Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

[Ripple]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

Kate, not all advice is appropiate ..

When i first came to MWO it was serious. I mean dead nuts focused on the book, the supplements and conversations were directly about drinking only. None of this my cat has a hang nail and I am not going to drink today, but oops i did. !! I can see your point Kate clearly.. I have a problem telling someone, oh hon, i love you, you can do this. baby poo you made a mistake. No, that is not real. All that does is keep a person in denial. They don't change and have no clue really how to stop, or for that fact never did.

Unfortunately this is an open community that thrives on kindness, supportive words and it is really to the individual to make a choice whether to change or not. For some it takes time. Coming here keeps me in check with my drinking. I get to read what other people are going through, i am sad if they can't stop. Thats not my problem, i just don't want to get a PM if they are drinking. That started me up!!! AND, i have done to others.. Never again.. That really pisses me off!!

Right now i have a verbally abusive man on my hands, if i don't come here to read something nice, i am going to go out of my mind. I can sniff out the true sober people from the ones who may never amount to shit ... but you know what, they are trying like me. They may surprise us someday, i may surprise everyone and clean up my act.

Don't take everything seriously here. Some posts irk me too. Its people like us in this thread that make a difference to this community.. Getting pissed does not help anyone. Let it slide, don't beat yourself up trying to get people to figure it out. I love it when you scold me, it means LOVE. I want more from MWO too. What can we do to make change?

Kate .. you are the BEST no matter what..
I love you dearly.. Ripple..:l

[gyco]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

hi Kate i hope your Tuesday is better then your Monday,alcoholism is like that,take the good with the bad,as you can see your very much appreciated,over the last year,ive learned the 24 hour clock,no more no less,anything beyond that i get lost in the mase,all the intellect in the world has never figured this demon out,i was gonna mention it yesterday,i didnt think the timing was rite,for me this site has been very positive,i can turn it off whenever i want,but i do believe were family struggling with many the of the same issues,[AL or perhaps Drugs] a lot of people come here cause they find AA or other methods harsh,ive recently gone back to AA,it was my original foundation,then i found here,then i found something that really amazed me AA online,like here you can turn it off when you want,but like the AA way ,theres no such a thing as modding,you mt want to look into it,all help me, have a wonderful day gyco

[fickle]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

KateH1;535941 wrote: Why are personal assaults towards me and my view point towards a straight foward approach to beating alcohol abuse an invitation to personal assaults? I did not mention anyone here in my post, I did not confront any person. I confronted an attitude of enabling.....period!

Kate, I truly think you misinterpreted my post. I intended no personal insult towards you or anyone else. I think you missed that. I merely disagree with your point of view. It is extremely clear to me that your presence on these boards is appreciated by many, many people, including myself. There has never been a harsh word between us before! This was my first time ever to venture into the Long Term Abstainers area and this was the first post I found. I expressed my opinion just as you did. I can't see why you are so offended!

These boards have grown over time and now accommodate many different approaches and goals. It is hard to decide for anyone where to fit in. Every single person here has a different relationship with alcohol. To me it is a substance and these are health issues. I can not buy into the 'beast' idea personally, however I see that it works well for many others.

Visit areas like Research or Wholistic Healing and witness the debates. The issues we all are facing are extremely complex. There is no "One Size Fits All" solution. That IS the whole point of the MWO book for me: intelligent research, debate and experimenting with what works and what doesn't personally for me.

There is a fine line between encouraging people who fail to to keep trying, enabling them to free themselves through 'tough love', enabling them to forgive themselves for failing and then try again and/or turning people away with judgement & condemnation. It is a very fine line to tread and I think Bear was one of the few noble souls who managed.

For the rest of us, this is a community and everyone is of value. I am glad to have you here and hope you will rethink the idea that you are under attack. I honestly do not get that impression in this thread.

Best Wishes,
Fickle

[Ripple]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

General ...

Fickle my dear, did you cast your vote in my poll about MWO? Please do. Thank you in advance.

