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Tuesday, November 14

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    Tuesday, November 14

    Good morning, folks.

    Here's a topic I've been giving some thought to, and I wanted to throw it out there for your opinion. Before I do, I will preface my question with a little of my history for anyone who doesn't know it. I do that in hopes that no one who reads this will think that I am trying to be judgmental or harsh in any way. Believe me, I have been in the trenches, and I know how hard it is.

    I tried quitting drinking on my own starting in 1998, with no program of any kind. I found that I could sometimes make it to 30 days with a HUGE struggle, but not much farther than that. I would always give in and go back to the bottle. Eventually I went to AA in 2000. My first go at AA was fairly successful. I had 9 months' sobriety, but eventually I got complacent and "rested on my laurels" -- and went back to the bottle. From 2000 to 2005 I made several attempts in AA and one in a traditional outpatient treatment center, and never made it past 90 days. I was always daydreaming about a drink, fighting cravings, etc. Finally in the fall of 2005 I started MWO for the first time. I had a good start but eventually failed at this too -- back to the bottle for yet another round of drinking, until I came back this last time, hopefully THE last time. I do feel that things have changed inside me this time around. I feel that I've made a complete shift in my thinking, which is something that I've never done before. I don't find myself daydreaming about a drink, or allowing myself to think about it.

    In all those times in the past when I failed, I can honestly say that I knew what I was doing when I took a drink. No one forced me. I was not possessed by some sort of evil spirit that made me buy a bottle against my will. I chose to buy a bottle and drink it. And to a certain extent, those purchases and the subsequent drinking were premeditated acts. I had to go through some sort of thought process -- often an internal argument with myself that lasted for hours -- before making the final decision to go and do it. Sure, sometimes it didn't take hours. It might have only taken 2 minutes. But I still knew what I was doing. I had an urge, I went through some thought process, and I acted on the urge.

    So here is the question. Is it fair to call that kind of act a "slip?" Calling it a slip seems to make it sound like I just happened to do it, that it wasn't really a big deal, that it was some benign action and that everything's OK, and it implies that it's over and done with. The reality, it seems to me, is much more complex than that. If I take a drink now, it's much more than a "slip." If I take a drink, I didn't just stumble upon some alcoholic beverage and have it fall into my gullet. I had to go through some process to get to the point of getting an alcoholic beverage in my hand. How did that happen? How did I get in that situation? Did I buy it? Did I end up at a social function I didn't know I was going to? Was I unprepared to deal with that? And if I am so unprepared as to be able to say no to a drink, what am I not doing for my recovery? How committed am I to remaining sober? I know that alcohol is around me all the time -- most of the work I've been doing thus far has revolved around how to stay sober in spite of the presence of alcohol in our culture. My point is that a slip really isn't a "slip" -- at least not for me. It is more aptly called a relapse. Or maybe something else, I'm not sure. But I can't brush it off as just a temporary lapse in judgment and be done with it. No, the world hasn't come to an end if I have had one drink. But my God -- look at what's at stake. Look at where one drink has led me in the past. History always repeats itself. I don't have the luxury of making that mistake again.

    Maybe for someone who is trying to abstain for the first time around, and who is early in abstinence, a slip really is a slip. Cravings can come and sneak up on you and hijack your thinking, and before you know it you have a drink in hand. But for me, I have been around this block too many times to not recognize the signs of a slip -- no, a relapse -- coming well ahead of time. One of those big warning signs for me would be that I would start to allow myself to daydream about a cocktail, or a glass of wine, or a nice cold beer. See how the language works: "a nice cold beer." Even using that language gives the alcohol power in my mind. I try and stay away from that. I strike the words "nice and cold" from that phrase whenever I can. Take everything away from alcohol that might make it enticing, and I'm less likely to have a relapse.

    Anyway, I'm just curious what your thoughts are. Slip or relapse?

