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    Can you moderate?

    Welcome all to our long term moderator site! :welcome:

    Newbies and folks hanging around for a while seem to eventually have the same question which is “can one really moderate successfully?”. I have researched this area ever since I have joined MWO 5 years ago and I would like to share some of the information I have gathered to answer this question. Remember, this is my opinion and you may not agree, but my beliefs work for me in my moderating program which I feel is pretty successful. My hope is that you can find success too, and if not, then I hope that this site has served as a stepping stone for you to have sought help and realized abstaining is the choice you need to make.

    Advocates of the 12 step model believe that all people with drinking problems are "in denial" and need to "hit bottom" before they will align themselves with treatment. Marlatt (1993) contends that it is more likely that many of these people simply don’t wish to enter treatment with an all or nothing approach and would be more compliant if offered alternatives. Pressuring all people with drinking problems to abstain ignores the fact that drinking problems can range from mild to severe (life-threatening). Many people (usually 20 something folks) experience alcohol abuse stages which most outgrow. Yet if they get caught drinking and driving they are labeled alcoholic and the only treatment offered are abstinence based programs.

    Results from a study in the 1970’s suggested that moderation might be a preferable treatment goal for some alcoholics. The study was conducted by Mark and Linda Sobel (1975) and showed that at one year, controlled drinking clients were found to be functioning well for a mean of 71% of all days, as opposed to abstinence group who were functioning well on only 35% of days. At a two-year follow-up, the figures were 85% and 42% respectively.

    The trick (from what I have discovered with years of researching this) is that controlled drinking seems to only work for those people who were never physically dependent on alcohol to begin with. Individuals do best if they score less than 14 on the Alcohol Dependence Scale (ADS). Research also only supports success in moderate drinking if excessive drinking is the main presenting problem. Polysubstance abusers don?t fare as well. Go to this site to take the ADS test to see if moderating rather than abstaining may be a possibility for you. http://www.recoverynowla.com/images/ADS.pdf

    The bottom line is most experts believe that people would do something about their alcohol problem sooner if they were offered a choice between abstinence and a moderate drinking approach. I believe some people come to the mod board knowing in their hearts that abstinence is a better choice for them but they are just not ready to make a permanent commitment yet. When they can experiment and make their own decision when they are emotionally ready, many often can let go of moderation and move towards the AF sites for support for an abstinent lifestyle.

    :l
    Eve11

    References:

    Marlatt, G.A. Larimer, M.E., Baer, J.S. & Quigley, L.A.(1993). Harm reduction for alcohol problems: moving beyond the controlled drinking controversy. Behavior Therapy: 24(4), 461 - 504.

    Sobell, M.B. & Sobell, L.C. (1995). Controlled drinking after 25 years: How important was the great debate? Addiction, 90, 1149-1153. Therapy, 4, 49 - 72.

    A good site for more information regarding this subject:

    The Controlled Drinking Debates: A Review of Four Decades of Acrimony - doctordeluca.com
    "Control your destiny or somebody else will"

    ~Jack Welsh~:h

    God grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know it's me. ~Author unknown, :thumbs:

    #2
    Can you moderate?

    Eve, what is your goal here? If it is to prove that you are right...ok you're right. You are the .009% of people who can moderate. Your posts are inciting uproar, and with stress and division, where do you think people like us go? Yes, right back to the enemy. If you are truly trying to help people, leave them to have sense enough to try things for themselves instead of recruiting people to continue the very problem they are desperately trying to shake. If you think your posts are helping, I beg to differ: They are dividing us. I can debate you all day, I'm not new, but for new people coming on here and being led over to where they are being enabled is irresponsible. If someone offered me a chance to keep drinking don't you think I'd jump at that chance? I think it is the truest form of ENABLING. Of course we all wish we could moderate but we can not and to offer new people this option when they have come here in utter dispair is just irresponsible. Maybe it does work for you, but I've noticed more than a few hangovers and 'over did its' and I keep trying but failing but I'm not beating myself up about its' over there. I don't notice a lot of your drinking habits posted. Even moderators can't agree on what moderation is. You can also call it harm reduction...I call it slow death. As long as we drink, we are pouring poison down our throats. While I'm at it, I notice there are some over there that drink IN SPITE of severe health problems and touting about it. I call this the power of addiction. When nothing else matters but to continue a deadly path of drinking.