I love you too .... Ripples.. :l

[KateH1]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

Hi All,

First of all, I did not write this thread because I was having a bad day, nor because I was considering drinking. Also, I do not feel badly about myself when I get called names. One of the gifts of sobriety is not taking everything that others do and say personally. The reason that I was prompted to write this thread was exactly what I said. Far too much enabling going on and being called "Kindness"..too many empty words....."Just keep doing what you are doing".....when somone is drinking! "Everything will be OK".....when somone is drinking. As others have mentioned on this thread already, these things are not helpful......they are enabling and enabling an alcoholic to continue the destructive path of drinking is not an act of kindness.

I have the utmost compassion and understanding for those that are honestly trying to beat the Beast! I have incredible empathy for those that truly are working at this and have a bad spell......this shows in my posts. And...yep.....I get annoyed with those who are simply playing with the idea that slipping is no big deal....slipping constantly is progress etc.....then comes the woe was me......poor me...etc. for months on end! It is exhausting reading that crap! Yes, if somone wants to drink....it is their right, it is up to them..it is their life. But, I am not here to coddle such thoughts.

Caysea, Beck, Boozehag, AK, T2C, it is posts like yours that lift my spirits! That allow me to share in the joy of living as a non-drinker.....Your dedication to making life work on life's terms and doing so, sober is so strengthening. Yes, I too come here for strength! By sharing my strength and conviction, I also strengthen my own! Perhaps we need to start a new 30 Days and Beyond, I am a Non-drinker thread! There definitely needs to be a place when we can comfortably post and build each other up......those of us that choose to live as non-drinkers! I miss our old thread. The unfortunate thing is that most that were on that thread have left.......no longer wishing to put up with all the nonsense! And yes, even on that thread.....there were slips and near slips......but......on that thread....others rallied with sound advice, true encouragement and words of wisdom! It was done with compassion, but also no excuses!

No Ripple....I did not leave you out.......Please, please re-think that damn tournament!

Fickle...I am glad you are back, I hope you find your way out!

Gyco,and everyone else that I might have unintentionally missed, I know that you mean well.......ty

[Heavenly]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

I have read through the thread a couple of times and waited to post.

I am a longer term abstainer (I don't consider myself out of the woods by any means) at over 22.5months sober. I too have noticed that some members continue to ask questions such as how do I cut down my drinking but still drink to get tipsy or comments like well done for only having 10 alcoholic drinks a night for the last week instead of 20 ... While I agree the person has made improvements the tone of the answer can work both ways. If I had that brief sentence in my reply I would consider that maybe its ok to stick on 10 drinks a night then.

I have made comments (coming from a nursing background) that are members here because of the bad health effects of excess alcohol intake, including physical and psycological etc or from their own feelings of wanting 'well-being'.

If you need to cut down (ie. moderate) due to health reasons then YOU need to consider medical safe limits and advice on recommended alcohol intake, I have commented on this several times, but it appears to get brushed under the carpet.

Let me ask then, by what measure or yardstick are you using to moderate ? If you have your own goal and it is outside medical limits then I don't really have much support to offer, because my goals before I reached this site and abstention was to drink until 'pleasantly drunk' and not 'nastily, falling down, blackout drunk'.

Who wants to support me in the goal of being pleasantly drunk every night? No-one I hope !
Yet this is what some members are asking others to do!

Yes we are ALL individuals and all different, with different goals ... but if you cannot have a reasonable goal, or do not want to set out a managed plan (and this is what MWO is about) why are you here?
If you are here for a chat, jokes, meet people then fine ... just do not join in with the debates over excess alcohol intake/abuse of alcohol. (of course relatives and friends of alcohol abusers are always welcome ... and I do not include them in this post).

I have pm'd and emailed friends about how I stick to certain threads now and generally don't roam too much into other sections anymore because of some of these issues.

