Can you moderate?

[FarfallaP]

Can you moderate?

Glad you're here

Hi Scottish Lass!

I'm glad you thought to come in this direction, for a while at least...obviously going a little bit at a time is not for everyone, but sneaking up on an adversary HAS occasionally been known to work...

In my experience here, we all seem to start at slightly different places, and our progress is pretty individual too. It REALLY helps me to note and feel my progress, either on the Drink Tracker or in my own journal. Focussing on the positive makes me happy...

and, while intellectually I accept the truth that AL is a toxic substance, on an emotional level I am still living in our contemporary culture and I am not quite ready yet to forgo the champagne at my daughter's wedding.

My big health downfall was my daily drinking at home, which I eventually eliminated entirely.
I do not routinely have much trouble with the on-off switch, but I do find it interesting to note when the old "compulsive" quality starts to creep into my headset.

anyway, that's enough about me...glad you're here to focus on the positive! FF

[FreeFly]

Can you moderate?

Hello FF,

Yet again I feel much sadness that someone is so hurt from what they’ve posted previously with all good intentions, and in the hope that their experience may help someone else. I read with interest many threads and take note and am helped from others’ experiences, wherever they may be on their journeys, yours included FF. I don’t think you need to justify previous posts. I’m sure there are many other lurkers that value your experience as well.

I wholeheartedly agree with Lassie’s earlier post. I value Eve’s original post and I totally resonate with Ladybird’s approach.

I post in the AF threads and I struggle to reach 30 days. I do dip in at times to the Mod section and the long term Abbers section. All help me on my own personal journey. I haven’t given ‘my story’ as I don’t feel it necessary and I tend to keep my real issues to myself, both here and in real life, tis my nature. I do however gain much support and strength from the thread I choose to participate in and tend to post my current feelings in a little way.

I have at times wondered whether I would be better off in the Mod section as I do obviously still struggle and perhaps I wouldn’t feel the shame of ‘slipping’ quite so much. I’m not saying anyone ever comes down on me hard, far from it, they have only been supportive, but it is my own perception of posting, or being afraid to be a perpetual failure, that I question and yes, once or twice have taken time out from here. I stick around now because I know it helps me and I have so many, many more days AF than I ever did before I came here. This is a success for me and continues to grow.

When I see folk coming down hard on others for whatever their beliefs, it makes me hesitant to take part. I don’t actually think there should be separate sites. I just think there could be more respect for each other and a loving hand when typing a response. Certainly I believe one size does definitely NOT fit all, but what I do know is there are words of wisdom to be found in each and every one who takes the time to post on MWO.

In an ideal world I would very much like to jump from thread to thread seeking out support and solace from wherever felt appropriate at the time. I hope those that wobble about staying here, put those thoughts aside and stick around.

[FarfallaP]

Can you moderate?

Hi Free Fly,

thank you so much for your kind and gentle words...feels as though a whisper has folded around my heart! I guess being misunderstood is always pretty painful, too...
Who knows what is best for oneself, let alone another...all our journeys are so individual , in all aspects of our lives.
In the General Discussion parts of this site, I do notice so many people posting about "slips" that I wonder how that makes them feel. It seems to me that the other members are always kind and supportive in these instances, which is wonderful, but I think much of human behavior tends to respond best to positive reinforcement rather than to negative feelings such as sadness that one had let oneself down, for example.
On the other hand, I can empathize with wanting to get it over with, once and for all...no more AL, no more angst,never look back. That doesn't seem to work too well, either.
Enough musing. Thanks for your kind words. Good luck to us both! From one FF to another!

[FreeFly]

Can you moderate?

FF, what a beautiful thing to say, a whisper has folded around my heart! That makes me happy. Seems even a struggler like me can offer a word too! Thank you.

I agree with you re the negative feelings around 'slipping'. Although I do feel a wee bit guilty for not fessing up to my recent slips, I've done it for my own protection (perceived again). I'm learning not to beat myself up and am building on that progress. I think I would just disappear now if I felt I had to own up to them all. I know it helps me to stay here so I do it in my own way. Tis all I can do.