    You can call us zealots if you like or hardliners...but I call it freedom from addiction. I do have a disease and thank God there is a cure. I devote considerable time and effort to help people get this monkey off their backs and it infuriates me to NO END seeing irresponsible posts like yours trying to divide us. I can sit here all day and sight study after study to back up my claims, just like you can. The proof is in the results...and the people who can stop drinking....stop killing themselves, their relationships, and everything they've worked for. Do we get it right everytime, Hell no...but we keep trying. We keep trying to quit...we don't keep trying to succeed at drinking.

    I, for one, wish you would stop dividing people and polarizing us and causing us to think we are losing our lifeline here at MWO. Many of us depend on this site for support because we need it to stop this madness.

    Your posts seem to be of one purpose....self serving...so go have a drink on me! Byrdlady
    All you gotta do, is get thru this day. AF 1/20/2011
    Tool Box
    Newbie's Nest

    Comment


      #3
      Can you moderate?

      This is the Moderating section of MWO, Byrdie. We have a right to post about our lifestyle as well. The moderating section exists on this site for a reason, like it or not, no offense.


      "I like people too much or not at all."
      Sylvia Plath

      Comment


        #4
        Can you moderate?

        None taken, LG....I am aware. But it does show up under new posts, and new people often just see that part without regards to the 'section' it's in. B
        All you gotta do, is get thru this day. AF 1/20/2011
        Tool Box
        Newbie's Nest

        Comment


          #5
          Can you moderate?

          I second everything Byrdie said. You can call me a Nazi or just a BITCH...I'm fine with that. What I'm NOT fine with is several select members of the Mods board recruiting new members. WHAT THE HELL do you have against people going completely AF? Is it because you can't seem to do it, so misery loves company?

          Stop knocking those of us that are successful. It's becoming clear that it's nothing more than jealousy, plain and simple. You CAN have what we have, but you need to relax your grip on the bottle first. Until then, please, please, please stop telling people that are crying out for help that it is OK to keep drinking. Seriously, what is wrong with you??

          I'm done being nice on this topic. Since you're all so proud of your moderation skills, how about breaking it down for us....HOW many days a week do you drink, how many hangovers do you have, and what is considered ok? 4 drunk nights a week as opposed to 7? Seriously, let us know. Maybe you can school us old timers on the proper way to binge in a controlled manner.

          FFS, stop already.
          :heart:I love my daughter more than alcohol:heart:

          Believe in yourself. You are stronger than you think.

          Comment


            #6
            Can you moderate?

            This isn't about recruiting new members. It's all about giving those that haven't yet decided whether lifetime abstention is for them. People like me, who came here with an intention of gaining control of our drinking without any intention of abstaining for life are often pressured and/or run off by some posters in the Newbies Nest, (yes, you in particular K9) that make it an all or nothing proposition. You ran me out of the NN, and we've found quite a few folks that found their way to the Moderate threads that express the same pressures. Some folks will cross back to the AF, while others will remain in the moderate camp.

            I'm not arguing with you nor denying what works for you. But others should feel free to post freely and openly about moderating. That's why we don't do so in the abstinence areas or even the areas the militant AF's like you have taken over. It's a natural for a newbie to head to the newbie nest. To give them an alternative, without making any comment on your path, is to allow them to stay here at My Way OUt getting help dealing with whether or not they want to drink. This is not K9's WAY OUT OR THE HIGHWAY, it's called MY WAY OUT. Each of us has our own path. IT IS A CHOICE.

            If you demand that we respect the AF nature of your parts of the forums, we demand that you do the same for the moderate portions. Is that too much to ask?
            Well the 1st are the hardest days don't you worry anymore.
            When life looks like easy street there is danger at your door.

            Comment


              #7
              Can you moderate?

              DfromCT;1389854 wrote: This isn't about recruiting new members. It's all about giving those that haven't yet decided whether lifetime abstention is for them. People like me, who came here with an intention of gaining control of our drinking without any intention of abstaining for life are often pressured and/or run off by some posters in the Newbies Nest, (yes, you in particular K9) that make it an all or nothing proposition. You ran me out of the NN, and we've found quite a few folks that found their way to the Moderate threads that express the same pressures. Some folks will cross back to the AF, while others will remain in the moderate camp.

              I'm not arguing with you nor denying what works for you. But others should feel free to post freely and openly about moderating. That's why we don't do so in the abstinence areas or even the areas the militant AF's like you have taken over. It's a natural for a newbie to head to the newbie nest. To give them an alternative, without making any comment on your path, is to allow them to stay here at My Way OUt getting help dealing with whether or not they want to drink. This is not K9's WAY OUT OR THE HIGHWAY, it's called MY WAY OUT. Each of us has our own path. IT IS A CHOICE.

