Online Forums and long term sobriety

[Heavenly]

I have experienced and read others experiences about online forums and how what we / others write can affect our emotions, thoughts and in certain ways our physical health if we take what we read and either let it 'get to us' or follow advice that was posted. I would like others opinions, both for and against, experiences and how to deal with using online forums, including how we may misread peoples writings due to the human need of reading body language and facial expression, and positive and negative effects these have on our long term sobriety. I have misunderstood posts before and let it have a negative effect on my psyche. Thanks, Heavenly

[startingover]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

For me, finding MWO has been a total lifesaver. The advice and support I have received has always been positve and helpful. I do see some negative posts, but I try to ignore these because I know they will be detrimental to my sobriety. So far I have never been attacked for my views so I am not sure how I would react to that, I can imagine that it would hurt me very badly. For me, my sobriety comes first, if I felt it was threatened by how I was feeling from coming here I would probably leave.

[A Work in Progress]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

It's never simple, is it? I do relate to what both of you said, Heavenly and Starts. I seem to do a daily "cost-benefit analysis" about MWO... usually with the "benefit" side outweighing the "cost" side. One reason that's true is that I really took on board the AA doctrine about helping other alcoholics... so long as I feel that I may be helpful to others here, I will be placing a large check-mark in the "benefit" column, along with the check-mark that represents the benefits I have and do receive, in this community.

I am very doubtful about whether I will be here for the long, LONG haul, however. I simply cannot imagine myself still logging on here daily, or frequently, 2 or 3 years from now. The "helping others" will have been taken over by others who are better at it than I am, and I am sure that I will be doing something else, somewhere else, to get and give help about alcohol problems (mine and those of others).

Online support groups have their advantages, of course, hand in hand with several significant disadvantages that you point out, Heavenly. Sometimes we misunderstand what people are trying to say (and sometimes others misunderstand or misinterpret us). And sometimes, we understand all too well, when someone is in an out-of-control drunken rampage. We have the privacy of being at home... and we miss out on the warmth of face-to-face interactions.

A very mixed bag. Usually, the good outweighs the negative, for me.

[A Work in Progress]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

Cross-posted. Good points, Oney.

[Heavenly]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

Thanks to Startingover, one2many and WIP ... all true and have covered my own thoughts too.

I started this thread so that it didn't overtake the "30 days and beyond" thread which is more for support with remaining sober for the 'long haul' as you describe it WIP (in our 'real' or daily lives) .

Maybe if the long termers post their vents here with regards forums, posters and other online aggravations, we can support each other here.

Not to necessarily 'name and shame' but just if we have anything to share regards these issues already commented on ... just a thought.

[A Work in Progress]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

I hope others do chime in here... it's an important area for discussion.

Meantime... here is something that has been bugging me for a while. I'd be interested in hearing what others think about this. I have noticed that we use a euphemism here for people who are out of control, usually drinking and sometimes in other ways as well: we say that they are "struggling." And when we say that, it feels a bit like we have instantly taken them "off the hook." We rush in to support (maybe even to coddle?) them, without also asking them to make any sort of amends, or to express any kind of apology or remorse over whatever damage they may have done, while drunk and out of control.

Rushing in with support is great... accountability is important, too. I think the two need to be kept in balance.

Several times lately I have heard someone who was previously AF, saying that s/he had been drinking again, and others said something along the lines of: "oh, I didn't know that you were struggling." Instead of the (possibly) more accurate: "oh, I didn't know you had started drinking again."

As for me, if I start drinking again, it will be because I have QUIT struggling.

I think that use of the term "struggling" is accurately applied to those who are working hard enough on their problems that they remain in control over themselves...

I haven't had a drink in over 6 months but... believe me! ... I am "struggling." There are some difficult things going on in my life, over and above the ever-present concern about my dependence on alcohol. Every day is a battle to keep my heart and mind and behavior aligned, as well as I can, in the direction of health, freedom from alcohol, and self-control.

[startingover]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

Not everyone who starts drinking again or slips reacts badly on the boards? Sometimes dont people need a bit of coddling to help them through? Not everyone likes it I know, but thats one of the problems here, we each have a certain way of offering support, we are not professionals and we tend to offer whatever would help oureselves? perhaps I dont think that is necessarily wrong. Its just different styles of support.
But if someone did go off the rails and was abusive, yes I would expect them to apologise for their actions.