So as you say, good luck to us both from one FF to another :l

[scottish lass]

Can you moderate?

to the FF's - Farfalla - you hit the nail on the head - I want to drink at my daughters weddings too - that is exactly my point and so succinctly put, thank you. Drinking at home was my down fall too.
And as Freefly mentioned, those who are able to share their stories do help so much, and somoen who has teh grace and courage to do so should not need to feel the way that you did. I read so many people posting that their liver numbers are fine, and I know so often that this is not the whole story. Your personal journey is a wake up call and is the reality - by the time the LFT's show the damage it maybe too late. I appreciate your sharing, and the knowledge that if we do indeed practice harm reduction, we may be in time to reduce damage.
FreeFly - indeed if i look back two years and where I am today, I should feel so very pleased. I will now try to concentrate on my 7 (hopefully 8 by end of the day) AF days in October so far and enjoy the feeling that gives me, and not continue to feel remorse for the two days that i have drunk.
OK, back to work, break over!

[Eve11]

Can you moderate?

FarfallaP;1390170 wrote:
I wonder if part of the concern about this issue is the fear that some MWO members will be led astray by having the moderation option in plain view, as it were. I suspect it is, in reality, one's own mind which latches onto the notion of,..."I can drink moderately now," as an option when maybe it is NOT a good option...but, good grief, watching the ads on Monday night football even make ME think beer is a positive thing, and I have always HATED beer, almost as much as liver!

Love what you posted here FF. It is true that I have always been very concerned about leading someone astray with the notion that they can moderate when they can't and shouldn't even be attempting such a thing. However, I decided I can't try to hold everyone's hands for fear that a post of mine in the moderation section will entice someone to drink as my feeling is they shouldn't be checking a moderation site out if their goal is to come here and try to be abstinent and get support for that.

Per an article written by The Institute of Medicine (1990) it was pointed out that approximately 80% of alcoholics don't seek addiction treatment services. Advocates of the12-step model contend that these people are simply "in denial" and need to "hit bottom" before they will seek treatment. Marlatt contends (1993) that it is more likely that many of these people simply do now wish to enter treatment with all or nothing requirements and would be more compliant if offered alternatives. So, even though I stand apart from a lot of people who have studied addiction like I have (have been a nurse at a trauma hospital for 25 years where we treat a lot of addicts and alcoholics) I stand firm in my belief that offering choices is the way to go. Roberta Jewel IMO totally had it right when she wrote her book and recommended nutrition, hypnotherapy and yes...moderation. This moderation site was designed by the person who started this site with offering people a choice, abstinence or moderation... so very sad that some folks think we are so awful with how we believe.

:l
Eve11
Reference:

Institute of Medicine (1990) Broadening the base of treatment for
alcohol problems. Washington DC: National Academy Press.
Marlatt, G.A. Larimer, M.E., Baer, J.S. & Quigley, L.A.(1993). Harm
reduction for alcohol problems: moving beyond the controlled drinking
controversy. Behavior Therapy: 24(4), 461 - 504.

[LibraryGirl]

Can you moderate?

I finally took the test. I scored 13, but some of my answers, including the last one is not a "hard and fast" yes. I said no to stopping after one or two, but I do stop after one or two sometimes with no problem...But other times I want more than that. So, how do you answer? Also, my answers are much different from what they would have been before I came to MWO. Since I have been here and have been mindful of my drinking I had mostly a answers, so it begs the question: Do you really have to already be a nearly successful moderator to become a successful moderator. In my case the answer is most decidedly NO.

Wait, I counted wrong. My score was 11, 10 if I put a for the question I was undecided about (above).

P.S. Also, on some of the questions I had to answer truthfully about passing out and blacking out, which was yes, but it was before February 2012. That's when I joined MWO.

[kuya]

Can you moderate?

LibraryGirl;1390517 wrote: I finally took the test. I scored 13, but some of my answers, including the last one is not a "hard and fast" yes. I said no to stopping after one or two, but I do stop after one or two sometimes with no problem...But other times I want more than that. So, how do you answer? Also, my answers are much different from what they would have been before I came to MWO. Since I have been here and have been mindful of my drinking I had mostly a answers, so it begs the question: Do you really have to already be a nearly successful moderator to become a successful moderator. In my case the answer is most decidedly NO.

Wait, I counted wrong. My score was 11, 10 if I put a for the question I was undecided about (above).

P.S. Also, on some of the questions I had to answer truthfully about passing out and blacking out, which was yes, but it was before February 2012. That's when I joined MWO.

