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If I Arrived at WMO Today....???

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    If I Arrived at WMO Today....???

    When I arrived at MWO, my life was a complete mess. I was drinking 1-2 bottles of wine a night and sometimes, finishing off with Vodka shooters. Arghhhh! Yes, I still managed to hold down an executive job position and I also thought of myself as a "Highly Functioning Alcoholic". I had nearly given up on the idea that I could ever get sober and give up alcohol,let alone be over four years sober and loving my life!

    When I arrived here, I was warmly welcomed by others who were days, weeks and months into their own recovery. I appreciated the Honest, Straight Forward, Information and Support that I received here. I really appreciated being called on my Nonsense and Self Enabling Thinking. I sooo appreciated having the opportunity to learn valuable points from those that were already making the changes that I aspired to.

    Over the past year or so, I have watched with great sadness as MWO has progressively become just another Social network. Yes, alcohol is brought up now and then, but there is very little focus on the seriousness and dedication and brutal honesty that it takes to recover from this deadly disease. I see people that have been at MWO for years, who still cannot string together 30, 60 or 90 days AF, giving advice and enabling newcomers to continue to "Slip" on a regular basis. I observe people taking an "Oh, well......" attitude towards drinking.

    There are still a few long termers on the Army thread, but hardly no solidly AF people posting anywhere else now. I know, for me, I tired of getting slammed for my honesty. I have seen the same happen to many others. I am positively sickened when I read others that have been at MWO for years, claiming that sobriety was instant and easy for most of us, yet so very difficult for them. We all KNOW that there has been nothing easy about this!! And...even though the struggles have lessoned and our sobriety skills are stronger, this is still Not Always Easy. We are all only One Drink Away from Disaster.

    I feel badly for new ones who show up here today, desparately seeking the Solid Support and Information needed to dig themselves out of the sadness and horrors of Alcohol, only to find the emptiness that is now MWO. I know beyond a doubt, that were I to arrive here today, I would not find the tools to sobriety.

    So, to other long termers, I ask. What can we do to turn this around? Do any of you think that MWO can be turned around?

    Thanks for listening and wishing everyone Sobriety and Joy!
    Kate:l
    A Dream is a Wish Your Heart Makes~Cinderella

    AF 12/6/2007

    #2
    If I Arrived at WMO Today....???

    I totally agree Kate...absolutely, in fact I wrote a thread about it last year and it caused uproar.

    MWO has changed so much.....

    Not sure if it can be turned around, the "oh well" approach is all over the boards along with those who JUST DON'T TRY...and say it is harder for them etc etc..

    Does it piss me off? Of course it does.

    I am very grateful for joining when I did, getting the advice and kicks up the arse I needed because that is why I am sober now, had I joined a year ago, I am not so sure...
    "It's not your job to like me, it's mine!"

    AF 10th May 2010
    NF 12th May 2010

    Comment


      #3
      If I Arrived at WMO Today....???

      [QUOTE=Zenstyle;1335799]I luvs ya Oners... but there is no "one size fits all".



      I appreciate what you both are saying... but I have to (lovingly) disagree.

      Kate... as far as people giving advice... and not being sober... Do you honestly think that, in the struggle to gain sobriety, people have not learned a few things along the way? Frankly, I think they have more insight than anyone that hasn't struggled so hard.



      I dunno on this one Zen in fairness...I would personally find it difficult to take advice from people who were not taking their own. Kinda like taking weight loss issues from an obese person feeding their face at the same time but let's agree to differ on that one..

      I have said this before, I NEVER EVER knock anyone for not being sober, getting sober is very very hard and it can take a long time to achieve it, I get that. But there are people on here who NEVER EVER mention their drinking, or ask for help or try any of the tools, those who will think a "slip" is ok, tell others it is ok.
      I see some threads that never discuss drinking issues, but will slip in "oh had a few last night..sigh, have to sort this out! AND NEVER EVER DO ANYTHING TO SORT IT OUT...never try anything new, give meds a go, look in the toolbox thread, come on here and ask for advice...just nothing...
      And then they give advice to others...

      I do think there is very little real help for newbies here anymore and that's just being honest and I think the support was much better a few years ago...
      "It's not your job to like me, it's mine!"