[sunshine_gg]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

I'll have to partially disagree, Wip... when being and staying AF, I believe you are succeeding in your struggles... when slipping you are succumbing (even if temporarily) to your struggles... either way you (we all) are struggling.

I don't think the term 'struggling' should be associated with either, success or failure.

.

[KateH1]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

First of all let me say that I totally "get" what WIP is saying and I agree. People on this forum have many different Ideas as to what it takes to gain sobriety and to live a happy sober life. People are also at different stages in sobriety and the fact is, that these things make for different ways of thinking. I do not consider..."Mostly not drinking" to be the same as long term sobriety. I don't believe that I can possibly remain a non-drinker by allowing myself to "slip on occasion". That is not to say that it cannot or will not happen. What I am saying is that I do my darndest so that it won't happen. I also know that "struggling" is different at different stages of sobriety. One cannot understand the process of long term sobriety, until they are there. I think it is a good idea, to remain open to suggestions from those that are not only successful in not drinking, but even more so, to those that are learning to live a good life as a non-drinker!

[Heavenly]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

I agree and disagree ... my take on this is that if someone 'decides' to drink and it is their decision, no-one other person outside their own body or mind 'makes' them drink (unless by violence of course .. which no-one anticipates or wishes to happen) .. then if their decision to drink makes them (as I have been) nasty, viscious and bad-mouthed (or bad typed !! you get my drift) then why do we have to accept it on a forum ...

Oh they have been drinking ... let them abuse you for a coupla hours ... it's ok !!

Take the recent incident about antabuse - I can't accept thatthread as being ok. The person may be mistaken or seeking advice but if the person won't take some of the advice given should we then say ''it's ok, they are alcoholic and 'struggling', '' ...

I think this is where I have been misunderstood before ... and where Kate was misunderstood, it's not that we don't want to say that someone is doing well, it's just we feel that you can't tell everyone ''it's ok'' ... when clearly it's not ok to be drinking, posting abusively or asking for support on one thread and laughing and joking that they have had a drink on another ....

That's my rant ..... arrrggghhhhhh
Thanks for listening ..... and to everyone for contributing ...

[Heavenly]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

I agree and disagree ... my take on this is that if someone 'decides' to drink and it is their decision, no 'one other' person outside their own body or mind 'makes' them drink (unless by violence of course .. which no -one anticipates or wishes to happen) .. then if their decision to drink makes them (as I have been) nasty, viscious and bad-mouthed (or bad typed !! you get my drift) then why do we have to accept it on a forum ...

''Oh they have been drinking ... let them abuse you for a coupla hours ... it's ok !!''

Take the recent incident about antabuse - I can't accept that thread as being ok. The person may be mistaken or seeking advice but if the person won't take some of the advice given, should we then say ''it's ok, they are alcoholic and 'struggling', '' ...

I think this is where I have been misunderstood before ... and where Kate was misunderstood, it's not that we don't want to say that someone is doing well, it's just we feel that you can't tell everyone ''it's ok'' ... when clearly it's not ok to be drinking heavily, posting abusively or asking for support on one thread and laughing and joking that they have had a drink on another ....

I also acknowledge that I too may drink again, but if I accept that I made a mistake and want help, support etc then I will come and ask, expect it (aw shucks girl ) and make sure I try my damndest to abstain again - not to say those that moderate shouldn't. I admire them for their tenacity and and genetics ..... LOL ....

That's my rant ..... arrrggghhhhhh
Thanks for listening ..... and to everyone for contributing ...

[sunshine_gg]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

Yep, I understand what you mean Heavenly... I also understood what Kate was saying in another thread. I'm not necessarily disagreeing, either. Frankly, when someone is 'slipping' every 2 days - no, that's not 'OK' and there probably isn't much resolve or even sincerity there. At the same time, especially in the very early days I don't think a little coddling is going to hurt. And, let's face it, we all go at a different pace. In 'my' case... even though I thought and said I wanted to quit.. it actually took a couple of months to really get there mentally. And, I'm damn glad that nobody chewed me out or discouraged me during that time.

