Tuesday, November 6

[mikeupnorth]

Good morning everyone!

I mean: Aloha! Greetings from Waikiki :-)

I thought I'd start today's discussion with a question.

What do you think of those occurrences in life that seem like you just happen to be in the right place at the right time? Or maybe it's providence? Or you can call it coincidence, or synchronicity?

You know what I'm talking about. It happens like it happened to me yesterday. Something occurs just when you need it to occur -- even when you don't know you need it. Here is what happened to me yesterday. (Some of this is cut and paste from another post, so bear with me.)

I got up just as the sky was turning from black to grey to pink, and I could see the ocean from my window. I sat on my balcony for a few minutes before I couldn't stand it anymore. I just HAD to go for a walk. So I took a LONG walk down the beach, toward Diamond Head. There's a path, where you are walking in sort of a park, and can see the beach on one side and trees on the other, and don't have to struggle walking in the sand.

Anyway I walked far enough down, got a coffee, sat for a while in the sun, and started back. I saw a group of people gathered in the park with someone in the middle speaking, and I wondered what was going on. I went over to check it out. It was an outdoor beachfront AA meeting!! Talk about coincidence, or providence, or syncronicity. I stayed and listened. It was a good AA meeting -- lots of good positive energy and encouragement about staying sober. Lots of people, maybe 60 I would guess. And what a setting! The beach and the surf just over there, and we were under huge trees with tropical birds. I kept looking at the birds thinking that they were either listening to us, or that they were somehow God's angels watching over us. (Corny, huh?) They did seem to be making eye contact, though.

The point is -- I NEEDED THAT MEETING. Not that I was thinking about drinking (far from it, in fact). But I needed to be reminded that my alcoholism is still with me. It is especially with me here on this island, when I am feeling free, and good, and away from responsibility. It could be so easy to have a Mai Tai or a glass of wine and who would know? I would know, that's who. And most likely it would get very ugly. Anyway, it is amazing to me how things happen this way just when you need them.

What's your experience with this? Does it happen often to you? Do you notice it more often now in sobriety?

[sujul]

Tuesday, November 6

Hey Folks!
I'm just checking in after weeks of not being here...all is well, I'm just in my last year of seminary and I'm totally frantic!

Mike, great story--yep, we DO get reminders when we need them! I've been thinking about grace a lot lately--and that's what that wonderful AA meeting was--pure grace.

Okay, so I won't try to catch up on everything but this is what happened to me yesterday, tell me what you think....

My partner and I went to a new church yesterday--it is this wonderful non-traditional church in Greenwich Village--lots of different kinds of folks, a great new minister...much singing and celebrating... It was their Communion Sunday and the way they do it is they set up long tables (it's a large congregation) with baskets of bread and carafes of grape/apple juicen set out at intervals along the table...at the appropriiate time the minister spoke about how we share bread and wine in remembrance of Jesus at table with his disciples and then we all took our chunks of bread and bit into them and then we all took a great gulp of our juice....and it was REAL WINE!!

I quietly said to Sherri who hadn't drunk hers yet, that this really was wine and she looked totally stricken (I mean it HAS been almost SEVEN months....), I reassured her that it was not a problem, she took my cup, and I ate some more bread, she slid me a cup of actual apple juice and things moved along....

It was truly a wonderful service...and the wine really wasn't a problem except in some sort of symbolic way --- and then I started thinking that the MEANING of the bread and wine is also symbolic and then I started to get all theological about it....

The good news (aside from the GOOD NEWS!) is that sometimes the unexpected happens--and sometimes that unexpected is a challenge (unexpected wine) and sometimes it's a gentle reminder (AA meetings on the beach)--but all of it is grace....
:h
susan

[MonaCat]

Tuesday, November 6

Amazing story Mike.
Oh yes, I can relate. It's like when the student is ready, the teacher appears.
I am so happy you are having a wonderful and spiritual time.
Thanks for sharing.
Hugs,
Mona

[dilayne]

Tuesday, November 6

Hey everyone, and hey Mona!
Yes, I definitely believe in synchronicity..I actually believe the universe is working in harmony all of the time, it's just that we don't see the perfection of it all until we open our eyes and we are ready to see it..it's really cool when you begin to see it all of the time..it's almost like being conscious on a whole new dimensional level. I had a funny little experience this weekend...I'm just as delighted by the little ones as the bigger ones..I went to a workshop this weekend and at the end, other people who had done it in the community came to be with us...one of the women there is one of the two other people in my dream group..we actually canceled our meeting Saturday so that I could do this thing. This is in Atlanta, a pretty big city...it was so funny...I don't understand the meaning behind the synchronicity, but it felt validating, and it told me to 'pay attention'. Thanks for sharing! Oloha!

