Can you moderate?

[paula]

Can you moderate?

Totally agree with you DG, the other thread is being ignored, just trying to keep it going.

[kuya]

Can you moderate?

paula;1390099 wrote: Totally agree with you DG, the other thread is being ignored, just trying to keep it going.

Paula, the other thread was closed because a certain member started abusing Library Girl about being a failed moderator.

[paula]

Can you moderate?

In answer to the question, can you moderate, personally, no. I have tried so often and always failed. Inmo, it is like asking a heroin addict to use occasioanlly. I truly believe if you can moderate you do not suffer from an addiction. Why is it not possible for people to question opinions on these boards without being criticised for doing so ? e.g you should not post on here if you are abstinant. The entire site is about alcohol problems, not a wine tasting club. I have tried to convince myself over the years that I don't have a problem, and until I eventually did, and abstained my life was in turmoil. If you have problems controlling your consumption, can you ever learn to moderate, ? maybe for a time, like I did, but the addiction never goes away until we stop feeding it.

[drinkingal]

Can you moderate?

paula I wasn't saying abbers shouldn't post here, but there are a few who seem to just come here to criticize modding and this is the only board where we can openly support and talk about it. I guess it would be like going to the long term abstainers board and discussing how abbing doesn't work and everyone should wake up and mod instead, I don't think that would be right either no matter how much someone believed it to be true. I think all we want is to be able to use the modder board to support each other in our goals without being told what we can and can't discuss here, or without feeling like we can be honest about our struggles. I think we also need to realize that people at the boards are in different stages of their alcohol use, and some people come here to get their drinking under control well before they hit any sort of crisis or bottom. Unfortunately eve's post was meant to be useful to the users of the modder board but it's been sidetracked, and the debate has been done many times at the boards but no one ever gets swayed by the other party. I think instead of debating it (and I think people on both sides are maybe getting sick of the same debate over and over), I think we need to learn to let people deal with their alcohol problem in their own way and realize that everyone here isn't in the same place with al.

[paula]

Can you moderate?

I saw the question, can you moderate and answerd for me. I honestly don't see anybody criticizing, it is just passionate debate. I certainly would support anyone's right to question respectfully any belief. If it works for you thats great, but having worked in addiction treatment for many years, I remain sceptical.

[drinkingal]

Can you moderate?

I was still editing my reply when you posted. Paula I can honestly say that modding and harm reduction has helped me a huge amount. Would I be healthier without any alcohol? I'm sure I would, but I don't think it would be a realistic goal for me. I have never hit anything close to bottom so I probably wouldn't have the same motivation to stay completely sober as someone else who can refer back to things like that when they are tempted. I would IMO, either keep relapsing or I would just be a dry drunk. So rather than continuing on until I eventually hit bottom, I decided to work at reigning things back in and my al consumption is only a small portion of what it once was which means I'm healthier, and safer than if I did nothing.

[drinkingal]

Can you moderate?

great post reggie :thumbs:

[DfromCT]

Can you moderate?

paula;1390121 wrote: In answer to the question, can you moderate, personally, no. I have tried so often and always failed. Inmo, it is like asking a heroin addict to use occasioanlly. I truly believe if you can moderate you do not suffer from an addiction. Why is it not possible for people to question opinions on these boards without being criticised for doing so ? e.g you should not post on here if you are abstinant. If you have problems controlling your consumption, can you ever learn to moderate, ? maybe for a time, like I did, but the addiction never goes away until we stop feeding it.

Paula, I don't think anyone on the modders boards thinks that AFers shouldn't post in our area. We get P.O'd when the militant AFers come in and rip us a new one for expressing our thoughts and opinions IN OUR AREA, the mods boards! We don't do that (once we learn where the boundries are) in the AF areas, why is that not reciprocal?

Answering a question like you did is perfectly acceptible. To deem that your answer is the only one, and the right one, for all that tread here is not acceptible. Personally, I'm on a journey to prove to myself that the addiction can be treated. It requires a good deal of time AF, and a whole lot of help, support, and a program. The program I've created included an Rx for Naltrexone (which I've been off for over a month) and using hypnotherapy and initially a whole lot of vitamins and herbal supplements. So your answer, while it may work for you, doesn't work for me. That fact infuriates the militant AFers. It's their way or the highway.

