Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

[KateH1]

OK....I am going to vent here.....as this is the long term ABs thread.

Frankly, I am really disgusted with all the talk of "How to Drink" and all the Planning on drinking that is currently going on in "General" including the newbies threads. I fully realize that some come here, many come here hoping to choose the MODS route. I was one of them myself. But, I understood the MWO description of ABS. No one cheered me on for "Wanting" to continue to drink on a daily basis......no one cheered me on for cutting back from blackouts to 2-3 drinks per day. I was given a lot of straight up information that was truthful.......some might call it "tough love".....but it worked!

These days, it seems that most members, even long time members just do not want to take a stand on alcohol abuse! There is far more posting about "How to continue drinking, than how to stop drinking". I see slogans like...."You never fail until you quit trying"....what a crock!! You can die or become seriously ill, while fooling around with "trying". People are being told......"Don't be hard on yourself"........I know of no other way to beat this thing and get healthy, than to get serious.....stop making excuses.....stop being childish and getting real about what addicition is and the consequences with continuing. Alcoholsim is not a joke and quitting is not a game! This is very serious.....it causes so much grief and loss....loss of family, friends, jobs, futures, self respect, children, and can end in serious health problems that can be irreversable and even death.

Is anyone else concerned about the direction that this website has taken over the past few months?

Thanks for letting me vent!
xxxKate

[gyco]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

hi kate,your words are harsh,compassion they call it,years ago they put youin a sanitarium for this illness,the only way to fight it, then AA,it would be nice if we could wave a magic wond,but we cant,ive tried both ways,drinking moderately or just abstaining,people with any kind of addiction are usually very humble,critisism is not one of our better qualities, you are right,this site gives you an option,AA does not,one thing ive learned is if you dont like what is written,or if offended, delete it,i kinda think thats what most of us are trying to do,delete AL from our lifes,sobriety is a gift that unfortunately we have to really work hard for it,your thread is a good one, but remember when someones down,dont kick them,lend a helping hand ,be compassinate hand gyco

[fickle]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

Um Kate,
Sorry I disagree with you.
If you are not from a place that has absolutely no options, you would not understand how impossible the hard line is. Most people with comfortable lives think that anyone can afford to put their 'health' first. They have no idea why a person with problem drinking would not just quit or put themselves into detox.. make it their number one issue.
The fact is that many people are in desperate situations with no way out and no assistance with their dependents. There is NO easy way out. The only way is to find our own way out. These boards offer ongoing support to many of us who would not find it elsewhere.
There are myriad reasons why the problem began for each person and for how they will solve it. It is worth listening to everything. All the information is helpful. Moderation is a real and viable option for many people here. The 'all or nothing' attitude fails many, many, many people including myself.
Every person has different esperiences, reasons, needs, options, variations, validations, health issues, etc... Every person's journey is their own.
Please have appreciation for these boards and their diversity and do not judge others.
Sincerely,:l
Fickle

[tlrgs]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

Gyco;535789 wrote: hi kate,your words are harsh,compassion they call it,years ago they put youin a sanitarium for this illness,the only way to fight it, then AA,it would be nice if we could wave a magic wond,but we cant,ive tried both ways,drinking moderately or just abstaining,people with any kind of addiction are usually very humble,critisism is not one of our better qualities, you are right,this site gives you an option,AA does not,one thing ive learned is if you dont like what is written,or if offended, delete it,i kinda think thats what most of us are trying to do,delete AL from our lifes,sobriety is a gift that unfortunately we have to really work hard for it,your thread is a good one, but remember when someones down,dont kick them,lend a helping hand ,be compassinate hand gyco

i couldnt have said it any better ditto

[A Work in Progress]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

Fickle, I think I see your point, but I tend to agree with Kate on this one. What bothers me (and I think maybe this is what Kate is getting at) is that I am reading an overall "tone" in which it is communicated that it isn't necessary to take this problem seriously, as if our very lives depend on recovery. When I read "keep trying!" over and over again, I always want to ask: keep trying WHAT? It sounds so superficial, so inadequate... I get the sense that it really just means: "keep hoping that one day you won't want to drink, and so then you won't drink any more."

I really believe that successfully getting over the problem that most of us have involves a very, very serious organized effort, making and following a very good plan that addresses emotion, cognition, and behavior. The beauty of MWO is that this CAN be done at home, without going to an expensive treatment center. But if it is done at home it still will require time, and effort, and taking some steps that are very difficult to take... I don't see a lot of people advocating for this kind of approach... regrettably...

