Online Forums and long term sobriety

[cyclefan]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

KateH1;544900 wrote: Cycle....by brutal honesty, I did not mean to imply nasty or mean .....

Semantics again. I appreciate your brutal honesty here Kate.

[Heavenly]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

cyclefan;544884 wrote: People can't stay out of general because it is too crazy, then complain about the advice that is being given.

Kudos to WIP, really, she is the one who by example taught me the language to use with new people, how to welcome them, how to encourage them to get the book, get a plan, etc. Startingover is another who bravely gets out there everyday. There are a few others, sorry I don't mean to neglect by not mentioning names it is not my intention to leave out people who do good works at MWO on a daily basis.

Thanks again, great thread I'm learning a lot here.

Oh dear I can and do stay out of 'general discussion' unless I feel I can help, truly help, because as I already said I would lose my temper and want to give some people a 'cyber' shake and say ...''WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE'' ... for goodness sake how many times ....

Maybe I was 'lucky' I did my self examination and criticising and failing myself before I really joined here ... so I was lucky NOT to be drinking just as I joined up properly, I had read and wanted to join the 30 days thread, so Yes, I didn't post drunk... was I lucky not to fail and drink ... this is my first and hopefully last long term attempt at sobriety .. I had attempted it on my own soooo many times and failed ... but before I found this place ...

Maybe it is ourselves that project our own fears onto those that 'slip' and 'fail' and while we feel for them we see ourselves and that fear emerges as ..... what ?

You know I am just being 'devil's advocate' here .... I don't know the answers myself ...

Thanks sunshine GG , I am enjoying this thread enormously too .....

[Heavenly]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

KateH1;544775 wrote: lLOL...Sunshine!! Actually, I think you just hit the nail on the head. I believe there is a huge opportunity between "coddling" and "chastising"......I think after a night that one has chosen to drink (and yes, I do believe that it is a choice!) a supportive comment might be something like, sorry to hear that you chose to drink.....but, all is not lost, get back on track today and set you goal to not drink again and Mean It! Stick to your plan!

The thing is, that we are in this boat in the first place because we have been full of excuses, lies, and self pity.....while blaiming everything and everyone else for we ourselves pooring alcohol down our own throats. Surely we do not need others to provide us with the same excuses and comfort while we continue along the path of drinking. In my book coddling is enabling and firmness, laced with empathy is the truly compassionate course of action!

First an formost, to truly beat this thing....is take brutal honesty, not coddling!

Oh Kate, Kate ... I wish we had had this kind of thread for discussion months ago ... you and WIP are helping me so much to learn what I should be saying and how to say it ....

Thanks all for the contributions from everyone, I am reading and re-reading this thread every day, and every time I do I am learning some new way of managing my own behaviour when responding to others online .... because yes, I do sometimes blame myself as well for taking things out of context ...

WOW ... thanks all .... :l

[Sunbeam]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

I post fairly often, but I rarely maybe never confront nor disagree with anyone on these boards. People mostly want to be "right" and disagreeing does not go anywhere using this means. Just my thoughts on this topic. Anyone can respond (or not) and I won't disagree! That is my personal comfort zone.

[sunshine_gg]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

Thanks Wip.... you're 100% right... our response to someone reporting on having drank the night before should be 'I'm sorry you chose to drink..' Never occurred to me - but that's exactly what we mean to say, isn't it?

Brutal honesty is very easy - with ourselves, I find. With others, I suppose, we always try to consider other circumstances in their lives, etc..? Because...? Not sure but listening to the many many horror stories of others - I think there's possibly some sense of guilt... for being an alcoholic WITHOUT having a hugely traumatic childhood, etc...???

I'm with Heavenly here... just fishing... I really haven't got a clue.... LOL

[A Work in Progress]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

Heavenly;545104 wrote:
Maybe I was 'lucky' I did my self examination and criticising and failing myself before I really joined here ... so I was lucky NOT to be drinking just as I joined up properly, I had read and wanted to join the 30 days thread, so Yes, I didn't post drunk... was I lucky not to fail and drink ... this is my first and hopefully last long term attempt at sobriety .. I had attempted it on my own soooo many times and failed ... but before I found this place ...