I know from an overnight post that Eve has received a few PMs from lurkers that are afraid to post b/c they don't want to get caught up in the AF vs. Mod fray. I received FOUR such PM's yesterday evening. Those are the people we're "recruiting". We're trying to help those that are looking for an alternative to the all-or-nothing approach of the militant AFers that dominate parts of this board, particularly the NN, which is a logical place for newbies to go. I was run out of there in early July when I was a week or so AF b/c I had the "nerve" to post about thoughts of having a drink with my wife after I completed 30 days AF. I was lucky enough to find the modders board. Many, I fear do not, and leave here still searching for the help and support they seek.

I also don't feel that Eve owes anyone an apology for starting the thread. As she's so elequently explained, information leads to informed decisions and better outcomes. This site should not tolerate ANYONE stalking and bashing another simply for expressing their views. Modders are simply demanding the same respect in the mod areas of the forum that the militant AFers have demanded in the areas (some of which were created as nuetral ground) they dominate.

For the sake of lurkers that don't want to be involved in the strife created by the vehemently AF against the modders, let's respect each other's "Turf", and live and let live. lease:

[Sunbeam]

Can you moderate?

I think it is great to have this thread here, in the mods section, for those who want to consider this option. It would be ideal to emphasize completing an initial 30 AF period, a great opportunity to sort life out and make a decision about your route. It would also be helpful to point out that people who have been daily heavy drinkers will be unlikely to drink moderately.

[paula]

Can you moderate?

DG, my husband also enjoys problem free drinking, drinking in moderation is known to have health benefits, so I don't think you need worry. I am happy to discuss with you as you are polite and non confrontational. I have re read my post and wonder why I should be considered lurker, and would like to stress that I do not deem my answer the only acceptable one. If you don't want mixed answers and a variety of opinions don't ask the questions.

[Panno]

Can you moderate?

Eve I would just like to thank you for posting your test, I answered them all and my result has given me a lot to think about!! Thank you

[DfromCT]

Can you moderate?

paula;1390152 wrote: DG, my husband also enjoys problem free drinking, drinking in moderation is known to have health benefits, so I don't think you need worry. I am happy to discuss with you as you are polite and non confrontational. I have re read my post and wonder why I should be considered lurker, and would like to stress that I do not deem my answer the only acceptable one. If you don't want mixed answers and a variety of opinions don't ask the questions.

Paula, I think you took everything I said in my previous post as directed specifically at you. It was not. You may have made the same mistake I've often made: read my post quickly and then responded. I also clearly did not call you a lurker, or stalker, sorry if you felt that I was referring to you throughout. I was referring to those that won't give us the same respect in the mods areas that we give the AFers in their boards and the boards they've assumed control of. Heck, I know that I've been a topic of conversation a few times (in a negative way, and accused of things beyond anything I've ever done) in their threads and I've for the most part chosen not to respond.

So we do welcome your input, especially with the clarification you offered above. There's no right or wrong answer universally to the question that the thread poses, only what each of us hopefully discovers works for them. That's the whole point of welcoming those that feel uncomfortable in the AF domain.

[FarfallaP]

Can you moderate?

Options and choices

Sometimes it seems to me that it is easy to react quickly when a topic is really important to u s.

I want to thank Eve for starting this thread, for two reasons.

1. As a former allied health professional, I agree with the person who posted that patients/clients deserve to know all the options which may be available to them. IMO, that was one of the tremendous benefits of Roberta Jewell's program...many options are presented.

2. As an educator, I believe that students deserve to be informed of all the different approaches possible to mastering a new skill, be it snowboarding, meditation or controlling one's intake of food or alcohol...including such methods as total immersion, baby steps, etc.

Eve's posts present options and choices. By the way, "moderation" does have a set of guidelines consistent with good health, which different members kindly post and repost frequently in the moderator forums. Jackie Claire kindly posted those guidelines recently, in a post in response to a question by Tipplerette. While every member here is on an individual journey, at no time is the general consensus an air of "anything goes," as it may sometimes seem to persons who are not routinely following the conversations.

