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[Eve11]

Using the Drink Tracker

KevFromCanberra;1036326 wrote: Its annoying that meeting up with this old mate involved having to consume so much booze.

Kev,
As you continue on the moderating path, you will start to see triggers. It's like the poem about walking down the street, seeing the hole and falling in. Have you heard that one?

Here it is:
There Is a Hole in My Sidewalk
Autobiography in Five Short Chapters
By Portia Nelson

Chapter One
I walk down the street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I fall in.
I am lost?I am helpless.
It isn?t my fault.
It takes forever to find a way out.

Chapter Two
I walk down the street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I pretend that I don?t see it.
I fall in again.
I can?t believe I am in this same place.
But, it isn?t my fault.
It still takes a long time to get out.

Chapter Three
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep whole in the sidewalk.
I see it is there.
I still fall in?it?s a habit?but,
My eyes are open
I know where I am
It is my fault.
I get out immediately,

Chapter Four
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I walk around it.

Chapter Five
I walk down another street.

For me Kev, I had to learn to walk down another street and that did have to include eliminating some people from my life and as you can guess it was the people who would pull me down into bad drinking patterns because they have a big problem themselves.

As you think about your consequences of a mad wife and plans that had to be altered, you will become stronger to make some of the changes you need to make to moderate the way you want to. It's a big learning curve and for some a continuous struggle but I appreciate your honesty and willingness to look at yourself. Hang with us. Read old archives here as there is so much good info we old modders have shared with each other in the past.

So glad you're here!
:l
Eve11

[KundaliniGirl]

Using the Drink Tracker

Eve, thanks for posting this! Love it.

KG

[KevFromCanberra]

Using the Drink Tracker

Eve11;1036486 wrote:
Chapter Five
I walk down another street.

This is the solution that I will probably aim at.

I dont see that it is going to possible or desirable for me to hang out with big drinkers trying to just be some sort of dry-drunk, sipping on soft drinks or juice while the "big boys" drink the hard stuff. There are enough other things to do in life than sit on a stool pouring fluids down my throat and listening to B.S.

I am also currently trying to deal with a few extra kilos that have built up over the years. I could never do a diet while drinking because of all the late night snacking on junk food that goes with drinking for me. On days when I would not drink I would often call in at the shops and get a bag full of chocolates and other confectionary and scoff all that down while watching TV or reading after the evening meal. My wife could never understand how I could down a 6 pack of beer and follow it with a tub of ice cream. I used to say that it was better than another 6 pack, but not sure she appreciated that argument.

I feel that I need to get away completely from the concept that pleasure involves consuming stuff, whether its food or drink. Even non-alcoholic drinks. I dont want to find out that I have worked up to drinking litres of soft drinks every day. That would still be giving my liver and kidneys a battering. I need to concentrate on moving my body, doing long walks, exploring the world around me, and also doing stuff that stretches the brain learning new skills, going to stimulating movies etc.

So I will definitely be trying to walk down new streets (literally) and avoid the old streets with the potholes (the ones with the drinking establishments in them).

[KundaliniGirl]

Using the Drink Tracker

YOGA

Ken, I don't know if this would be an option for you, but I'd like to mention it just in case. You never know...........

All my life I have been very health conscious. I grew up with a mother who was the original health nut - not in the stereotypical way most people envision, but in the following way: she believed we should eat fresh foods so I rarely ate anything out of a can, she believed in things being made from scratch, i.e. no boxed or frozen (processed) foods, and we never had sodas in our house. So, good food is just what I naturally want to eat. I never acquired a taste for the "bad" stuff and on the occasions I eat it, it makes me feel horrible.

So, that was really fortunate for me, because I've never had a weight problem. Now, that was a long route for me to get here:

My form of exercise has always been jogging, which I love. I think there's something wonderful about being outside. Also, occasionally through the years I've taken a yoga or other type "class." Well, I just discovered what I think will be my permanent "exercise" from here on out. Kundalini Yoga by Maya Fiennes - as brought to the West by Yogi Bajhan (sp?). My husband has even joined me in doing her tapes and he likes it very much (he's hard to please and not into exercise, so this says a lot). Anyway, I read on another thread that you're a "scanner." I am too, yet this yoga has really grabbed me. Its a wonderful combination of meditation, exercise and stretching. It's not difficult, but it is very effective.