              If you demand that we respect the AF nature of your parts of the forums, we demand that you do the same for the moderate portions. Is that too much to ask?
              You seem really obsessed with me DfromCT. I've never sent you a PM or even replied to the MANY you've sent me. I'm sorry you feel intimidated by little old me!
              :heart:I love my daughter more than alcohol:heart:

              Believe in yourself. You are stronger than you think.

              Comment


                #8
                Can you moderate?

                :H
                Well the 1st are the hardest days don't you worry anymore.
                When life looks like easy street there is danger at your door.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Can you moderate?

                  I don't see anything wrong with peeps choosing to Mod and creating a safe space for those who wish to join them. In fact I think it's a good thing. I also don't see anything wrong in abstaining and creating a safe space for those who wish to join them.

                  I think people will find their niche in their own time, wherever that may be. Just a thought, but perhaps those two avenues could be respected and then people could make up their own minds. The site seems to be weighted in favour of AFers so why don't we give the Modders some respect in the path they choose to take. We are all different and cannot possibly judge what is right for another.

                  I think whichever path is chosen there is great support to be found on this site.
                  You were born with wings, why prefer to crawl through life? Rumi

                  :lilangel:

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Can you moderate?

                    Thank you for the information here. Personally, I've been reading these boards for several months and although I acknowledge I do abuse alcohol at times I certainly don't consider myself an alcoholic. I haven't experienced the awful problems many here have. For them maybe total abstinence is the only route but for myself, I would like to think there is another option. I don't drink daily, I haven't stacked up problems but I know, in difficult periods of life, alcohol has been a crutch.

                    I understand this website is for everyone who stumbles upon it for whatever reason. I've learnt a lot from reading on here but I have to say there is a somewhat intimidating air to it - so much that I don't feel inclined to participate.

                    Eve's post makes sense, obviously not to one sector but certainly to me. Thank you.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Can you moderate?

                      AMEN, FreeFly.

                      I think if you read my post above, I'm saying the same thing! I don't know of anyone that intentionally posts about moderating in the AF area, or the area the AFers have "taken over." We're asking for the same respect. There's no attempt to recruit, just an attempt to give those new to the site (like me!) that want to hang with the modders a place to do so. Some are threatened by that, and attack us for doing so.
                      Well the 1st are the hardest days don't you worry anymore.
                      When life looks like easy street there is danger at your door.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Can you moderate?

                        DfromCT;1389879 wrote: I don't know of anyone that intentionally posts about moderating in the AF area.
                        Agreed, can't say I've seen that either.
                        You were born with wings, why prefer to crawl through life? Rumi

                        :lilangel:

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Can you moderate?

                          Thank you for the question, Eve, I have thought about it a lot over the past three years. The short answer is "yes", but of course there is a bit more to it. I initially liked the "idea" of being an alcohol free person but I also liked the idea of being a vegetarian, it felt more like an experiment at first. I was also afraid that I couldn't do it. I think it was within the range of "normal" for me to be unsure both in terms of goals and execution. When I came here I was a nightly heavy drinker, and with the help of the CDs, supplements, and support from the MWO community I was able to fairly quickly get a week, then two, then my first month alcohol free, then three months, five months, etc. I had to get away from alcohol for quite a while to see how it actually affected me when I did drink. I had to get alcohol out of my house in the big sense, my expectations, and see who I was in body, mind, and spirit without it. There hasn't been a line that I crossed from drinking to abstinence, my drinks just got fewer and fewer and farther and farther apart. I can moderate but I find quickly that I simply feel better without alcohol. No drama, I did the same thing thirty years ago with cigarettes which I guess is unusual, so it is probably part of my constitution. Love and peace, Ladybird.
                          may we be well

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Can you moderate?

                            Well said Ladybird.


                            "I like people too much or not at all."
                            Sylvia Plath

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Can you moderate?

                              Ladybird, that is a lovely, kind and peaceful post. I like it. I can resonate in that drinks are getting further and further apart and a longer time in between (I'm not at abstinence yet) but mindset is changing. I like the gentle approach and I'm hoping that one day it won't a problem anymore, because the positive has outweighed the negative and life has just changed. Your words convey a beautiful spirit. Thank you!
                              You were born with wings, why prefer to crawl through life? Rumi

                              :lilangel:

                              Comment

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