      AF 10th May 2010
      NF 12th May 2010

      Comment


        #4
        If I Arrived at WMO Today....???

        Well I aint intelligent....I cannot even quote lol!
        "It's not your job to like me, it's mine!"

        AF 10th May 2010
        NF 12th May 2010

        Comment


          #5
          If I Arrived at WMO Today....???

          Thanks, Oney and Zen. Actually, I very much appreciate the Army thread. There is always a good mix of friendship and frolic along with, as Zen said a "snap too" when needed. Yes, I think we all need some fun and friendships along with the serious business of recovery.

          My issue is not with newbies trying to find their way or with others that find themselves in a struggle. My issue is that there are far too many with an "oh well, sigh, I slipped again" attitude. Or who just drink and act like it is "no big deal" and this after years of being here. Listen, if anyone chooses to continue drinking, it is their business. I am sure as hell not the "Booz Police", but at the same time, this site was created for people to get help with problems with Alcohol, and the way that I see it, we have lost so much of the honesty and support that we once had here. Just my thoughts, you can certainly choose to think differently.
          A Dream is a Wish Your Heart Makes~Cinderella

          AF 12/6/2007

          Comment


            #6
            If I Arrived at WMO Today....???

            KateH1;1335812 wrote: Thanks, Oney and Zen. Actually, I very much appreciate the Army thread. There is always a good mix of friendship and frolic along with, as Zen said a "snap too" when needed. Yes, I think we all need some fun and friendships along with the serious business of recovery.

            My issue is not with newbies trying to find their way or with others that find themselves in a struggle. My issue is that there are far too many with an "oh well, sigh, I slipped again" attitude. Or who just drink and act like it is "no big deal" and this after years of being here. Listen, if anyone chooses to continue drinking, it is their business. I am sure as hell not the "Booz Police", but at the same time, this site was created for people to get help with problems with Alcohol, and the way that I see it, we have lost so much of the honesty and support that we once had here. Just my thoughts, you can certainly choose to think differently.
            Again, I totally agree....
            "It's not your job to like me, it's mine!"

            AF 10th May 2010
            NF 12th May 2010

            Comment


              #7
              If I Arrived at WMO Today....???

              I joined in February of this year and have gotten tons of support. I could not have quit without MWO. In the Newbie's Nest everyone who posts there is serious about sobriety. Yes, some people slip, but they are their own worst critics and I dare say no one in the Nest would look away or pat someone on the back who continuously posted that they were drinking without trying to quit, or moderate. In fact, it is a place where moderators are not very welcome and are frequently asked to post in the moderation thread, IF they want to come in the Nest and discuss their nightly AL consumption.

              I haven't really posted much in other on-going type threads like the Army because frankly I just don't feel like I fit in. Maybe I will one day, but then I am a yank too.:H

              I have seen some people who say they just CAN'T do 30 days or even a week, after years being here, and therefore moderate to do "less harm". I don't buy it, but I also cannot live inside anyone else's head but my own. If there are people here who drank from sun up to sun down and were able to quit, then it's pretty lame IMHO to claim that it's impossible for YOU.

              Just my thoughts and thank you, Kate, for bringing this up.

              Lg


              "I like people too much or not at all."
              Sylvia Plath

              Comment


                #8
                If I Arrived at WMO Today....???

                Hi LG, I am happy to hear that The Nest is doing well....and that you can find some solid support there!

                You bring up another interesting topic and that is the one of "Moderating". According to Roberta Jewel, in her book "My Way Out", Drinking in Moderation is attempted only after 30 days AF. After that, a true moderator is able to adopt a "Take it or Leave It" relationship with AL. RJ uses the example of eating "Butter", a little butter on occasion enhances the eating experience, but not daily and not in huge amounts. These days I have seen people post that "Moderation is different for everyone" and that "Not drinking as much as they did before is Moderating, or that drinking only certain days of the week, etc. etc. It is like, getting drunk "Less" is moderation and this simply is NOT the fact. In fact, this way of thinking is truly "Denial".