But I scored a 9 but quite patently have a long term heavy drinking problem...... It just didn't consume my life, make me blackout , vomit, stagger, make me hungover. I obviously have a massive tolerance ........ But it is all so confusing.

I never had these problems so I must just be wierd in this respect because I also had no withdrawals when I stopped and no cravings since stopping.

And I do agree with Eve that the possibility of moderation may lead many more to treatment. Especially the young who are currently forced into abstinence programs by the courts or their counsellors.

[Eve11]

Can you moderate?

LG,
We are twins as I scored 13 also. I wanted to respond to the person who stated she was a huge drinker and only scored a 9...sorry, 4 letter name that starts with K but it slips my memory at the moment. Anyway, I wanted to tell her (as I believe she is now abstaining) that the test is to be answered with what you have experienced in the last 12 months. Any abstainer taking the test at this point in time with no alcohol use should score very low. The question is, how high would her score be if she took the test and answered the questions at that heavy point of drinking in her life?

This is one of the more thorough tests I have found and really think it's a good indicator whether one can consider moderating or not. Caution with trying to moderate if you score over 14. As you said LG, it can be a touch confusing as to what number we should really rate ourselves and is subjective in that degree but I still think it's one of the better indicators for success I have found. The Cage test is a joke because every person who has ever been a college drinker would fail and be considered alcoholic. I mean really, what animal house college party drinker would say no to 1, 2, and 3? 3 out of 4 = alcoholic label. Believe me, the test I posted is much more accurate!
1. Have you ever felt you should Cut down on your drinking?
Yes
No

2. Have people annoyed you by criticising your drinking?
Yes
No

3. Have you ever felt bad or guilty about your drinking?
Yes
No

4. Have you ever had a drink first thing in the morning to steady your nerves or get rid of a hangover (eye-opener)?
:l
Eve11

[Eve11]

Can you moderate?

Kuya,
How ironic. We were posting at the same time. Read what I said, but with what you posted above it sounds like you possibly did score it the right way. You are one of the rare ones I guess but a massive tolerance could possibly explain some of it. The body is amazing with what it will do to accommodate taking in all of that poison...just like the heart will create collateral arteries for blockage problems the body does stuff in the liver that would amaze people.

BTW, thanks for your support in the belief that the possibility of moderation may lead many more to treatment. Especially the young who are currently forced into abstinence programs by the courts or their counselors. My example of the CAGE program is just that. Young abusers who would outgrow that college drinking if they had other options. I believe it!
:l
Eve11

[RunningCourage]

Can you moderate?

FreeFly;1390302 wrote: Hello FF,

Yet again I feel much sadness that someone is so hurt from what they?ve posted previously with all good intentions, and in the hope that their experience may help someone else. I read with interest many threads and take note and am helped from others? experiences, wherever they may be on their journeys, yours included FF. I don?t think you need to justify previous posts. I?m sure there are many other lurkers that value your experience as well.

I wholeheartedly agree with Lassie?s earlier post. I value Eve?s original post and I totally resonate with Ladybird?s approach.

I post in the AF threads and I struggle to reach 30 days. I do dip in at times to the Mod section and the long term Abbers section. All help me on my own personal journey. I haven?t given ?my story? as I don?t feel it necessary and I tend to keep my real issues to myself, both here and in real life, tis my nature. I do however gain much support and strength from the thread I choose to participate in and tend to post my current feelings in a little way.

I have at times wondered whether I would be better off in the Mod section as I do obviously still struggle and perhaps I wouldn?t feel the shame of ?slipping? quite so much. I?m not saying anyone ever comes down on me hard, far from it, they have only been supportive, but it is my own perception of posting, or being afraid to be a perpetual failure, that I question and yes, once or twice have taken time out from here. I stick around now because I know it helps me and I have so many, many more days AF than I ever did before I came here. This is a success for me and continues to grow.

When I see folk coming down hard on others for whatever their beliefs, it makes me hesitant to take part. I don?t actually think there should be separate sites. I just think there could be more respect for each other and a loving hand when typing a response. Certainly I believe one size does definitely NOT fit all, but what I do know is there are words of wisdom to be found in each and every one who takes the time to post on MWO.

In an ideal world I would very much like to jump from thread to thread seeking out support and solace from wherever felt appropriate at the time. I hope those that wobble about staying here, put those thoughts aside and stick around.

