June Modders

[FarfallaP]

June Modders

Hi LG. I tried Topamax several years ago, and it did not work for me. The side effects (lost my sense of taste) were too much, and it did not seem to affect my desire to drink. My downfall was drinking at home, every evening, which I have now stopped. Completely. It was really hard. My husband helped, by not drinking, either. I used all the MWO supps, the cds, and some of Byron Katie's ideas in "The Work," to try to re-frame my thinking. Plus SAMe, which DOES lift my mood a bit. Aside from my damaged thinking, my biggest downfall is hunger. I now have an apple at 4 pm and we eat dinner by 5 pm. Then, as I mentioned in another post, I permit myself to "veg out" entirely, which was what drinking gave me "permission" to do at 5 pm. When we go out, I DO have wine, several glasses if appropriate...no more martinis, EVER! My big wakeup call was my liver ultrasound, which seems to now be fine, even with my moderate drinking. I guess I am pretty conventional...hangovers & life=of=the=party drinking was not my style. In a perfect world, I'd be happiest if even my "social drinking" went away, as it IS an unnecessary beverage, imo, plus even this "moderation" keeps my brain tied to the "reward" "celebration" mindset which is, again, imo, mostly a cultural construct. Right now I am eagerly awaiting the arrival of the Dodes book on "Breaking Addiction"...maybe THAT will shed more light on the issue!

[Trixiebelle]

June Modders

Morning all (well it is here anyway, lol)

DG, those triggers and the rewards are the worst - have you read 'Kick the Drink Easily' by Jason Vale, I'm part way through, so far I agree with everything he has said. I found it really startling when I read, I bet you're hiding this cover so no-one can see....I was!!!!:H Sad really. Some don't agree with his opinions though.

But anyway, I'm finding it a good read, could help you too. I got it online from book depository, its free delivery worldwide., if you dont want to buy it locally.

Library Girl, well done, you've done a marvellous job - sounds like you made real change there.

FarfallaP, everything works differently for us all, its disappointing when the Topa works well for some (and from the first week) and does nothing for the next. We just have to keep searching for our own way out. I believe that the disease is a mental one - it most definitely is with me anyway, its a reward for me and I get cranky and feel like I'm missing out when I cannot have any - like a little kid without sweets.

We will all get there, because we are all here helping each other and working for the same goal - I feel sure about that :l

[LibraryGirl]

June Modders

It sounds like your goal is to become AF, but simply can't so you moderate? I don't want to try moderation only to feel chained to AL again. Is it inevitable? I was hoping to actually just drink sometimes because I wanted to, not because I felt I had to, and definitely don't want to go down that rabbit hole of daily drinking/hangovers again. Everyone who is AF tells me this is kind of like refusing to believe Santa Claus is not real, lol. That once "you're pickled you can never be a cucumber again."

Your thoughts?

[FarfallaP]

June Modders

Trixie, thanks for your comments abt. Topamax...I wish it had worked for me!

LG, I also wish that drinking alcohol were not an "issue" for me...but I guess it is, since I want to keep the "option to drink" open in my life. I don't want to keep an "option to smoke a cigarette" open!!

Sometimes I kid myself that it is our "social life" which keeps me in the drinking mode, but the fact of the matter is that there are ALWAYS people at parties & on cruises etc. who quite happily stick to non-alcoholic beverages...so it still comes back my own attitude...good luck with your decision...FF

[FarfallaP]

June Modders

Also, I suspect that the ability to moderate one's AL use may be related to a person's "on/off" switch. Mine did not work at all, after many years, when I drank at home, in my comfort zone. I would just keep on drinking, from 5 pm on, until bedtime, leaving wine glasses strewn everywhere, etc. etc, which lead to my fatty liver. However, it DOES work quite well in social situations, restaurants, cocktail parties, etc., where (I guess) social convention keeps me in line - plus food always arrives, too. And, now I am highly motivated to make sure that all future liver ultrasounds keep returning with Normal Liver Ultrasound written at the bottom.

[drinkingal]

June Modders

Trixiebelle;1342028 wrote: Morning all (well it is here anyway, lol)

DG, those triggers and the rewards are the worst - have you read 'Kick the Drink Easily' by Jason Vale, I'm part way through, so far I agree with everything he has said. I found it really startling when I read, I bet you're hiding this cover so no-one can see....I was!!!!:H Sad really. Some don't agree with his opinions though.