Me too, H., except this is my second time around (first time, 3 years in AA) for a serious, long-term (forever) AF life. I was absolutely ready to be done with alcohol when I got here, AND it's also true that, before I got here, I was an utter mess, quitting for a few days at a time, maybe a week or two; keeping my own little "drink tracker" lists of how much, and when, and finding that it just wasn't helping me... dreaming up methods to ration myself the "OK" amount of alcohol...

But I was the same way in AA, as I have been at MWO... from the moment I walked in the door of my first meeting, I was done with alcohol, scared to death, and I did everything they told me to do, so I could stay sober: I did 90 meetings in 90 days; I talked about what was going on with me, at least a little bit, in every single meeting; I took the slogans and advice seriously; I read the Big Book, cover to cover, right away; I got a good, solid sponsor, and worked with him; I lived and breathed my recovery. Until I didn't, any more, and then I went away, back into the drinking world.

So, no, I have never posted while drunk here, never come here and said that I "slipped," never done any of that (here). Maybe it makes me less patient than I would be if I had done all that right here in front of everyone on MWO! I don't know... I do know that I am doing my best to say what I think that would be most helpful to me, if I were in that horribly un-enviable position (still drinking, or wavering back and forth).

I just have a hard time watching, and responding to, people who are not taking it seriously. It's almost physically painful to watch. I can see people working their way up to relapsing, and it's an awful thing to watch... I know that, for me, any and every relapse is potentially fatal... and that's true for every one of us. I have a huge sense of the urgency of it all. Many people don't see it that way... and don't want to treat the problem as something that truly is life-threatening.

[lorisunshine]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

This is a great threat. May I contribute a thought.
I have trained many a young lady over 25 years and the one common denominator I found with a large percentage of them was their lack of accountability. That entailed not only their behavior at work but also extended into their private lifes which they shared freely during their breaks. Is there perhaps a different set of values at work in a younger generation? Blame was assigned to parents, the environment, the schools and whatever came in handy. Not once did I hear that things went wrong because they were lazy, unprepared and unwilling to suffer just a little. I know that alcoholism indiscriminately affects all age groups and social strata, so perhaps this is a poor comparison but it is just a thought that has beeen bugging me for years. Any ideas?

[Heavenly]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

WIP ... again I am with you on this ... most people know I am from a nursing background and I don't see people understanding that alcohol damages human bodies ...

I didn't WANT to see it for 24 years but once I did I realised it's stop NOW or die ... and I think that is what some of the longer - term abstainers are trying to 'get over' ... and not in an aggressive - ''we are right'' type of way ...

Sunbeam, please come and post your thoughts here, no matter how controversial you WILL NOT BE ATTACKED here ... this is for us to speak out and be free to be heard in an adult manner. People will disagree but NOT personally attack you ....

My 'cyber boot' is right here if they do .... ok ?

[DeeBee]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

lorisunshine;545237 wrote: Is there perhaps a different set of values at work in a younger generation? Blame was assigned to parents, the environment, the schools and whatever came in handy. Not once did I hear that things went wrong because they were lazy, unprepared and unwilling to suffer just a little. I know that alcoholism indiscriminately affects all age groups and social strata, so perhaps this is a poor comparison but it is just a thought that has beeen bugging me for years. Any ideas?

Lori, for me you hit the nail on the head ..... being a young one myself.
I never held myself accountable, it was always because of "work" or "being a young Mom" or "stress due to finances" any excuse I could think of really.
A good example is my BF called me this weekend whilst she was hammered and told me that she "deserved to get drunk because she'd had a tough week" that sort of behaviour and thinking is comon amongst my age group.

Thanks for a great thread -- I'm learning a lot!!

[fickle]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

I think the term 'Brutal' was fairly accurate.
Will not comment further.
Good thread tho

[A Work in Progress]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

lorisunshine;545237 wrote:
I have trained many a young lady over 25 years and the one common denominator I found with a large percentage of them was their lack of accountability. That entailed not only their behavior at work but also extended into their private lifes which they shared freely during their breaks. Is there perhaps a different set of values at work in a younger generation? Blame was assigned to parents, the environment, the schools and whatever came in handy. Not once did I hear that things went wrong because they were lazy, unprepared and unwilling to suffer just a little.