I am here and will always leave my contact available for people who want support or help, just because I do not make inane comments on the 'general' or 'starting out' sections doesn't mean I don't want to support people. Just because I joke on another thread doesn't mean I don't give and receive support from other members.
I am with Kate on this issue and not afraid any more to put my name out there (or a recent photo of my face if you look at my profile !!).

I think we need more threads like this to challenge our behaviours, especially enabling and condoning behaviour.

Thanks

[KateH1]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

Well, put, Heavenly! I could not agree with you more! I feel much the same as you in regards to my sobriety......I do not consider myself a "Long Termer", not do I believe that I am out of the woods. I have been sober for 1 year and one month....I wonder what I will think at 10 years!?

People here with some months and/or years of sobriety also come here for support. No, we are no whining about the stresses of life and how bad things are....etc. etc....but, being able to reach out, and offer some Real Solutions and Honest Support, helps maintain our comittment to sobriety, whilst we possibly actually help another who is comitted to sobriety!

As Always, Thank you for your thoughts and input, Heavenly

[july232007]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

Kate,

I agree with your candor.

I do consider myself a success and I have found MWO because I work hard at it each day. I don't struggle with the decision to remain AF but I do word as hard as I can at it. I like simple metaphores: it is like a long distance runner. You get up each day, lace on your shoes and get out the door. It is not easy but it is not a struggle, it is what you do: run and live your life.

July

[skootiemom]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

Hello my fellow MWO'ers~

I believe, by looking at the "join dates" that I am an old-timer, despite my lack of "senior status" ( don't get me started on that again, remember Tawny?)

Kate H- well, you asked for an opinion and you got it. Some of which support your position, some of which do not. That is the value of a opinion, and should you solicit one, be prepared for the fall out. I have carefully read all the posts and nobody was at anytime attacking you... just challenging your opinion as you invited them to do. I value your opinions- actually everyones on here within this loving community.

I personally agree that this is a community that offers many different ways of attacking this addiction. It is not an organization, like AA with strong rules. This is why I stick around, continue to make progress in my journey to slay the beast. When I trip or fall I come back here to get help and compassion from those who really KNOW how hard this is. Molly coddle- yes, please do, as if you beat me up, I would likely not return. And like Bear said- we must never give up the fight....even at 10 years sobriety, you will still be fighting.... maybe not from the front line trenches, rather from a far off advantage point, but you will still be fighting on til the day you die.

In my fight way back in the day ( 2006), I visited newbie boards- and quite frankly, they are still the same today. Supportive of a few drinks here and there, relishing in the "pink glow" of 7-14 days under their belt and a few new modders giving advice that you can have a few and control this bitch. I was one of them, as I am sure you and many of us were.

Through the journey, my needs have evolved. I have finally accepted that moderation is a dream and stay now to the Abs threads for what I need now. My needs now are very different than back then. Roberta and others always supported the welcome a newbie everyday. Yes, the message to those is different than from what I need at this point, but the goal is them same. Enabling, no. Like with my kids- lots of praise for first eating all their peas... lots of gold stickers of sorts!. Now that they are older, it's like EAT YOUR PEAS, damn it!

Anyways, I am rambling. I should have broken this post into one word sentences/ posts and then maybe I'd achieve the elusive "Senior Member " status....

Skoots

[Heavenly]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

hi Skootiemom,

I know what you mean about senior membership. I have asked about that before, I originally registered back in May 2007 and re-joined in December 2007. I just laugh at those who joined ''whenever'' and ''know everything'' and have "millions of posts" ... all about what ??

But I am digressing from this thread, thanks for your opinion. I for one and think everyone here does appreciate all opinions. Thanks again.

[polaryzed]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

WOW - Opening my eyes hurts

:new: WOW, where to start and yet be brief. I almost feel guilty being in here cuz I'm one of the newer members who is using the Mod method hopefully short-term to Quit!

Here is My Condensed Story,
Personally, I have rarely had a headache (except with the flu+) nor have I blacked out from drinking. So for me, I really didn't think I had a problem until my husband mentioned recently that there could be a potential problem.

