieClaire;1674938 wrote: Wondered where you'd got to.

Oh yes............step away from Dr Google.

Well I got my answer.....I asked my pharmacist.......he'd never heard of physical diazapam dependence at such a low dosage. It's more likely to be psychological..............you're just hanging onto that last pill so to speak.

Relatively 'normal' is good after a month AF. The lack of sleep I'm afraid seems to be a price we pay for knocking ourselves with alcohol for years.................it will get better. Honest.

I've got to say over the last year or so I've found my pharmacist a mine of information and they really know their stuff and they like talking about their knowledge. So I don't hesitate to ring if I'm puzzling over something.

Now if you need to Google start looking for ways to relax, buy some hypno tapes.............a bit healthier don't you think?

I see, well that helps me very much. I don't even want to get involved in a long term usage of these drugs, I've been obsessively checking my blood pressure and glucose levels since all the whackiness started and after a period of instability, it's been fine.

I agree, it's probably abnormal to be "relatively normal" after a month, but I guess that's what cold turkeying 15-20 times in 8 years does - you kind of just accept anxiety and strange physical symptoms as a fact of life. I certainly didn't know better, and as I never had any adverse effects (of course, up until as described in my original post) I was none the wiser. I'm back to jogging, my hypoglycemia seems to be improving (averaging 5mmol + before and after meals) my liver doesn't hurt anymore, and well, you know, smoking 1/3rd what I was probably helps. I'm even able to have two cups of tea a day! And it's thanks to some really insightful, down to earth posters like yourelf here. Thanks!

So, as for what you said... it's probably safe to go from 1.5mg, to 1, to nothing by the end of the week, despite 5 weeks on them? I'm quite happy to do this psychologically, as even sleep hasn't been a HUGE issue (I can get to sleep after waking up at 3! YES!) but I know I was averaging 2.5-3.5 a day a week ago. Thanks again!

**JackieClaire** · June 23, 2014, 05:05 AM

Please, simple questions about alcohol detox dosage and avoiding addiction

Yep, from what I gathered from the pharmacist........you'll be fine.........go on have a word with yours. Make him/her a friend..........and it doesn't go on your medical records. Although I got to the stage I didn't care if it was written in big red letters all over mine................I just wanted to get well.

Good to see you've stopped obsessing with your blood pressure and glucose...

**Alien** · June 23, 2014, 05:18 AM

Please, simple questions about alcohol detox dosage and avoiding addiction

JackieClaire;1674943 wrote: Yep, from what I gathered from the pharmacist........you'll be fine.........go on have a word with yours. Make him/her a friend..........and it doesn't go on your medical records. Although I got to the stage I didn't care if it was written in big red letters all over mine................I just wanted to get well.

Good to see you've stopped obsessing with your blood pressure and glucose...

Thank you, that makes it much easier to aim to be off them by the end of the week. I guess I have to up my longer-lasting carbs and exercise to cope with the influx of adrenaline from the psychological dependance

You mentioned earlier in the thread that your detox was very quick, over in 8 or 9 days... did you feel trouble from withdrawal from either substance after, or lingering health/anxiety problems?

I think obsession is never a good thing, but it seems quite easy to develop obsession/anxiety when things don't go exactly to plan. Thankfully I haven't had a reading higher than 137/80 for over a week now, and that makes it easier to leave it alone, although my heart rate has been higher than average, I haven't had a reading over 90 whereas over a week ago when I tapered too quickly I was getting over 100 HR and over 140 BP consistently.

Also, my blood glucose has risen in the mornings since I've started having soup at night, so once again, it's much easier to realise I'm lucky that my body is re-adjusting after only a month. Thanks for all your advice !

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Please, simple questions about alcohol detox dosage and avoiding addiction

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