It's kind of like the epiphany I had when I learned that giving up alcohol was a blessing not a depivation...........this yoga is like that for me..............it has given me something I never new existed in the form of feeling good and aquiring peace..............

I bought all of her CDs from her website:

Kundalini yoga from Maya Fiennes of MayaSpace

It may not be for you, but I absolutely love it. You could try one tape and see what you think. The beauty of it is the way it dovetails with not drinking............somehow I feel like I've found something I've long wanted in the comination of not drinking and doing this yoga (a peace and interconnectedness with something outside myself).

Incidentally, I'm not real limber or anything like that, so if you decide to give it a whirl, don't worry that you're not in good enough shape.

KG

[Eve11]

Using the Drink Tracker

Kundalini Girl,
Great info. Whether Kev feels he could get into yoga or not, at least something major has been recognized and that is to develop other interests. I took care of (I'm an R.N.) a long time addict the other day and was trying to ask him what interests he had as I was trying to get him to focus on something else other than the desire for the cigarette he wanted in our non-smoking hospital. Sadly he said, "I have to be honest, I've been so busy my whole life just trying to get my next fix that I've never developed any interest in anything else." We are so blessed in our world of music, arts, travel, hobbies, etc. It is so great to redirect our energy on other things. One day my old drinking girlfriend came over years ago and we decided not to drink that visiit. We had so much fun moving furniture and redecorating one of my rooms while we chatted and caught up. Afterwards we thought about how different and non-productive things would have been had we just sat drinking and chatting.

Getting rid of the booze of being the major focus in our lives is a huge blessing. Unlike my addict patient,
I don't want to live to think about my next drink. Should it happen in my evening on a week-end or at a function...great. But I don't want to plan my life anymore (and haven't for years now that I've been moderating) around making the drink happen.

Took my sons and MIL to lunch yesterday. My son said "Oh, look, Bloody Mary's for $2.00" (huge sign was on the door). A few years ago I definitely would have ordered that drink. But thanks to my new moderating lifestyle, drinks rarely go well at lunch time and the hot Chinese tea was a delight.

Onward and upward my friends. Kev...you will do great. Just keep walking down that "other" road with us.
:l
Eve11

[KundaliniGirl]

Using the Drink Tracker

I don't want to live to think about my next drink.

Eve, my sentiments exactly. And, conversely, it's nice to to be able to not have to think too much about the drink you can NEVER have. That's why I want to make moderating work. And, I know that in order to do that, I'll have to drink seldom and a very controlled amount when I do. If that ever becomes a struggle again, it's AF for me.

I like the story about you and your girlfriend. Isn't it nice to know that you can do things without alcohol. But, for situations like Ken's night out that he now thinks was a waste, well, those friends just sometimes have to go...........probably not a big loss. We just have to refocus. And, having a hobby is so important!

BTW Eve, can you tell me your story? How you came to MWO and how long you've been modding, etc?

xx,
KG

[KevFromCanberra]

Using the Drink Tracker

KG, I will check out that yoga. I will say that I have never been good with my attempts at meditation, relaxation stuff etc. Yoga might be more physical so it might work for me. I did try hypnosis once when I lived in England as a cure for drinking. It was hopeless. My mind needs to be spinning with new ideas and active at all times. The lady who was hypnotising me said that I went into a trance almost immediately, she had never seen anything like it. Sadly it meant that I did not get the advantage of the affirmations that she was trying to implant in me, because I was fast asleep rather than being in a trance. It was quite soothing and relaxing, but not really achieving the required result. I seem to recall popping into a pub for a pint on the way home from the session. I really struggle if I am not having a constant flow of fresh information fed into my brain. And it has to be at my speed. I find that I go to sleep in most movies now because its too passive a form of getting information, but I am OK extracting info from the internet or from a book. But this yoga may work for me if its very active physically getting into all the positions and stretches.

Eve, you have described the same thing that I am aiming for with moderation. Getting to the point where you dont think about alcohol. I guess I am really trying to achieve abstinence rather than moderation but trying to fool my drinking brain that I am working towards moderation. I dont want to frighten my drinking brain with the thought that it will never get another drink, becaus that would make it go its own dirty tricks bag and fight back hard.