[Evie.Lou]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

All I can say about this is what I have experienced personally. When I joined MWO Dec.07 I felt pretty hopeless about ever being able to find a way to stop drinking. I would come here day after day week after week and read about others experiences and the different approaches they they where taking to reach their goals. Some i could identify with, some I couldn't. One person stood out to me, over the months, our beloved BEAR. When I felt discouraged and wanted to just walk away and DIE his words encouraged me.Over and over again he would say, "never give up. You will succeed if you keep on trying". His words keep me coming back and trying again. Finally last May it began to stick. I have been mostly sober since then. Harsh words and finger shaking would have NOT helped me in the least. Without those words of kindness and compassion (that I heard form BEAR and others) I might very well have given up and left this site, and been dead today. Reaching out with caring, compassion and understanding is the only tool that we have to help encourage those that come here seeking help. Isn't that what MWO is all about???

[A Work in Progress]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

Evie.Lou;535869 wrote: Reaching out with caring, compassion and understanding is the only tool that we have to help encourage those that come here seeking help. Isn't that what MWO is all about???

Care, compassion, and understanding are the essential starting points... In addition to them, I think that MWO is also about how-to-do-it, with effective tools, all of which require time and effort...

EvieLou, I am not disagreeing with you. But I think sometimes we stop short of being truly helpful, when all we offer is non-specific encouragement. If we just keep "trying" the same thing (and maybe, all we are trying is "hoping things will get easier") over and over, things aren't likely to get any better...

[Evie.Lou]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

WIP, I agree with the "effort part" but I personally had to hear the voice of "Yes, you can" over and over until I finally reprogrammed myself to believe it.Now I KNOW... YES...I CAN !!! And then, things truly did start getting better for me...what did Edison say about " how mant ways not to make a light bulb?"

[Sweaty Betty]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

I read Kate's post this morning and have been thinking about it all day. I read the MWO book and anything else I could get my hands on. Personally, MWO is working for me, I'm enjoying the support I'm getting, and reading what others have decided to share. I wouldn't have returned had I been berated for any 'slips', but a different person might need a different approach, which is what I think Kate offers. Neither is right or wrong. I don't feel 'qualified' or experienced enough to offer specific advice, just support. I would hate to think that by offering support I'm damaging that persons chance of recovery? I think the boards are a community, not an organization, and I hope that everyone can take from them what they need, and if they need more, find a place to get it. I've talked on the boards about how 'non confrontational' I am, so its taken a lot of courage for me to write this, but felt I had to add my voice to the debate. B. x

[KateH1]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

First of all, I have not now, nor ever "berated anyone for a slip". Secondly, I did was neither harsh nor judgmental in my post here. Once, again, because I have spoken out truthfully with a strong stance against encouraging continued drinking, I am the one that is treated harshly and the accusations are flying! Why are personal assaults towards me and my view point towards a straight foward approach to beating alcohol abuse an invitation to personal assaults? I did not mention anyone here in my post, I did not confront any person. I confronted an attitude of enabling.....period!

And NO Fickle, I neither enjoy a comfortable life, nor an easy life. Quite the opposite! I am very humble about my sobriety.....yet, I am completly comitted to taking whatever steps are neccessary to continue along this path, while fully realizing that it is completely up to me, my choices, my decisions as to whether or not I am able to stay alcohol free. This can never be taken for granted!

Betty, like you MWO did work for me.....many times I have written about how grateful I am for that! But, it worked for me, because I worked it! Sobriety, just does not happen due to wishing and hoping and thinking about it. Thank you for your clear, non-judgmental response, Betty and WIP.

I find it interesting that I have several PM's in my box, agreeing with everything that I posted, yet those people are afraid to voice their opinions about tackling alcohol due to fear of personal attacks! So sad!

Perhaps the time has come for me to pull back and move on and visit on occasions keeping my thoughts to myself!
Kate

[LookingToGrow]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

Kate, I share your concerns and am not afraid to post it publicly. Please do not pull back. I value your insight :h

[Accountable for Me]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

Kate, I think you were being honest. As we have seen here lately, many are looking for ways to drink and sharing their strategies on the boards. I believe this can give others some sort of hope that drinking in moderation can work for them. The thing is... if it can - great! For many of us; it is the same old story... we talk ourselves into thinking we can control it, but more often than not - we end up right back where we were or worse.

My hopes are for those people who want to moderate and keep trying over and over again only to fall back off the wagon is; for them to find the strength to accept they cannot drink anymore.

We all think differently. Moderation to one person, is not the same as to another.

I appreciate your honestly and no BS posting. We need more long termers (AF) here to share more of themselves and their struggles/thoughts/actions. I think it would help many realize that drinking in excess destroys lives eventually.

[Pan]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

Tough Love? Yes!!! I need your opinions.

[Pan]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

I stumbled onto this thread, or whatever it is. I don't know. I'm learning. What I did discover was a person who was horrified about this site. I am as well. Have been for a number of years, but it's all up to us. The site has changed and has become very different. What hasn't changed is the people willing to talk quite frankly about their problems. No natter what the site administrators say about anything, the fact is the people we talk to are genuine and just want support.

[A Work in Progress]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

Hey, Panicked.... you OK? What can we do to help you?