Mod Squad October Thread

[Eve11]

Mod Squad October Thread

I may have a drink on occasion. Every weekend is not an occasion

Sunbeam,

I too love your signature line but I'm not sure I can ever get there.

Despite all of my reading, research, etc. I still don't have the answers I am looking for about my affliction.

The fact that I am here getting support for my "drinking Problem" has some book authors believing I am alcoholic and they would believe that everyone else here is too "because nonalcoholics don't seek help for their drinking problems."

Granted there is alcohol abuse versus alcoholism but abuse generally happens when people are young (party stage) but then they mature, grow out of it, most marry, settle down and then drink responsibly. I on the other hand went through the party stage, got married, etc. but the week-end partying continued.

I was walking out of a restaurant once with an overweight friend. On a table was an unfinished glass of wine and an unfinished piece of cake. Simultatenously we both said..."Wow!! How could they leave that (piece of cake (her), (glass of wine (me). Same feelings...different addictions.

Am I missing an enzyme that allows my body to process alcohol differently - thus giving me the vampire effect of "have to have another one!!" once I have one? Or is it an allergy response? Or is it????

I still don't have the answer. Maybe Nancy or Mario or Bossman who are avid readers/researchers can pipe in. All I know is I don't think I personally can ever be an occasional drinker. The best I can hope for is good harm reduction and work hard at trying to meet my goals of no more than 7 per week. But I am still there Sunbeam, every week-end enjoying my wine and somtimes wishing I wasn't doing that as being AF FEELS SO GOOD the next day.

Just my thoughts. Thanks for sharing yours. Love you.
Hugs,
Eve11

[Sunbeam]

Mod Squad October Thread

Hi Eve,
WIP would have said that your abusive drinking changed your body chemistry and neruology, so that you (and I) will never be like others who can take or leave alcohol. I also share your history of alcohol abuse in the family: four of us five siblings have struggeled at some time with alcohol, in spite of the fact that our parents rarely drank. But there is the family history, of which I become more aware as I watch some cousins pour alcohol down the hatch! What's different are our emotions, which also get tangled up with our body chemistry and neurology.

take care!

[Sarasmiles]

Mod Squad October Thread

Hey Squad!

It felt so good just now to get caught up, reading your posts. I miss you guys.

I'm glad to hear that folks are doing as well as you are...I hear the struggle, too. It's tough. Eve, I've had thoughts just exactly like yours, wondering why it is that one drink isn't enough. I was never comfortable after one glass of wine. It inevitably made me crave more. Sometimes two felt pretty good and satisfied the yearning for a buzz, but more often I wanted a third. It feels much less stressful to me to just commit to not drinking at all. But I completely understand not doing it! I spoke with my beloved sister tonight, who drinks 2-3 glasses of wine every night. She was amazed to hear that I'd gone nearly a month without a drink, and said she couldn't possibly do that. But she doesn't worry about her drinking. She seems to think 2-3 a night is okay. Maybe it is for some people. For me, that much alcohol makes me depressed.

I've added a challenging factor to my recent AF life, and once again gone off of Prozac. I'm having some withdrawal symptoms from that. I've been irritable, dizzy, and a little teary. The worst is the irritability, since, as most of you know I've got three little boys who are the center of my life. I hate to be irritable with them. It has made me want to drink in the last couple of days, but I've resisted, since I know in my heart it will only make things worse.

It seems to me that a major factor in deciding about moderation versus abstinence is the stability of one's moods. If I weren't so vulnerable to depression I would be a much better candidate for moderation. I guess I've said this before.

Mooderator, I know how you feel about not fitting in on certain threads. I like the AF daily folks, but I find the new thread every day method hard to do. I usually post late at night, and then my posts get lost by morning when a new thread starts. I'm not sure where I can fit in, but I know I need MWO. I'll keep trying. I like the company here at the Mod Squad!

Anyway, love to you all...Sara

[mario]

Mod Squad October Thread

eve asked me what i thought so here are a few things,hope it helps as i am no expert and have just learned a lot by reading previous posts/threads

Controlled or moderate drinking -- setting the Goal.

What goal you set and how you achieve that goal is ultimately your choice and your responsibility.

Setting the goal.

For most of you, you will be coming to this point from a position of heavy drinking. So, you will have to make decisions about how you get to your ultimate goal. There are three possible ways of achieving this.

First, you can take them down by reducing your alcohol consumption until you reach the goal that you have set. Those who benefit from this method tend to be people who are in heavy drinkers, and fear withdrawals. The problem with this method is that it prolongs heavy drinking.

Second, you can abstain from alcohol or start drinking at a moderate level immediately.

Third, you can start with an initial period of abstinence, usually or14 or 28 days, during which time, you can decide on the best goal for yourself.