I am thinking that even when I have totally lost interest in drinking, I might even force myself to have a token drink a couple of times a week just to reinforce the moderation aspects.

I am hoping to avoid the massive amount of stress and tension that builds up when I set long term goals with critical milestones. I believe that the longer I would go AF, the more that tension would become unbearable and the fear of the whole edificace crumbling down would certainly be like walking every day on a carpet made out of banana skins.

Far better to innoculate myself from that tension by showing my inner drinker who is boss and reinforcing the mental control muscles by nominating when and how much I drink.

One thing that my wife told me when she worked for the NZ Justice Dept many years ago, was that there are a large number of prison inmates who abscond when they have been model prisoners for years and are in the last months or weeks of their sencences.

Evidently the pressure of knowing that they only have to make it for a few more short weeks or days proves too much for them to bear and they go over the wall. Its wierd because they were able to deal with being incarcerated when they had years of their sentence in front of them but cant handle it when there are only a few days to their release date.

So what worries me about full blown abstinence for me, is that I see people counting the period of AF which means that they will have big milestones looming in front of them. Maybe its just the way my mind works but that would cause me a lot of stress.

I am hoping that controlled moderation will allow me to let some of that pressure off.

Not sure if that all makes sense.

[KundaliniGirl]

Using the Drink Tracker

Ken, sorry I'm just now responding to your post. It's weird because even though I've subscribed to this thread, I didn't get notification that there was a new posting. So, I wouldn't have found it had I not just overtly gone to it.

Anyway..........I totally get what you're saying and it sounds like a lot of the thoughts I've had about modding/abstaining. That's why I decided to mod -- because I felt that putting so much pressure on myself would make me miserable even if I never took another drink. In other words, it's going to have to come naturally for me. Now, I was lucky because after a bad couple of weekends I came here determined to go AF. But after 2.5 mos, sitting at a lovely dinner with my husband, I just really wanted to be able to share a nice bottle of wine and enjoy the evening. So, I think what I've done has been lucky in hindsight. The totally AF period gave me insight into how much better I feel when not drinking too much. Now, it's coming naturally for me not to drink. It's amazing, really. The struggle is gone -- at least as it stands now. And, now that I know what it's like to feel really really really good, I don't want to compromise that ever again. So, I'm naturally choosing not to drink, and I'm not having to white-knuckle it.

But, back to your original point - there is something about putting pressure on ourselves that feels like we're setting ourselves up for failure. I do think, though, that to really moderate successfully one needs a good bit of AF time. I could be wrong, but it seems like people who have already reached a certain point aren't able to mod without that chunk of AF time. Of course, we're all different, so one has to figure that out........I don't feel like I could have done it without the AF time.

Regarding the yoga and how it might work with your personality. First and foremost, let me say that I think you NEED yoga, after reading you describe yourself. Now, there are many different kinds, but it sounds like you need to learn to relax, buddy!! The yoga I do is a combination of meditation, stretching and exercise. You can just keep it in mind for future reference.

KG

[KevFromCanberra]

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Hi KG,

I think you might be right about me needing the yoga to relax.

I think I tended to use alcohol for two things:

1. To still my brain for five minutes (usually ended up being for longer than that ) and give myself permission to just not do anything for awhile. But alcohol is a very blunt instrument to use as a relaxation device because of all the side effects that you can get from it.

2. To bolster my confidence and make me more extraverted in social situations. Without alcohol I am fine reading, watching TV, posting on this forum etc. But in a social situation like today where I attended a leaving dinner at a Chinese restaurant and drank diet coke, I was quite tentative and clumsy in social banter and chit chat. But when I have a few drinks on board I am seen as a very witty chap, great company etc. Again this is fine up to a point, but it is a blunt instrument that can backfire, and on so many occasions too much alcohol has been consumed and then I have made quite a spectacle of myself.

So with this new moderation that I am doing, the social enhancement I am OK with. I survived the social event today, and there were quite a few other people there from work also only drinking soft drink. So its gradually becoming more acceptable that you dont have to have alcoholic drinks at these events. And so what if I was a bit clumsy and shy in the social conversational aspect? I still had my say in a few conversations even if I was a bit more hesitant and stilted than if I was sinking a few lagers.