In researching AA and other venues, I found MWO Forum and began reading. And in reading the intreguing stories of all these wonderful people who ultimately have the same goal which is to be AF, I came to the conclusion that I want My Life Back too.

I felt elated that there were different ways to Quit. Then a few days ago, I found a link in MWO for 'Tracking'. Bingo, this could help me realize how much I drink. Unfortunately, the next day I couldn't find the Tracking link.

Then a lighbulb moment 'Create your own Tracking device'. You see some of us don't really realize or perhaps we don't want to admit how much we drink, everyone has their own unique thought patterns.

Prior to joining the MWO Forums, I had very little ambition to change or be changed. My motivation to actually follow thru with anything was limited at best.

However, since becoming a member of MWO community I have accomplished the following: I have now begun to paint again (one of my favorite passions), I excersice daily (walking my dog). I have kept a daily record of what I drink and since Jan 28, 2009 I have come from 8 glasses of wine down to 2. I find each day I am becoming stronger, more motivated and more confident.

If I had not found the compassionate and understanding people of this web forum who knows where I'd be.

In closing, I am an Army Brat, reared for years in an Army camp, I for one know what Control =. Both positively and negatively speaking.
COMPASSION - WHY NOT - ESPECIALLY IF IT EVOKES CHANGE FOR THE BETTER!

:thanks: for Helping Me Help Myself ! ! !

[Heavenly]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

Laughing all the way to heaven-ly

one2many;537982 wrote: Heavenly,

With all due respect, I do not think it is a question of "when" somebody joined or "how many" posts they have, but instead what these posts contain, how they have helped others and if they have been there for support to Newbies and those reaching out and having a bit of fun along the way.

I find it a bit weird that you would "laugh" at this???

Better than crying love ... why are you pointedly asking ME this or directing this at me when Skootiemom was the person making the point ??

I mean your point is ? Have I attacked you or mentioned your name in ANY post or thread I have written ... but you must be feeling sensitive girl ... are you all right ?

And I can assure you it's not me that's weird ... I am perfectly normal all over ... Thanks for your 'opinion', although Grandmother and eggs comes to mind ....

Wit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Irony - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sarcasm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Heavenly]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

ha ha ha ha ha ... :H

[polaryzed]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

Am I in the Wrong Place?

No seriously, am I in the wrong place visiting MWO? Should I look for another Forum for help?

Why does MWO have a Monthly Moderation Field? or a Games Field? a Jokes Field? etc.
(which by the way I only just noticed a few minutes ago).

Is there a Criteria for how much a person Was or Is Now drinking that determines whether MWO is the correct place to seek help?

When I 'read' about the quantities that people can consume, I wonder how they could even stand up let alone function. No Blame No Shame is my moto.

Perhaps I clicked on the wrong 'headers' when I 1st visited MWO and got the wrong feedback . . . The 1st Header I clicked on was 'Just Starting Out'. Ooop?

All I know is I am looking for guideance. I felt like I was at the beginning stages of needing assistance because it seemed to me like it may be getting out of control when my husband mentioned it to me recently.

I cannot say I have experienced most of the stuff that I read on MWO so far. Please Advise.

[A Work in Progress]

Becoming Alarmed at Advice Being Given on MWO

Polaryzed, there are ALL KINDS of people here, but everyone is here because alcohol has somehow or another become a problem... usually we feel we have lost control over our drinking. Either sometimes, or all the time. And that is scary, and it gets worse over time.

The question for you is this: Having done some reading about this program, and knowing what you know about your own drinking problem... what will be your OWN way out? What will be your plan for recovery?

There is at least one very good ongoing thread for those who are working getting/staying AF; there's at least one very good ongoing thread for those who are working on controlled, moderate consumption. There is good material in the MWO book and the Tool Box thread for developing a solid plan for recovery. So: the ball's in your court... what are you going to do? Whatever your plan and goals might be, you can get good solid support and encouragement here, even if some of us had progressed to a more serious alcohol problem than yours might be, right now!