:yeahthat:

And Farfalla - you are a poet, "a whisper around my heart"... Somebody needs to use that in a song, as a title for a book, or something. Beautiful.

Stay well folks.

RC

[kuya]

Can you moderate?

Eve11;1390546 wrote: Kuya,
How ironic. We were posting at the same time. Read what I said, but with what you posted above it sounds like you possibly did score it the right way. You are one of the rare ones I guess but a massive tolerance could possibly explain some of it. The body is amazing with what it will do to accommodate taking in all of that poison...just like the heart will create collateral arteries for blockage problems the body does stuff in the liver that would amaze people.

BTW, thanks for your support in the belief that the possibility of moderation may lead many more to treatment. Especially the young who are currently forced into abstinence programs by the courts or their counselors. My example of the CAGE program is just that. Young abusers who would outgrow that college drinking if they had other options. I believe it!
:l
Eve11

It's funny as a person who no longer wants ANY alcohol in my life I also don't want young people's lives ruined by draconian legislation. I would love to live in a world where alcohol goes the way of cigarettes, no longer acceptable. I am still a smoker BTW.

Unfortunately while we live in such a stressful world people will want to get high and alcohol IS legal. Perhaps we should be pushing to legalize cannabis as the lessor of all evils.

Just a thought

[Eve11]

Can you moderate?

kuya;1390689 wrote: ... I would love to live in a world where alcohol goes the way of cigarettes, no longer acceptable. I am still a smoker BTW.
Unfortunately while we live in such a stressful world people will want to get high and alcohol IS legal. Perhaps we should be pushing to legalize cannabis as the lessor of all evils.Just a thought

Kuya,
The problem with pot from what I have seen is it makes people lazy, unmotivated, and fat (munchies) but they are more mellow. Don't think I've seen big fights between potheads like what AL can do:H.

I think the perfect world we be people's bodies created enough endorphins so that they all ran around with a natural high. Dr. Oz was showing brain scans last night of a depressed brain and a normal brain (happy person) and the normal brain had a much better blood flow to it. Hubby and I were discussing that's why we believe exercise is so good for people in alleviating depression. Oops, interrupted by the teen needing breakfast...gotta run.
:l
Eve11

[DfromCT]

Can you moderate?

Eve, LG and Kuya,

I took the test yesterday looking at the questions as if it was the last week before I started my abstention/moderation program. Scored a 15, but recognized that it would have been higher had I taken the test in the spring.

The whole notion of excersize as healing treatment really intrigues me. For the most part, I've been not that active since I've been sober (going on 100 days) but have lost almost 20 lbs (but am starting to watch my sweet tooth!!) Yeah, I've walked quite a few rounds of golf carrying my bag, and referree'd a few hockey games, but not nearly as much physical activity as I aspire to. Funny thing is I'm reading a good deal, and of course the twins are keeping me busy. LOL the woman that runs the beer store, who I consider a friend, told me yesterday I look great, and her hubby wondered why I'm not at least buying the O'Doul's Amber that I bought a few times early on (the family also owns the deli in the same building AND I found that I like Arnold Palmer Tea better than O'Douls!)

The hockey season is upon us now, and I'll probably referee three games on Saturdays and 2 on Sundays, and hopefully get a few days of excersize during the week. I know I've been lower energy of late, but have been blaming it on work pressures. I'll let you know if my energy level improves...

D

[RunningCourage]

Can you moderate?

kuya;1390689 wrote: It's funny as a person who no longer wants ANY alcohol in my life I also don't want young people's lives ruined by draconian legislation. I would love to live in a world where alcohol goes the way of cigarettes, no longer acceptable. I am still a smoker BTW.

Unfortunately while we live in such a stressful world people will want to get high and alcohol IS legal. Perhaps we should be pushing to legalize cannabis as the lessor of all evils.

Just a thought

KY, can't help but add a few words from Mr Bill Hicks...

"That's what I hate about the war on drugs. All day long we see those commercials: "Here's your brain, here's your brain on drugs", "Just Say No", "Why do you think they call it dope?" ? And then the next commercial is [singing] "This Bud's for yooouuuu." C'mon, everybody, let's be hypocritical bastards. It's okay to drink your drug. We meant those other drugs. Those untaxed drugs. Those are the ones that are bad for you."