    And also: what do you do to prevent it, whatever you call it?
    "Few things are impossible to diligence and skill. Great works are performed not by strength, but perseverance." -- Samuel Johnson (1709 - 1784)

    #2
    Tuesday, November 14

    Why is it anything more than a choice? May be a bad choice, but still a choice. Just my $0.02.

    Comment


      #3
      Tuesday, November 14

      Hummm, Mike you always bring up such thought provoking topics. Thanks a lot! I really shouldn't take time for this cuz im gonna be late you stinker.
      But heres my deal....

      I have like those nice cold beers for 25 years. I would defintally call me a habitual drinker at the very least. Hard to say where I was as a alcoholic....wasn't really a drunk at all, tho I sure could drink a lot.
      Never needed to drink in the am, had the shakes, or never made a fool of myself when drinking, got dui's or stuff like that. Kids never recognized me to have a drinking problem like they did their dad, altho I drank more.
      I know I had a dependence on alcohol for numbing out my emotions and a night time habit thing. If I was upset I would drink much faster till I felt better. A quick fix for sure. So anyway back to your point.

      I equate my quitting drinking a lot to quitting smoking. The habit thing. I only quit smoking once. Decided I was doing it and did it. None of this I'm quitting over and over again stuff. So I dont know about slipping.....so to speak. I did that cold turkey with nicorette gum. I think it helped a little.
      I used a ton of will power for that.

      This time with alcohol I have topamax. I think it helps a lot...like really a lot, or else I am using a ton of will power and dont realize it. I have never tried to quit drinking either before. Only once I tried to stop drinking for 30 days before. Only made it to around 21 or 22. Basically I was a week short of my goal and simply gave myself permission to have a few beers. Then I waited a week to my 30 day goal and drank again and then just slowly worked back into my daily thing again.
      I didn't consider it a slip I - as you said was in total control and just said ok to myself.

      Since that time I have wanted to cut down drinking but just never follow through....not enough will power. I was really bothered about it. Found MWO and started topa and was only gonna do the 30 days abs and then mods but kinda stumbled into 45 days without drinking and then felt sorta burdened....(lol) with abstinence and felt I needed to keep it for a while longer and then it turned into where I am now almost 6 months.

      Crap! I feel like someone dumped their old dog on me and I gotta take care of it and now I am stuck with abs. Is that crazy or what?

      But I want to keep my sobriety. Forever I think. I am not gonna stop topa. I think for a while. My doc and I haven't really discussed it but my prescription is good for 6 more months. So I figure I will be stayin on it that long or until I change my mind. This week I have wanted to drink because of major stress. But I still havent done it. I dont know why. So I dont want to change anything that I am doing. Whatever is working weather I understand it or not I just plan on keeping it.

      I'm not sure if I got off the subject but I need to be done now.
      Love ya everyone.
      Gabby :flower:

      Comment


        #4
        Tuesday, November 14

        Words can mean such different things to different people, eh Mike.

        I'm not fussed about the word slip.. because, to me, it does not mean 'a little slip'.. to me it means i've deluded myself and crashed and burned.. but I might still use the same word... what it means to me matters more than how I think other people perceive the word.

        when people post after a slip.. it does not reflect the word slip in terms of a little trip.. they post with such remorse and pain and agony.. its really a crash and burn - they hate themselves. (I've done this in the past too.. im not immune - i just havent done it in over a year)

        Gabby, I think your negativity with being stuck with abs will alter over time. I think we all resist it so much.. I know I did.. I resisted starting.. I thought i'd keep going till moderation was possible.. I also felt like it was lumbered on me, but just like the word slip.. that wasnt the truth...

        so.. what was the truth.. I woke up to my reality and started to live it.. sure it was a new living.. and I suppose I resisted the change.. but my life is SO much better.. So much.. I cant describe it... to finally be ok with me is a bloody huge thing.. and I enjoy that now. Now, when I see people drinking I see their unhappiness, I see the delusion, I see the pain - (and its often not just those that are drunk). I prefer this and its my choice to stay sober.