So that leaves the relaxation. K.G. I think you have hit the nail on the head. I am trying to fill up every waking moment with reading, surfing the internet, watching TV, listening to music, bringing home papers from work to read etc. I need to RELAX. I need to spend some time just doing nothing and chill out. It sounds like this yoga may be the answer to acheiving this state. But I can feel my mind rebelling at the very thought of lying on the floor stretching and meditating with no book, TV, music or internet feeding me a stream of information. I will give it a go though!

Also, in looking back over this post, I think that something has dawned on me that I was not fully aware of before.

It seems that when I drink, I do it for a purpose. I actively use alcohol as a tool. A tool to allow me to relax and a tool to make me more confident and socially adept. The problem has been that on so many occasions, once I had a certain amount of alcohol the original intention of relaxing or socialising goes out the window and the objective changes to just sinking as much alcohol as possible for as long as possible and getting drunk.

I have never set out with the intention to drink alchol for the purpose of becoming intoxicated. I actually hate being drunk, because I like to be in control and being drunk is being out of control.

The reason I state this here is in case any people with more serious drinking issues who should probably be 100% abstainers read this thread. If someone is using alcohol like a drug, just taking it as a chemical to achieve pleasure, then that is very different to the way I have used it. So noone should just assume from reading anything that I post on this forum that because I am doing OK moderating, they can switch from Abstaining to Moderating. They need to investigate their own motivations for drinking, not use me as an excuse to start drinking again.

In fact, even I am still open minded on this and may yet decide that moderating is not worth the effort and go onto full abstinence. The judges are still out on this final decision.

Cheers,
Kev

[KundaliniGirl]

Using the Drink Tracker

Kev,

It seems like you have a very realistic view of your reasons/needs for alcohol. And, like you say, everyone needs to assess their individual needs and reasons for drinking and not just think they can moderate because others can. I think the social lubricant aspect of alcohol is huge for most people. It's just so much easier to be conversant when one has a bit of al. It's training ourselves not to exceed 2-3 drinks that is key. That's where I'm at too - just using alcohol in a very sane and enjoyable way such that it causes absolutely no down side for me. If I drink a couple of drinks 1-2 times max per week, then I've mitigated any negative consequences that alcohol typically causes for me. I won't have disturbed sleep if I stop at two, no hangover, will have the upside of being relaxed (but not drunk) in a social setting, will not trigger the need to get on the everyday drinking roller coaster, etc.

And, just a few more thoughts on the yoga. If you decide to go for it, here is what I would suggest since you can't be sure you'll like it until you try it. Maya Fiennes has three boxed sets of CDs, all of which I bought and use. However, those CDs have to come from her website. They're not available in the U.S. I think you're in Canada? so it might be easier for you to get them. However, I would start with her Detox and Destress tape to see if you like her and the specific type of yoga she teaches (Kundalini). If you like her, you can buy additional CDs. I recommend the entire 3-box set collection because she covers all seven chakras (different areas of the spine) throughout the collection. But, the one CD should give you a good feel for if you want to buy more. I bought my first CD from Acacia:

Kundalini Yoga to Detox and Destress - Acacia

and the 3-box set from her website:

Kundalini yoga from Maya Fiennes of MayaSpace

The yoga is a whole new world for me. I always had to do hard-core jogging, etc. but am finding this more whole body and geared to helping stay flexible. It's an ancient form of movement that I'm really getting into. But, not for everyone especially depending on where one is at in their life!

Anyway, just can't help but want to share something that's been a big positive in my life. I'm even getting into the meditation part of it. Just takes a shift in thinking. I have my husband doing it, and he's getting into it too (and he's not the type you would think would - very type A like you sound).

xx,
KG:l

[Eve11]

Using the Drink Tracker

KevFromCanberra;1040226 wrote: But when I have a few drinks on board I am seen as a very witty chap, great company etc. Again this is fine up to a point, but it is a blunt instrument that can backfire, and on so many occasions too much alcohol has been consumed and then I have made quite a spectacle of myself.