[Guest]

Tuesday, November 6

Mike,
Nice to see you here... love the beach story.

I'm going to change the subject here because, to say the least, I had an interesting day yesterday... so bear with me... and I'm talking about myself here even if I use the word 'you' which i'm only using as a descriptor...

I think that there is a side to all of us (ok, me) that is almost mental... and I dont use that word lightly. It has the feeling of overpowering.. the world shaking. Its a place in myself that I hide from.. I construct a surface that hides this feeling... and when, it creeps up on me, I used to numb it out with booze. Then I came here and sort of dabbled.. toe in the water.. boy, am I not alone with this one? but I think we can get held up in enjoying that feeling that we are not alone.. when it is only part of the process.. so, for me, I decided to take what I might call the Neil approach and peel back the layers of the onion.

For me, this involved going to the place inside myself where there is unexpressed emotion.. of grief, dispair.. and releasing that emotion. There are a range of ways to 'do' this.. and for me, I tried a few and selected a few (wanting to ensure that I didnt fail.. I"m such a control freak)....

First time I did it, i was truly terrified. But out of the blue, arms came out to hold me and help me.. people totally surprised me in their ability to not be scared by me, when I was terrified. And through that process, I released something and I finally started to grow.

I'm not saying that this is for everyone, but it was good for me once I got through it.

Anyway, I worked out yesterday that I have more work to do on this front. And this time I'm not so scared.. its like I"m embracing that darker side of me and using its strength to help me grow.

And grow, I will.
Brigid

and hey susan, nice to 'see' you here.

[dilayne]

Tuesday, November 6

Brigid..I did the same thing this past year with my analyst..when I first went to him for a variety of life transitional issues, including getting a handle on my drinking...I asked him how long this would take (the control freak? :0) He told me that it depended on how big the water jugs were..he asked me how big I thought they were..I told him I had no idea,..the truth was that I knew there was something deep inside of me, but I didn't quite know what it was or how much there was..I've been a pretty aware person..I journal, I'm very introspective..but there was that deeper layer that I couldn't access...after a few months I realized those water jugs were huge, and that feeling the grief is the only way to release it..of course, I've done it in a variety of ways, but being willing to feel the feelings..to acknowledge that they are there, even if you can't see, touch or feel them is a huge step..the water jugs probably will never be completely empty, but I've dumped quite a few of them this year and do feel much lighter and freerer as a result. Thanks for sharing that!
Dianne

[xtexan]

Tuesday, November 6

Hello friends:

Hey Mike! How's that Waikiki? Do you see the big catamarans run right up on the beach? I spent a couple nights at Waikiki, and then two weeks on the northwest shore of Maui back in 1993. Someday, I have to go back, and get a four-wheel drive Jeep or something, and go deep into the jungles on Molokai, Kuaui, or over there on the big island. Lots of stuff to check out.

Brigid:

Somtimes I think the inner work, is just out to get me or something. It's like I'm in this big mansion. I go into the main room, and there is a dozen doors. I open up eleven, and check out what's inside. I breathe a sign of relief, thinking there is only one more door, and then WHAM!. The twelfth door leads to another chamber that has a dozen more doors into the psyche. Just when I think I have got some traction, then I find I'm in a maze of inner chambers that lead to more. That's when I found that I had better keep a journal, to record my inner journeys.

Just yesterday, while on the light/sound machine, I was doing some memory recall, and another monster popped out. It was a fight I had with another kid when I was maybe 12 or so. I lost, and got my butt whooped, and had to endure months of taunts and ridicule at school. Forgot all about it. Cripes, what a major thorn in my side!! I remember three years later, I couldn't take it anymore, and so I beat the living tar out of the kid that whooped me earlier. He had been torturing me like that little kid on a "A Christmas Story", and the little kid finally goes berserk and beats the crap out of the bully.