Lori, I have taught and trained young (and older) people for years, too, and I see the same things. Some outgrow it... some don't. And another factor that I think is related to an unwillingness to hold oneself responsible for one's behavior is a sort of voluntary blinders as to the impact of one's behavior, on oneself and on others. In other words... "Not only is it not my fault... but it's no big deal, either... that I am getting drunk," etc.

[Heavenly]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

I just went and read this thread again https://www.mywayout.org/community/f9...y-4-30433.html talk about feeling disheartened ... am off for a couple of hours as this has left me feeling so fed up again, especially posts 38 and 39 ... is it just me ? :upset: I am open to being told I am being a 'big silly' as this is what this thread is for ... thanks ...

[KateH1]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

Good Morning.....OK...so how strange is this.....I also just read the "honesty" thread again.....and I fled right here as well! And Yes....I feel Fed Up reading that crap! I completely do not understand why we are supposed to "praise and congratulate" drinking...social drinking without falling down, drinking without blackouts or drinking without getting totally shit faced!?!? In my world...that is still drinking....still problem drinking. I ask what is to be praised here.....how does this help anyone else fighting hard to get sober and learn how to live a sober life?

I am with you on this, Heavenly.....and so very greatful to have a place to go and vent my feelings and thoughts on this matter!

[A Work in Progress]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

Well, based on (only) 6 months or so here... I think that there will always be at least two "camps" on this forum, around this issue. I'm sure there are many reasons for that... the one that seems most pertinent to me, however, is this: Some people consider alcoholic drinking to be a life-threatening problem that requires serious attention, that requires major changes in one's life (a lot like, for example, diabetes); others just do not see it that way. For many, it seems clear that drinking too much is something of an annoyance, definitely a "problem" sometimes, but not something to be taken as deadly serious. The difference between the two attitudes is huge. These contrasting attitudes really clash, at times, here at MWO.

When I see someone continuing to lapse and relapse, I am frightened and horrified for that person, and for her family. I want her to somehow begin to see the seriousness of the situation, and to take substantial, major steps to address the problem. Many folks here don't seem to feel that way at all. For many it seems that there is an endless series of "Oh well, I drank again. I'm going to try to quit again, and hope it all works out." I just don't believe that anybody gets an endless number of chances at this. At some point, a line is crossed... and the person is lost. I think it's truly an urgent matter, always.

I still have the picture in my head, of my father in his coffin. On the night before he went out and shot himself, I asked him if he would come up to near where I live, to go into an alcohol treatment program. He made a joke about it. And then he died. That could happen to ANY one of us, here.

[sunshine_gg]

Online Forums and long term sobriety

Well, ladies - I think the problem may lay here...

1. YOU have been sober for a substantial amount of time; you are no longer 'new' to the idea(l) of sobriety.
2. Contrary to most (I assume) newcomers (including myself) you were already sober and sort of had a plan or goal BEFORE you came here.
3. I bring up point 1 and 2 because for so many, it isn't until they start reading through the threads that something goes off and says "Holy shit, I really DO have a problem". Because until then it was "Nahhh... I'm not THAT bad..."
4. Believe it or not, NOT blacking out IS progress for some. NOT falling down the stairs IS progress for some.
5. You know as much or better than anyone else, that the desire for change has to come from US (the alcoholic, the addict). And 'progress' as above is the baby steps to long term improvement.

Now, medically speaking... no, 8 drinks instead of 18 between 8pm and midnight is NOT a good thing. Cripes. But, to the person who HAS been downing 18 for months or years it IS an improvement. And I do think (more so, I'm FINDING) that the more time one spends here, the more insight one gains and .... well... the harder it is to bullsh*t one self.

I do understand that there is a fine line between support and enabling. And my response would differ based on the person being 'new' to seeking help or having 'slipped' for years.

I truly do admire you - the ones who seem to have such a good grip (and I don't assume for a moment that it is effortless). I'm not anywhere near there yet. But I intend to get there. So do most all of the other people here... but at their own speed and... well.. finding their OWN WAY. I tend to want to cheer progress, even a little progress (litte in MY opinion - as it may be HUGE for the one achieving it) - as long as the journey is in the right direction.

.

P.S. WIP, I'm so very sorry to hear about your dad. I certainly see why you see AL as a life and death situation.

.