Research has shown that those who successfully maintain abstinence for the short period of time, and more successful in the long run for a number of reasons.

Firstly abstaining for this period of time, reduces tolerance. Hence, alcohol has a greater effect at lower doses.

Secondly, abstaining from this period of time allows cognitive abilities dulled by alcohol to improve significantly.

Thirdly, abstaining from alcohol for this period of time, allows you to begin dealing with temptations, craving and social pressure to drink.

Whatever method you choose, to achieve your goal. It is strongly recommended that if you have been drinking heavily for a considerable amount of time that you have a period of abstinence prior to attempting to control your drinking

[mario]

Mod Squad October Thread

found this as well

Firstly, you need to look at the maximum quantity that you will drink in any given day. This will usually be set by the recommended limits in your country.

Secondly, you need to decide on the maximum number of days in any one week, that you will drink. Almost all countries suggest that you should have at least two or three days, alcohol free. These are minimum numbers, and you can drink on less days if you choose.

Thirdly, you should choose the maximum amount of alcohol that you will drink in a week. Again there will be guidance in your country on the maximum quantity per week.

Fourthly, you should specify the tapes of beverages that you can and cannot drink. You may have found from experience that there are certain types of alcohol that you should avoid. For example, many people specify that they should avoid spirits or hard liquor.

Fifthly, you should specify the times when you should not drink. For example, you may have found from experience that when you drink when you're angry that this normally leads to intoxication. Therefore, you rule may be that when you're angry you'll avoid drinking altogether.

Sixthly, you should specify where you should drink and where you shouldn't drink. Again you may have found from experience that there are certain places when you drink that you can control your drinking, and it never leads to any problems however, in other places you may have found the opposite.

Lastly, you should specify the time period that you will evaluate these rules over. Remember these rules are for you and they are not written in tablets of stone. If they are not working, then change them if they don't suit you, then change them.

[Tabbers (a.k.a. KTAB)]

Mod Squad October Thread

mooderator;728423 wrote: Hi guys...this is funny...

You may or may not know, that I started a thread about an AF october.....got lots of people interested and kept checking it and posting there. A big group got together and it was great. Then the first came and some else took it upon themselves to start a new thread for OCTSOBER..fine no problem with that, but we seemed to loose a few...and I think someone else started a similar thread and some went there....anyway since October actually started, the thread is going well and there are lots of posts...GREAT..but somehow I just dont seem to fit into it at all. I am reading with the intent to post...find I have NAF ALL to day and leave it...so I am sort of retreating back HOME to you guys...where I always feel I fit in and have something to contribute! I dont know if its because the group are perhaps those doing their first 30 days mainly and they have more in common with each other...who knows, but I am back.

Love to All

Good morning all, Mooderator I understand totally what you are saying about the october challange because I am feeling the same way about it. In hindsight I think doing 30 days AF for me is a lot different to when I first stopped drinking and I honestly feel I have more in common in here with you guys than with the people than those who are struggling or attempting it first time round.

Mario thanks very much for your input, you have made some very valid points. I would like to add, that in my opinion, trying to taper down to modderation levels for us is just not going to work. I think a period of AF is an absolute must in order to succeed long term.
For me that was 90 days. After all if we could have tapered down surely we would have done this years ago and we wouldnt be here on MWO.
I think that modding is an achievable goal long term for some of us, however it is hard work and if it gets to the stage where it is taking up way too much of our thinking then surely abstenance is a better choice?
It was always my plan to go AF again after 6 weeks because I believe I need the clarity of thought that comes with a sustained period of AF. It is only then that I can properly decide what is the right next step.
For me modding is about creating boundries just as we have to do in all other areas of our lives. Personally this involves limiting both my intake and frequency. My sobriety was hard won and I treasure it greatly.
Just a final thought on one of the points I wrote down for myself before my first attempt at picking up a drink again, "I honestly think it is like trying to start to walk again, forget everthing we knew, all our bad habits and drinking behavour patterns and try to learn from scratch how to drink 'normally'. I imagine this is where many people fail, we have to totally change our mind sets".
Thanks for listening and sorry for the long post.

[mooderator]

Mod Squad October Thread

I am glad it is not just ME...KTAB and SARA...I think it just boils down to finding a thread with people you feel comfortable with, who's opinions you feel you want to listen to and respond to...and who you feel supported by and can try and give support to....I tried something else and found it wasnt for me at this time. I am sticking firmly with the squad and reverting to posting on my moo's plan thread as I was getting a lot out of that. I sort of lost touch with it when MIL died and I wasnt able to post for a while. In truth it has taken time just settle back down in every area of life. I am definitely coming back to it all now.