Hi Kev,
I have never felt the need to drink to be more comfortable with talking to people. I do know folks who don't have a comfort level at a party until they have a drink in them. So, I can actually go to a party and start off non-al and then have my drink or two towards the end. For me, that is how I kind of have to do it as I love the taste and I like the buzz and I don't like it either when it backfires if I've had too much and rather than re-capturing the buzz I have slightly embarrassed myself. Although I have been moderating fairly successfully the past few years I have still had those episodes here and there of having one too many for my liking so I hope to be more accountable and am pleased we're pulling a group together who want to work together to maintain their accountability.

Like you, I have a fear of people who shouldn't attempt moderating thinking it sounds easy or glamorous. It is a lot of hard work but worth it to me to be able to enjoy a fine glass of wine with hubby at a special dinner or toast the New Year with a glass of champagne.
But because I keep re-introducing alcohol into my system, I continue to crave it and look forward to the times I choose to drink. Those who go completely AF do get beyond that craving stage pretty much. This is a good place for those who realize they have a problem to come here and see if moderation can work in their lives. Unfortunately our society doesn't have too many support groups for moderators like there are for those who go AF. Plus the moderators here don't tend to support each other as well as the AFers at MWO because many find they can't moderate and they trail off and/or disappear. Some do better staying away and not thinking about drinking but then they aren't in a position to support those who are attempting moderation and need the support from peers. So, am glad you're here as well as some of our newer folks and I always am excited to see an old modder return and put in their 2 cents worth.

Happy moderating!
:l
Eve11

[KundaliniGirl]

Using the Drink Tracker

Eve, I also think that when people are modding successfully they might not feel the need for a lot of support and therefore don't post. When you're going AF you need lots of interaction and brainstorming.

I really enjoy coming here, though, and am glad you, Ken, Believe, RR, Trixi, Gidget and a few others still post. I like having the comaraderie of people who understand the problems associated with alcohol. Even though I'm doing well right now and sticking with my drinking limits/goals, I like hearing from others and helping if possible.

KG

[Eve11]

Using the Drink Tracker

KundaliniGirl;1040669 wrote: I also think that when people are modding successfully they might not feel the need for a lot of support and therefore don't post. When you're going AF you need lots of interaction and brainstorming.

I may be one who disagrees with a moderators thinking that they're doing well and don't need the support. I personally think anyone with a drinking problem needs ongoing support to remind themselves to be accountable. True moderators that can be successful are not chronic alcoholics. They don't "live to drink" but find themselves here because they tend to go over recommended limits for health safety. Per Moderation Management goals a woman should have no more than 9 drinks per week and for men no more than 14drinks. Just as an AFer is recommended to get ongoing support their whole lives, I personally think folks with less severe drinking problems but feel they have a problem need ongoing support as well. This drinking is a slippery slope and I'm sure many if not most modders who quit coming here end up drinking over their desired limits without the support and accountability we get here. Just my opinion but I have found that to be true for myself when I don't post and don't do the drinktracker.

:l
Eve11

[KundaliniGirl]

Using the Drink Tracker

Very good point!

[Gidget]

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Kev From Canberra QuoteI have never set out with the intention to drink alchol for the purpose of becoming intoxicated. I actually hate being drunk, because I like to be in control and being drunk is being out of control.

The reason I state this here is in case any people with more serious drinking issues who should probably be 100% abstainers read this thread. If someone is using alcohol like a drug, just taking it as a chemical to achieve pleasure, then that is very different to the way I have used it.

Hiya Kev,
Wow, I have never seen it in this light before. I was the same, I never drank to get drunk, it just inevitably occurred. I drank for confidence around men and to feel I belonged and was normal. Worthy perhaps.

I think you should give yoga a go too, it is the single most relaxing thing I feel that slows down my brain ( including meditation ) and gives me a sense of calm. There are many different forms of yoga so shop around if the first does not appeal. If you have time a good way to get into it and integrate it into your life is to visit an ashram for a week.

I used to live in Canberra...Many many moons ago, I went to Hawker primary and lived in Page. Since leaving I would return each year for the National Folk festival at Natex too. Have not been for awhile as I am living in the UK at the moment.

I hope your moderating is going to plan.
I am about to moderate after 6 months AF.
I am actually envious that you can fall asleep in a movie and at a hypnotherapists!
I am seeing an NLP trainer and Hypnotherapist this week and fear I simply will not be able to relax enough for the benefits!
Cheers, Fellow Aussie ( Melbournite )