So anyway, theres more in there I need to pull out,and try to resolve and deal with. Good luck with your inner work. It's like fighting a bear with a popsicle stick sometimes.

Be well.

Neil

[dilayne]

Tuesday, November 6

Hey Neil, have you ever read any of Robert Johnson's work? Particularly his dream book and Owning Your Shadow? You might also like John (Jack) Sanford who has written a lot on active dreams and active imagination. Your descriptions are like archetypal dreams. I started dreaming so much after I started psychoanalysis, I finally had to find a group led by a Jungian analyst...I've learned a great deal about myself and what is going on in the depths...Jung would call it the process of Individuation..becoming whole..or the Joseph Campbell calls it The Hero's Journey. It's definitely a TRIP! I feel like I've been living in the 'under world' for a year and struggled a bit to pull my head up and back to 'real time'..'earth time'...I'm still dreaming and journaling but feel like I'm integrating and assimilating what I've learned now and hopefully re-entering life with at least a drop or two from the grail.
Namaste! :0)

[dilayne]

Tuesday, November 6

correction...John Sanford has written about 'dreams' and active imagination..where you enter a dream consciously to find out what it is trying to teach you...

[spacie]

Tuesday, November 6

Hi everyone,

I'm with Mona Cat "when the student is ready."

Mike what a neat experience you must have felt so good I can only imagine; that experience is a keeper. I have felt kismet throughout my life but only when clear minded. If we aren't open and alert great experiences will go right by us. Stay open to new and enjoyable experiences my friend - smell the ocean, flora, and fauna for me. You have experienced enough of the other stuff don't be fooled into thinking it's something that it's not.

Susan did you almost spit out the wine - what a shocker you did a spendid job on handling it by keeping it in the spirit in which it was meant.

Brigid and Diane you're both working very hard on making yourselves better and stronger and you're lucky to have experienced letting go and acceptance and I thank you for sharing your experiences. Do you think you were able to peel the onion back a bit because of the time you've allowed yourself to heal from all the drinking? I hope that made sense.
Good day do all,
spacie

[xtexan]

Tuesday, November 6

dilayne:

Thats a new one on me. I will check that author out, and see what he had to say.

One of my favorite techniques (I invented this one myself!), to deal with the unpleasant memories is sort of a modification on the NLP technique.

In my method, I imagine myself in a glass sphere racing away from earth at the speed of light. So if I'm out at 35 light years, I am seeing the light from earth, and what happened 35 years ago. In my glass sphere spaceship, I have a super power telescope, and can see what is happening to myself from above. I can adjust the speed of the spaceship, to replay backwards or forward the event. In slow motion, or fast forward, or whatever.

This gives me a sense of being in the universe, and having power over the events I see. It puts me far away, but I can see exactly what is happening. I realize that it's only an image, and the light that I see through the telescope REALLY did happen to me, but now I can observe being completely detached.

Because the light has traveled so far, it is now only in black and white. This is another NLP technique slightly modified by me. I record the event onto my spaceships computer, and then compress it down. This puts the event into a state of static record, remembered and dealt with, but no longer a psychological torture for me.

So any new information on dealing with past traumas or events is great. I just took a common method or tool of psychoanalysis, and put it into a form that has real meaning for me. It seems to work!!

Neil

[mikeupnorth]

Tuesday, November 6

Oh my. I just realized that yesterday was not Tuesday. But it was the 6th. Oh well. I guess this is what happens when you are away from home and off your regular schedule....

[spacie]

Tuesday, November 6

Woa freaked me out for a few seconds I didn't notice yesterday was posted as Tuesday, and jumped in today thinking it was today's...talk about dejavu which is a totally different subject. Just finished voting and had no problems with the voting machines here.

Later,
spacie

[dilayne]

Tuesday, November 6

Neil, you may like Eckart Tolle better than Robert Johnson or John Sanford...listening to him on audio is mesmorizing because he really speaks from a deep present moment place..I actually watched him speak on DVD last night and experienced a whole new dimension of him..I was suprised to find him on Netflix (online DVD rental) he does a talk on The Flowering of Human Consciousness..he is quite the extroidinary modern spiritual teacher and reaches an even deeper place than depth psychology which is where Johnson and Sanford speak from.

[dilayne]

Tuesday, November 6

Eckhart Tolle