I have been AF during the week again without a second thought for a couple of weeks again. I got to friday night (PMT WEEK HERE) and wanted a beer with my pizza (we went out) so I had two beers, did not have the urge for a third and went home happy. On saturday, we had a small dinner party, just us and one other couple and I poured myself one very small (less than a shot Gin and Tonic). I drank that over the whole meal, didnt want or have any more.

For me this a very successful modding weekend. Probably my best ever. I have had plenty of AF weekends and will have many many more, but I am really pleased that somewhere along the line with all this, I am getting more able to drink less when I do drink.

So, even though I had great plans for 30 days through October, and I modded instead this weekend, I actually feel great about it, because I know my modding is improving.

SUNBEAM you once said to me that you dont think in terms of periods longer than two weeks AF. I know oftentimes you may go longer periods than that AF, but the point is you dont put yourself under pressure to achieve more. I think this is VERY WISE indeed. I dont know if you have LEARNT not to think in terms of longer through trial and error or what. But I am learning that when I start with all these grand plans. for X number of days AF, my mind starts to OVERTHINK it and makes too much of an issue of it. I starts to preoccupy my thoughts, when normally that is not the case. So I am learning from this and just planning one AF weekend at a time when it suits me....which is never the week before my period...how to set myself up for failure.

Thank you for your thoughts and research MARIO....interesting reading....

SARA I am glad you are checkin in with us...you are doing great girl...x

[free bird]

Mod Squad October Thread

WOW, I thought it was just me. No matter what I say or do it just gets mixed up with I am just starting this journey, when I have been on it for a very long time and I HAVE made some great improvements that I am very happy with. I am a modder and want to be a modder and have quit for long periods of time, but I can't put alcohol out there as the complete enemy when I know the enemy is inside of me; not outside. So I need to work on what is inside of me and control it - own it if you will.

Moo -- I feel like I know what you are talking about.

I can go days without thinking about drinking, but when it is a special occasion I want to be able to have a glass of wine (or beer with my pizza) and leave it at that and I think I can. And I have. I am still working on it, but I do believe it is achieveable for me.

I just found this thread because I was looking for something else that fits me better. I hope I can find a good place here where I am understood. I don't feel like I belong on the other threads because of the harsh criticism given to modders. I am a nonjudement type of person and just want the same in return. I don't think it is fair to judge someone based on your experiences. We are all different.

You all here have provided much need insight for me today. I was about ready to stop posting (AGAIN) because I find it difficult to find that happy medium here sometimes.....We are all not that lost and confused and bumbling along.....We are just slow....and careful.

I'll be back to let you all know what my goals (really) are for the month of October. They started out being completely AF, so for the most part, that is true. This weekend was my birthday, so I had a lovely meal at a great restaurant yesterday out in the country that serves mostly organic meals. I really felt like a glass of wine would be nice, and it was, and it was done with moderation. Sometimes, I feel like I am beating myself up over this too much and it can drive me nuts. I know I am rambling on, but it feels really good to get it off my chest (here). I really just want to be a better/healthier person that is all.

Free (like a bird)

[mooderator]

Mod Squad October Thread

WELCOME Freebird...

This thread is perfect for you if you want to keep AL in your life here and there and are either modding or as SUNBEAM calls it OCCASIONAL DRINKING. I am normally much more of the SUNBEAM camp, but for reasons life has throw at me August and early SEPT were more about modding in general. Now back to it.

I think you will find what you want here. In fact I am sure of it. The SQUAD dont judge, they encourage each other, enable growth and facilitate improvement. Or at least that has been my experience.

Look forward to getting to know you properly FREEBIRD and HAPPY BIRTHDAY.

I am just back from a 2 hour walk with Mr Moo. It was lovely, really lovely. Bit of housework to do now. Not as much fun, but I love the feeling when it is done. Sense of cleaness and achievement.

Love to all.

[free bird]

Mod Squad October Thread

Thanks Moo, What you have said means a lot to me. I kinda like the mentality of OCCASIONAL DRINKER too. Thanks Sunbeam for a new phrase for my arsenal. I was thinking the other day that same thing....Hmm.

Gots to go to Hockey and then Soccer games. Long, two hour walk sounds great too.

Free

[Sunbeam]

Mod Squad October Thread

Hi all,
FreeBird, Welcome! Is that flower in your avatar tradescantia (spiderwort)? I grow a lot of perennial flowers, and shrubs. This plant hasn't been in my garden until I bought Miss Kate this summer. The blue flowers with the chartruse foliage is quite striking. I bought it in August, and it has continued to produce a few flowers until just the past couple of weeks.