But anyway, I'm finding it a good read, could help you too. I got it online from book depository, its free delivery worldwide., if you dont want to buy it locally.

l

trix these triggers are damn annoying aren't they? It's like I've programmed my brain to associate alcohol with certain things. I think I've lost some of my triggers but some are just so stubborn. Thanks for the book recommendation, I'll look into it, although I'm reading another book on harm reduction at the moment but I havent picked it up in ages and I don't think I've got to the good meaty part of the book yet so I can't say if it's helpful or not yet, but I really should be doing some more reading

[Stewarts]

June Modders

LibraryGirl, there are some people on here that use meds, I'm sure they'll chime in soon. I actually have been thinking about it myself. I've been pretty good about modding until lately, women are a trigger for me. What I mean women that drink, I don't drink to pick up girls. I had a slip up with an old fling the other week and I've now have been dating someone regularily who was kind of on vacation and how a way of keeping me out....anyway, after tonight I think I'm on track.

As for your limit, you'll know better than anyone else, but, for what its worth, yes, that does sound like a decent plan, I try to limit to two nights a week and 4 drinks.

Best...

[Trixiebelle]

June Modders

Lol, Library Girl, I have to believe I can be a cucumber again. :H Funny analogy, a real goodie.

FarfallaP, I keep telling myself the same thing about the social life too, but t's just AL doing its trickery. I am totally focussed on getting well now and will not let anyone or anything get in my way. I don't care how long it takes (though tomorrow would be great ) I know I will get there, because my attitude is changing - and that's the key, I believe we absolutely must change our attitude to Alcohol so it does not control us.

In the book I'm reading at the moment - he says 'why take a drug to give up another drug' that really struck me. I have tapered off the Topa as I want to make sure my thyroid is ok before I do anything drastic - but I am not totally sure I will resume Topa at all, although I do like the idea of losing some weight (my vanity emerging) I'll see how my attitude is after I finish my book, then make my decisions.

Stewarts, good to see you back

[drinkingal]

June Modders

Interesting trix, because i was just reading another thread about someone taking topa and the side effects sounded horrible! I do believe for a lot of us this is not an addiction so much, but more a psychological issue, we create drinking habits and behaviors, we tell ourselves certain things to enable ourselves instead of telling ourselves something different etc. One thing I've found is that the heavier you drink, the bigger the psychological/mind altering reward, the bigger the connection to al, the more crazy the hangovers and desire for al is, so just altering the amount you drink has a big impact on how it affects your brain and relationship with it so that it's not so intense and really just more ambivalent/casual.

I know for some people it probably is a physical addiction, but I just don't believe that's the truth for the majority of heavy drinkers. I think we teach our brains to respond to certain things, and to believe certain things (myths) about our drinking and until we challenge and question those beliefs and behaviours we don't change anything. It's easy to say "I'm an alkie and I have no control because I don't understand why I do this" but our brains just do what we teach them to do and I feel we also have the capacity to reteach them something different. You know at one point doing one af day was a nightmare for me, and I just did 4 af days and it was nothing like that one day in the past, because I don't tell myself those same things and I know I don't feel that same powerlessness that I used to and it makes all the difference in how I perceive my drinking and what role I play in giving it control over me

[LibraryGirl]

June Modders

Good job on four days af, dg. That's great. I have to say that the longer I have been af, the more I am starting to believe that this is not necessarily a black and white situation. At first when you quit AL because of the negative impact on your life/body, it's easy to jump on the af bandwagon and think ALL AL is bad. Anyone who drinks is risking their lives and is on a downward spiral to ruin! It's kind of like being a born again Christian, lol...and I think MWO perpetuates this type of thinking to some degree.

I still haven't had any AL since my last drink in May, but I am now thinking that I may not be AF completely. It's just something I'm considering and I really don't have any immediate desire to drink. If and when it does happen, I'd like to think that I can control my intake. If for some (as yet unknown) reason I do overindulge, I may have to reconsider my choices.

Just rambling a little this morning. Thanks for indulging me.

P.S. I do think it takes more discipline and work to add AL back into your life in a responsible manner. AF in the long run is probably much easier.

[drinkingal]

June Modders

LibraryGirl;1342927 wrote: Good job on four days af, dg. That's great. I have to say that the longer I have been af, the more I am starting to believe that this is not necessarily a black and white situation. At first when you quit AL because of the negative impact on your life/body, it's easy to jump on the af bandwagon and think ALL AL is bad. Anyone who drinks is risking their lives and is on a downward spiral to ruin! It's kind of like being a born again Christian, lol...and I think MWO perpetuates this type of thinking to some degree.
I do agree with a lot of what you said and modding/harm reduction (I don't really like calling myself a modder because I fit more with harm reduction) whatever you want to call it doesn't sit well with some people because it's not complete abstinence and we are told that is the only way. Don't get me wrong, I think if someone can't hold down a job, their marriage is breaking down, they've become abusive, ending up in jail or picking up a drink in the morning to get through the day, I absolutely feel that it's time to take al off the table. But I think that is the chaotic type scenarios due to drinking where it's really just time to say, I'm done because it's ruining my life and struggle on with sobriety.