I wonder if part of the concern about this issue is the fear that some MWO members will be led astray by having the moderation option in plain view, as it were. I suspect it is, in reality, one's own mind which latches onto the notion of,..."I can drink moderately now," as an option when maybe it is NOT a good option...but, good grief, watching the ads on Monday night football even make ME think beer is a positive thing, and I have always HATED beer, almost as much as liver!

And, I also feel that when a post contains as much information as this one of Eve's does, it would behoove us all to read it very carefully to make sure we understand EXACTLY what is being said before responding. FF

[FarfallaP]

Can you moderate?

Ultrasounds can be useful!

In the discussion responding to Eve' s original post on this thread, one of the members made this remark: "...while I'm at it, I notice there are some over there that drink IN SPITE of severe health problems and touting about it."
Well, I thought and thought, and the only modder I know of currently posting who has mentioned health issues has been - ME!
Surely no one in MWO would be so Ungenerous as to characterize my situation in such an unkind way...but alas, no one else comes to mind.

Please DO read this carefully, as there has been a grave misrepresentation of the facts, if, indeed, it is my situation which is being referenced.

For many years, just like Roberta Jewell, I had drunk quietly, mostly in my own home, harming no one...just MORE than the average drinker. Then, in October, 2010, a CT scan for an unrelated stomach ailment revealed that I had a fatty liver.

My gastroenterologist's PA looked at my entire record and said that my blood was fine, my liver enzymes were LOW and thus showed that no actual liver damage had occurred, and that I COULD continue drinking provided that I followed the official guidelines put out by the National Council on Alcoholism...Same ones, pretty much, as Jackie Claire and others have posted here on this website.

This does not now, and did not then, qualify as a "severe health problem." Steatosis of the liver is a benign condition which many people have and which can PROGRESS to liver disease but is not in and of itself a "severe health problem".

with the help of Roberta Jewell's book, supplements, the CDs, much reading on this and other websites, I was eventually strong enough..."Baby steps" to discontinue drinking at home and essentially abide by the stated moderation guidelines.

In July 2011 a follow up liver ultrasound showed a completely normal liver. After several months, remembering how I had searched the Internet for true stories of reversing fatty liver, I decided to be generous and post my story somewhere so as to maybe give someone else the hope which I had needed. So, I joined MWO and was welcomed generously.

In may, 2012 another abdominal scan still showed everything to be completely normal. In fact, other than the All One, I take no medications...except maybe for the occasional calms forte, which had no effect whatsoever last night, as my heart was very sore.

I have NEVER at any time "touted about" my problems, nor have I tried to persuade anyone to follow my course of action. I have attempted to give support where I felt I could, and to share of my own experience when it might have helped another person.

Until yesterday, I have felt safe here. I will admit I absolutely NEVER expected this sort of misrepresentation of the facts of my case to appear here on MWO. (A slightly longer version was my first post in the My Story section and in one other post I alluded to this health issue, in the context that these scans are FACTS.)

Which brings me to a final FACT. I had a fatty liver, which a scan showed; I followed the moderation guidelines...by the way, I post regularly on the Drink Tracker, as well as on our M-Th thread, in case anyone would care to check up on me;...and now, I do NOT have a fatty liver.

So here there does exist a situation in which Moderation has been successful, at least insofar as can be verified using current medical technology.

Neither I nor my health nor my contributions to this forum deserve to be treated in such a disrespectful fashion. FF

[scottish lass]

Can you moderate?

Good Morning - it is here in Ca at least.
I did Eve's test yesterday and I appreciate the added information to help me in my decison making.
I have tried to diet many times in the past, and before anyone jumps down my throat, I am well aware of the inherent dangers of drinking vs over eating - the only way I was successful (and as i have been 130lbs for a few years now I believe I am successful) was to leave the depravation diets - and having a little of what I wanted, when I wanted it left me feeling satisfied and able to continue.
I am starting to feel more comfortable that for me (and this is the only person that I will speak for) the all or nothing approach may indeed be what is holding me back from succceeding. Indeed the limits have been well posted - I understand that a bottle of wine over a week (not at one sitting) should be considered my maximum. Indeed my aim will be to have less than that, and I also acknowledge that I will be working to a 30day initial period will set me up right.
So, once again, thank you Eve and to all the others posting information (and not opinions). It was also great that Eve posted references so that we were able to research her sources for ourselves - very interesting reading last night.
Have a good day all...