                Like I said before, if people choose to drink, it is their business. But, I think that choosing to continually justify drinking, here on this forum, makes this forum and unstable place for others who are truly working the hard work of getting sober and staying sober. I also think that it keeps those that are serious about recovery away from MWO, as do the "Private" threads and threads that are like Jr. High School cliques!

                Thank you for sharing here, LG! Much continued Success to you!
                Kate
                A Dream is a Wish Your Heart Makes~Cinderella

                AF 12/6/2007

                Comment


                  #9
                  If I Arrived at WMO Today....???

                  Ho hum. Well, I read this thread and wasn't going to post. But then went back to it and re-read it. And decided to come on and put in my tuppence worth. I am not good at any sort of confrontation - not saying that this IS - BUT, as I read it I wondered if I was the sort of person that Kate was talking about.......

                  I have been here for a number of years. I arrived here in November of 2009. I still drink. I have had my times of being AF. But I still drink. And yes, I offer advice. I would not say that I enable newcomers to slip but we all have different ways of handling it when people slip. A lot of folk here do not think I have a problem as such - although I drink, I never drink to excess - never get drunk, have hangovers, etc..... but DO still drink - I can't even say I mod - 'cos I don't. I drink daily. It is a constant struggle for me. Even with my one or two - it is still daily. YES, if I took my Kudzu and my L-glut, it would probably work - and I know I need to, and yes, i am probably using this as a social forum - I have made a lot of friends here - BUT, I have also helped a lot of folk too...... I have always been honest with my situation - never lied about it to anyone. I was AF for three months this year then 'slipped' again and haven't gone back to AF again yet.

                  Maybe my situation isn't bad enough for me to understand the horrors Kate? All I know is that me being here has helped folk. I do understand where you are coming from with your post and that you want the whole forum to be more serious. However - I think that any newbie coming in DOES get the help they need. One does not have to be AF to post and help people. In fact sometimes it can be daunting. Just any hand held out to a newbie is welcome. I cannot put together 30, 60 or 90 days AF - and admire those who can, and I know it must have been really hard for you, and trust me - I definitely do not have an "Oh well" attitude towards anyone who slips - seeing as I am on that slippery road myself right now as from March.

                  I DO know what you are saying, BUT, those of us who are not AF CAN offer advice, even if we are not as good as we could be. I know - and taking a leaf out of your book am being honest here - I KNOW, that if I took my Kudzu and my L-Glut, I COULD be AF and right now am working on that - but have had a best friends hubs die so having had the funeral on Friday, thought I would get that over and then try and start again... always trying - maybe not hard enough eh?????

                  Do not feel badly for the newbies that show up here - they can and DO get solid information and support - even if it is from folk that are not AF. It is from people that are on the journey, like themselves. I envy you your sobriety and joy - I know it wasn't easy for you. I will be there with you one day. I did do 8 months one time..... then broke my foot, and was home bored and thought I could have one drink ... BIG MISTAKE. Back down the slippery road but the people here gave me support and honest to goodness help and were not judgemental at all....... which I would have run a mile from.

                  Kate - I appreciate your post - it is honest and from the heart - and I hope that you appreciate mine......

                  Sun XX
                  How simple it is to see that we can only be happy now and there will never be a time when it is not now....

                  Comment


                    #10
                    If I Arrived at WMO Today....???

                    Kate - I started my post before you posted the thread before mine, so after I had posted mine i saw yours - if that makes any sense...... so you are saying that we shouldn't be here if folk like me, continue to drink? just curious.......

                    sun X
                    How simple it is to see that we can only be happy now and there will never be a time when it is not now....

                    Comment


                      #11
                      If I Arrived at WMO Today....???

                      Actually sunshinedaisies, if it is just one or two a day, even if daily, I don't see the need for a struggle to quit. After all that is the recommended dosage of AL. If you able to do that without wanting or consuming more, then I see no problem.


                      "I like people too much or not at all."
                      Sylvia Plath

                      Comment


                        #12
                        If I Arrived at WMO Today....???

                        LOL...Zen, you have a habit of making me laugh!

                        But, I agree with you. It is about the "Effect" that Al has on our lives and not the quantity or even frequency. For some, AL is truly "Life Threatening" for other it is about the "Quality of Life" and for some it can mean the loss of relationships.