LibraryGirl;1342927 wrote: I still haven't had any AL since my last drink in May, but I am now thinking that I may not be AF completely. It's just something I'm considering and I really don't have any immediate desire to drink. If and when it does happen, I'd like to think that I can control my intake. If for some (as yet unknown) reason I do overindulge, I may have to reconsider my choices.

lg, just so you know, I would never try to convince you to drink. I really believe we all know deep down what our motivations are, we know how honest we are being with ourselves, or whether we are just looking to enable ourselves to go off the rails. I do think too that it takes more work to mod than to be af as well. I'm hoping eve will chime in because she has gone a considerable time af and then decided to mod which she does very well. As you know I haven't chalked up any real af time before modding.

It's ok for rambling, I was just rambling myself but you know sometimes I swear I feel like pavlov's dog, ding ding I'm doing some activity that I immediately associate with drinking and so on. It's like I've totally conditioned myself to be this way over so many years and it just blows my mind because I see it so clearly and I don't even see these things as cravings any more, just mental associations that mean nothing and some of them I've already lost because I just dismiss them for what they are, others are going to take more time obviously to break the associations.

[Trixiebelle]

June Modders

drinkingal;1343032 wrote:
It's like I've totally conditioned myself to be this way over so many years and it just blows my mind because I see it so clearly and I don't even see these things as cravings any more, just mental associations that mean nothing and some of them I've already lost because I just dismiss them for what they are, others are going to take more time obviously to break the associations.

Absolutely DG, everyone is different, as you said for you it's more a psychological battle, and I'm in that boat too, but I have only just realised this in the past few months, so I've jumped a hurdle, I have a different way to attack this monster, which is really only an illusion (for me anyway).

Once you look at things differently, whatever had control over you, loses that power. Its the same with any addiction. I used to smoke and I remember the fear if I thought I'd run out of fags late at night when the shops were shut (or I'd had too much to drink to drive) It's the same with any drug imho.

Congrats to both of you for your AF days - that's a real achievement. :goodjob:

[ToMyHealth]

June Modders

Hello ~ June has not been the greatest month for me. I realize having company who are on vacation gives me the excuse while entertaining to drink every night. Once that habit gets re-established, it's hard to break. Finally did such tonite, can't remember the last Friday night that I did NOT drink. Can't sleep but that's par for the course - no golf pun intended.

DG - not drinking b4 golf days, well got waylaid somewhat with that line of thinking in that for the week of company did not play regular days, then Tropical Storm Debby hit which didn't affect us too much except for heavy rain & wind but, of course, no golf for another entire week. Went out to dinner Wed nite, had 2 gl of wine, played fine golf next day. Last night we had too much, played golf unexpectedly today and the hangover affected it a lot. Congrats on your 4 days. I did 4 straight days in May and remember how fantastic I felt. So do it again, dummy, she says to self.

LG - have followed your posts elsewhere, you have done so very well! I, for one, admire your 4 month sobriety. Don't you honestly feel & look a lot better? Wish you well in whatever decision you make. Modding or harm reduction takes work - no question. The born again analogy is a good one. I do not take supps. Tried Kadzu; it made me dizzy. I notice no difference with L-Glut but have not used it on regular basis.

Farfalla -WTG on not drinking daily. Breaking that habit is huge. Can't remember if it was you who said you give yourself permission to veg out at night just like one did when starting to drink at 5p. I need to remember that and not watch so much tv or Netflix during day, being more active and saving that 'relaxing' activity until evening and then I'll want to remember what the heck I watched.

Trix - like your way of thinking - look at it differently and it loses its power. I just used the 'power' thing on my son in regard to his spirituality and his new relationship. Need to heed my own advice - and yours. Thanks.

TMH

[Trixiebelle]

June Modders

Hi TMH,

Good to hear that you are getting back into gear with you AF days, at least once the vacation's done, you can get your act together and get back on the wagon. Usually those sorts of habits will last months, before you get back to what you what to be doing.

:goodjob:

Re the sleeping, have you tried meditation (Holosync or even the MWO CD's) it always helps me off to sleep.

We went to the "neighbours" place again last night, I took Gin with me, and was very good, I didn't over drink at all, which I normally do on a regular basis with this mob. So I'm pretty pleased with myself and feel much better for it today. Plus she didn't give me any grief about drinking more and more - I was so relieved about that.

Back to reading my book, which is pretty interesting I have to say.

Almost time to start the "July Modders thread"