As far as drunk posting or just plain posting to stir the pot... I think it may have been Wip, actually who said that those posts get way too much attention (which is what they're seeking to begin with) and I totally agree. And again.... any time you throw a bunch of different personalities together (never mind adding substances) - cyber space or 'real' life... there are bound to be differences of opinion, clashes in personality, and the occasional asshole - pardon my french

[hippie37]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

I've not read any of the above posts so as not to be swayed with comments already made but for me personally (and this is only me) I've only let a few posts ever get to me that were intentionally below the belt and aimed directly at causing me grief. The biggest help I've found is not to get involved in others 'spats'. It always makes me laugh when people persist on posting in a thread that clearly has been directed albeit maybe misdirected to cause someone harm. It seems everyone (sorry I know I'm generalising!) wants to have an opinion and wants to be heard. We alcoholics/addicts are already a sensitive bunch I think so getting involved in these type of threads can only make matters worse and add fuel to the fire. just my opinion! I'm extremely open minded anyway which helps a lot! I know I've used 'offensive' language as other members may deem it but if the sentence warrants it to explain better how I'm feeling, emotionally for example, then I'll use it without worry. My only regret using forums is when I've been say drinking and I may of come across ignorant of other's feelings or obnoxious. I think there is certain etiquette that is abided by most but condemning someone for speaking their mind goes against my principals. Anyone who wants help should be able to freely speak their mind on a forum without fear of recrimination by other members who have a different outlook on life. If you don't agree with something then FINE! It's only someone's opinion after all and we're all entitled to one.

I don't know if anyone else gets this but (as in real life!) I can sometimes feel the tension brewing a mile off or I'll read one post that I think WOW I bet so and so is gonna jump in on that one and start world war III and I'm usually right!!lol I've always dealt with things in a non-violent manner in my life and that's how I try and conduct myself on forums and not be absuve or direct my anger back at the person who may of offended me unintentionally maybe. A quite well thought out pm usually works for me. I'll always ask if the other person is ok or having a bad day or something like that. I try be understanding rather than go straight on the defensive and be agressive back. I think they call it being humble!!!lol

Love and Happiness
Hippie
xx

[A Work in Progress]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

Sunny, I don't think anyone really disagrees with anything you are saying here.

What amazes me is that any time that someone brings up the idea of accountability, it is taken to mean that people should be taken out and horse-whipped for screwing up. That misunderstanding is (I think) exactly what happened in the thread that KateH recently started. In my own post, I was very careful to say that I was pleading for some kind of balance in which people who are having a hard time and really WANT help, are encouraged... and that they are also being asked to take some responsibility for any damage they have done... Gentle encouragement is wonderful... so long as it is balanced by an insistence on taking responsibility for one's own behavior.

Alcohol dependence is a peculiar thing. It has elements that are beyond our control... genetic predispositions, malfunctions in the structure and function of the brain, various environmental factors, etc.; and/but it also has a very strong "voluntary control" aspect. That's why we have to use a balance of compassionate encouragement (and forgiveness), along with an insistence on taking responsibility and changing behavior, to get over this thing. The more we know about our own patterns of alcohol dependence, and the more damage we are doing to others (and ourselves) with our drinking... the more compelling is the need to step up, and take responsibility for our own behavior.

I think that our attitudes shape our choice of words, and our choice of words also shapes our attitudes. In my post, I was trying to get at the significance and implications of our use of the term "struggling" as a subtle way to ignore the damage caused by some people who are out of control... and who clearly are not really struggling at all. They are undoubtedly suffering... and lashing out... but suffering is NOT the same thing as struggling.

[cyclefan]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

Speaking of phrases people use, the phrase I object to is, "I slipped." I always wonder, "what, that drink just happened to slip into your hand?" WIP I agree with what you say about accountability. People can be supportive while still encouraging people to take responsibility for their own behavior. In my eyes, that is more productive for the person in the long run than coddling.

But with MWO when people come here there are no rules, nobody waiting at the door with a 24 hour button and a big book. People stumble, they are grateful for what has been handed to them and sometimes, in gratitude, they offer advice or comfort that is not always in the best interests of the person who is receiving it. Discussions like this are so helpful, thanks for starting it Heavenly. I want to be able to support people who come here in the best way for the people who come, in gratitude for what MWO has given to me.