                        Sun, I am not calling out any names, nor was the intent of my post to call anyone out. If my post struck some nerves, I will not take that responsibility on myself, it is not my conscience speaking in that case.

                        No, I do not expect all of MWO to be "serious", but, when it comes to alcohol, this is very serious for most of us, otherwise most of us would not be here.

                        Speaking the Truth and the facts about alcohol, is Not being Judgmental....but I do believe that calling out those of us that take alcohol seriously is "Judging". Trust me during my sobriety I have had to face very tough stuff, three deaths, including my father and close friend. Wearing two casts while a broken wrist ankle and hand healed from a bad fall and a lot of other stuff. Many here cannot drink due to the horrible things that life through's at us, because to drink would cause us only far more harm and heartbreak.

                        Evidently, there are a lot of people here that are feeling much as I do, as I have had to empty my pm box already. Sadly, these people are fearful of the "Judgement" that they will receive if they post publicly. This greatly saddens me.

                        As far as giving advice to others, I think Oney said it well. Would we learn to loose weight from and obese person? Could we learn French from one who cannot speak the language?

                        We should all be able to voice our point of view here as long as it is healthy and honest. That includes those of us who are serious about sobriety and want to share what we know to be true. At least it is the Truth that we have come to understand.
                        A Dream is a Wish Your Heart Makes~Cinderella

                        AF 12/6/2007

                        Comment


                          #13
                          If I Arrived at WMO Today....???

                          I was going on the fact that she said she never drank to "excess" so clearly she doesn't see it as excessive either. Also, she said she never gets drunk or has hangovers. I know that some people take much less to get drunk than I did, and can experience hangovers with much less consumption than I had, but that is not the case here.

                          Sorry if I didn't see the conundrum.


                          "I like people too much or not at all."
                          Sylvia Plath

                          Comment


                            #14
                            If I Arrived at WMO Today....???

                            I have to agree to some extent to every post that has been made here. Kate, with all due respect, congratulations! You have done so well.
                            But, this is a different year with different people. I would love that all those who had success would come back and help out more but unfortuately there are not so many. We do have a few that are dedicated to giving back and it helps so much with those at whatever stage they are in their journey. For that person that still drinks daily but has reduced or cut down by a few days a week, or gained more AF days than any other year, it is an accomplishment for them. We each may not fully understand each persons goal but I think acceptance then comes into it - each to their own.
                            I am pleased that at least everyone gets something by being here.
                            In a months time or more it could all be different again but I am also sure that it will be a gainful experience for so many people.
                            We never know here who is going to knock the door next, but we do know they need us and we will do what we can - not experts, just people together trying to find a way...
                            IT'S NEVER TOO LATE TO BE WHAT YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN
                            Relapse starts long before the drink is drunk!!.Fresh Start!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              If I Arrived at WMO Today....???

                              Okay Kate. we have all had awful things happen to us. My dad died due to Al. I have faced other stuff due to AL which I am not going to go into - it is not necessary - I too, have lost close friends due to AL - I think most of us here have. It goes with the territory. Broken bones etc.....

                              As for the analogy to an obese person, yes, I understand that, I understand the analogy - but because I have been there I DO understand. I may not be hugely obese, but I know the problems. The way you speak, makes it sound as if they would be judged - not understood. Plus there are shades of grey - not just black and white - not everyone is totally one way or the other. There are inbetweens. When I came here I was in inbetween. I wasn't blacking out every night - I needed someone like me to talk to...... so - if, because I was not supposed to be on the site because I wasn't AF, WHO would they talk to?

                              You said that you have had to empty your pm box already because folk feel as you do - have them post!! If they all feel as you do, then folk like me, that are not AF, but just stay on the site, just struggling along, will just not hang around. I always felt that we needed all of us here - you - those who have been Af for ages and are just great, that we really admire; folk like me who struggle but who manage to have the AF time now and then, and those who just can't seem to manage any AF time. The site is made up with all of us. Get rid of any one of these groups and the site goes.

                              I do speak a little French.........
                              How simple it is to see that we can only be happy now and there will never be a time when it is not now....

                              Comment

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