I too beat myself up a lot about my drinking, even though I don't drink too much. I'm just tired of it, though not planning to go AF. I have already lost enough time in my life to alcohol, and I don't want to lose any more. But I do feel it is reasonable to relax with some wine and friends, from time to time. I'm glad to see you are also on Drink Tracker. It is a great tool to prevent alcohol from getting out of hand without realizing it.

Moo, welcome HOME. I personally am delighted that you will be posting here instead of on that AF thread. I enjoy your company, especially since we are on the same occasional drinking path. Once a person has done some significant AF time, I think you have to have alcohol in the picture so you can continue to learn how to deal with it. That's true for me anyway, but we are all different.

Sara, always glad to see you here. Glad you are taking that prozac step, it must not be easy. I hope your kiddos are doing well in school this year.

KTAB, so you also gave up on the AF month. I did that too, in August 2008. That was when I learned that I didn't have much to learn by going another month AF. I think I did make it two weeks, actually starting in late July. And by the end of August, I did make serious changes; that was when I started to limit myself to no more than once weekly, and also began working toward the occasional drinking concept with frequent AF weekends. Live and learn. So many of us are not only getting alcohol under control, but also re-starting our lives.

OK, enough posting. I have some chores to do before bedtime. This was an easier AF weekend for me. No desire at all to have anything to drink. Cutting back even more is a good decision for me.

Take care, all.

[Tabbers (a.k.a. KTAB)]

Mod Squad October Thread

Hello Freebird :welcome:

Hi Sunbeam sorry I didnt make myself clear, I am doing October AF.
But I just decided I like hanging around with you guys because hey I am an ocasional drinker now too, just not for Oct though

[tassimo]

Mod Squad October Thread

Hey Mooderator,,,you had a fantastic weekend indeed! Well done! You are my hero...I aim to achieve that kind of control. Thanks for inspiring...

[nancy]

Mod Squad October Thread

Hi Eve

I think you ask a really complicated question. And indeed, yes would be interesting to hear what Boss.man has to say as he knows a lot about biology.

I think I am more attuned to psychological issues as opposed to the biology. I am not a doctor so excuse over-simplifications MDs out there.

I have read that the way you are physically, neurologically, changes as a result of your behavior. But then that could be changed back. In fact, I saw a program the other night about depression. Cognitive behavior therapy has similar effect on the brain as an anti-depressant drug. So clearly your environment and relationships can affect your brain chemistry.

So is a drinking problem reversible? While the dogmatic vision is to not differentiate between degree of alcohoholism I think this is a mistake. The National Insitute for Alcoholism and Abuse offers a test to see where you are in terms of dependency. Clearly there are MAJOR differences between people who have drinking problems in terms of a psychological dependence issue and an extreme physical dependence. And then clearly there could be different solutions.

Your response at dinner with your friend? Ok there are parallels, alcohol is sugar as is dessert.

I think though it is hard to know how to advise without knowing more. The most obvious explanation, which would resonate with me, is that the alcohol is a treat for you. And for me and a lot of people, that treat is giving you a release. In that case you would work with stress issues and get better at dealing with it.

The treatment for food addiction and eating disorders is typically cognitive behavior therapy and/or anti-depressants.

There's really a very strong psychological component to all of these problems.

People can change behaviors. Be genuinely good to yourself, find substitutes for the behavior you want to change, celebrate success, address some of the underlying causes.

And minimize alcohol whenever you can. I like what Bossman and Sunbeam have written about keeping the cravings at bay by minimizing intake.

One other thing, not sure hanging out with someone who gives into addiction is great for you or your friend. Maybe next time, see a movie instead!

So Eve what is alcohol to you? A big relief? A treat? Are you in therapy?

And how much is that treat worth? So short term you get a break, long term you are unhappy. It's really very clear. A therapist once told me that everyone has their goodies and like children, we don't want to give them up.

Nahcy

[mooderator]

Mod Squad October Thread

Hi ALL

SUNBEAM..its a pleasure to be HOME. Your knowledge of flowers and gardening is impressive. Wish you lived in the UK, could pick your brains more. But I guess different climate would alter advise.

Thank you TASSI- I seem to have largely nailed the regularity of consumption and mainly keep if for occasions, or at least weekends and NOT as SUNNI says every weekend. The amounts have been improving more and more with time. I seem to be getting the idea more often than not now. It can be done.

KTAB - well done in your OCTOBER endeavour. I am AF now for a bit too. No definite dates, I find that approach isnt working for me. I am starting with next weekend AF then we shall see.

FREEBIRD - keep posting here. I doubt whether you will ever feel tempted to stop posting again.

NANCY - great post.

TO ANYONE I MAY HAVE MISSED OR WHO IS LURKING - HELLO!

DEEBS in particular...I hope all is going well with the family visit.


love MOOOO