        Lucky, I dont think it matters if you keep glasses or not - that is superfluous (is that how you spell it?). It matters if you drink.

        Brigid

        Comment


          #5
          Tuesday, November 14

          I'm with Lucky..a slip or a relapse is the result of a choice regardless what preceded the choice..it's just a reflection of where one is..at that moment. I used to say that I needed every drink I had...I've gone back and forth about how I feel about that statement, but the fact is that when I was ready to move from moderation to abs, it was because that is where I finally came and it took a few binges and feeling bad for me to hurt bad enough to gain enough consciousness to make a move out of it...well, consiousness can be very slippery and in that regard, SLIP is the perfect word to describe what happens..one may SLIP into unconsciousness and resort to auto pilot and old ways of behavior before one even knows they have digressed..sometimes the slip will be a needed reminder of what is at stake...I don't see it as good or bad, it should be percieved as an honest sign to where one is..really, not something to judge or fear, but something to pay serious attention to when it does happen..once you pay attention to it, your consciousness is naturally raised and you will be less likely to SLIP again...relapse or slip..they are just words that point to the same thing...I think it's what one does with a slip that matters.

          Comment


            #6
            Tuesday, November 14

            Mike, I"m online.. fancy a chat?

            Comment


              #7
              Tuesday, November 14

              Cheerio and all that rot:

              I think the systems at work are weird. I wasn?t able to even see this website today, other times no problem. At any rate, I think it best if I don?t even try to sign on any more from my work computer.

              I just don?t identify with the word ?slip? in relation to my abstinence anymore. If I use the word slip, it means somebody was walking on the ice and fell. It means to me, that one fell down, because their bipedal traction was faulty.

              I guess it means that I feel that even one drink right now, would just flip all the switches in my head to the ?on? position. I mean I?ve spent almost 11 months now struggling to turn them all into the ?off? position. One by one. There must be a thousand switches in my brain all making the circuit. I still have many more to get turned off. It?s taken an immense amount of work and effort. Some switches just busted my chops, and took weeks to get to the ?off? position. Some took months. I?m working on others right now, and many I have yet to get to.

              It?s like a crazy puzzle in my head. The switches all seem to have to be turned off in a specific sequence, and I have no map or schematic. It?s just that I have to learn the system, trial and error, bit by bit.

              One stupid beer, would flip all of them into the ?on? position in a millisecond. I already know it, because it?s happened before. Those damn switches are spring loaded I tell you. Then I would go on a binge bender for months, or even years. I already know at least that much about myself. Others may be wired different, but I know that?s the situation for me.

              So right now, no such thing as slip. It would be Chernobyl meltdown, and explosion.

              In my head right now, there is no such defined thing as ?nice, cold ethanol?. It?s ?toxic, flammable, corrosive, non-polar solvent, hydrocarbon, fuel, POISON ethanol..? It has to do with some of those switches I was talking about.

              I do imagine a ?nice, cold glacier-freeze Gatorade? about right now. Now that?s some good stuff!!

              It just has to be that way in my own head. Tried all the rest. Didn?t get the traction.

              Be well.

              Neil

              Comment


                #8
                Tuesday, November 14

                I just love your analogy Extexan! Makes a whole lot of sense to me. I too cannot afford to slip, relapse, whatever you want to call it. Mike, I think it was you who talked about rating your resolve to stay sober back when I had maybe 2 or 3 sober days. I still think about that, as simple as it may seem. If my resolve starts slipping to a 7/10, I know something needs fixing in me to get it back to a "10". I analyze what I am doing and not doing, and what I am really thirsty for. I think about the HALT acronym and how and if that applies. I just booked 2 nights in Yosemite next week. I am taking my 3 boys by myself. My husband has to work and the kids are off from school. Vacations are usually a big trigger for me, but I'm taking a chance on this one that I am in a good place in my head to handle it. Looking forward to hiking and experiencing the beauty with the boys! Thanks for the topic Mike!

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