July Mod Squad

[Eve11]

July Mod Squad

DancingGirl;1680225 wrote: Good morning!

I'm still nicely in moderation land with an AF day yesterday and either AF or one glass at dinner planned today. The OR is if my husband decides to have an AF day, I will too.

Just a question for all or any of you - from a thread on one of the other boards:

Could you just have one bite of a delicious dessert and then leave the rest for everyone else to eat? Could you enjoy that one bite and not crave more?

It is a good question about moderation in general.

This reminds me of a true story many years ago when a lovely (extremely overweight) friend and I were leaving a restaurant. Someone had left an uneaten dessert (with perhaps only a bite taken) and the other person had left a half glass of wine. Simultaneously she and I looked at each other and said..."how could they leave that...
"uneaten dessert" (her) "almost full glass of wine" (me). So true, so true, and this is why moderation is difficult and does not work for most people.

:l
Eve11

[DancingGirl]

July Mod Squad

Eve11;1685919 wrote: This reminds me of a true story many years ago when a lovely (extremely overweight) friend and I were leaving a restaurant. Someone had left an uneaten dessert (with perhaps only a bite taken) and the other person had left a half glass of wine. Simultaneously she and I looked at each other and said..."how could they leave that...
"uneaten dessert" (her) "almost full glass of wine" (me). So true, so true, and this is why moderation is difficult and does not work for most people.

:l
Eve11

Hi Eve11 !!

Halfway through your story, I thought - I hope the ending is not that one person finished the wine and the other the dessert! :H

But more seriously, seeing friends and family drink very moderately - leaving a half glass of wine or pouring it out because it was time to leave, or they just realized that they'd had enough - that made me think more seriously about my drinking.

[nonamegirl]

July Mod Squad

Happy Monday, all!
So, we must be in the summer doldrums. Where is everyone? Emmy? Lasha?

We had a brief respite from the heat on Saturday, and now it is ramping up again. But honestly, can't complain too much as long as the forest fires stay away. Poor California!

I will be away from my computer for several days again, so I wish everyone a happy week and a good end to July. See you all soon!

[guapo]

July Mod Squad

Good weather, good behavior, no work this week.

All good !!

[DancingGirl]

July Mod Squad

I'll not drink today

I won't drink today, because I need to do two AF days in a row.

(I'm re-appropriating the "I will not drink today because" thread from the Monthly Moderation board. It seems to have been colonized. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not comfortable posting there).

[guapo]

July Mod Squad

I won't either, but it's mainly because it's midweek, and there's no reason to.

[DancingGirl]

July Mod Squad

For me it's that old "habit" thing. I don't drink copiously, but I do have to fight the habit of enjoying a glass of wine on the patio almost every day after work. So. I won't drink today!!

[Stewarts]

July Mod Squad

I wont drink today because I was out with a train wreck last night (her not me), and it made me drink more than I wanted to! LOL :-)

(it's going to be one of those days...I think...)

[satz123]

July Mod Squad

Hi there.
I interested in how moderation works for folks on here.
Does it work for you ?

I have fought with my weight for decades and to me moderation of alcohol seems the same and just as painful.
I can have that - but I can't have that - even though everyone else is having that :upset:

It's soooo tiresome
I'm all for an easy life

The last time I 'allowed' myself drink - after the initial buzz I really didn't want to do it to myself then because I knew the outcome if I were to try 'keep up' with others.
But I did do it and it took me a week to get back to the nice , normal feeling of being AF.
I felt so bad I documented it to always remind myself that I do not want that feeling again.

I think now that drinking alcohol is abnormal. Specifically for 'us' because we know we have a problem with al - after all that is what brought us & keeps us here ?

[Stewarts]

July Mod Squad

HI Satz, well is not easy. You got me on a good day, because I had one of those tiresome nights last night. I think the scary thing is, when you slip-up, NOT knowing why. That is what used to scare the crap out of me. I would be good for a long time, and then something would happen, and I have no idea why. An abstainer friend actually put it into perspective, she said, "it's your goto." Like all of us.

I'm like you, I want an easy life. To the point, I've even said to myself, I like myself when I'm just boring.... LOL. My last slip up, bad one, kind of, was a about a month ago, which is when I got this advice. I was actually finally started to re-connect with some old friends and some new ones. I initially was having wine, because I wasn't planning on drinking really...long story short, I had too much....now nothing bad/embarrassing happened, I just felt like crap. I learned a few things...one, white wine makes me sick....like mentally and physically. Now, I like white wine, but need to watch it...is it worth it...no, of course not.

Last night, I had a similar situation. This girl I'm dating, is very curious by nature, which is fine. However, I didn't realize, what she was digging into, I didn't want to talk about, that made me order another margarita. Now, I'm being self conscious...because she saying things like, "I think you're absolutely sexy, but I want to see if I really like you as a person." This is a third date, all previous ones have been good, even this one is good, but now I'm thinking, "oh, crap, I am coming off as the boring business guy now."

So, we go to another place to eat where they know me, which was probably a mistake because they are heavy with the pours and service. Anyway, we order a bottle of perseco, I'm trying to show her a good time, which also leads me to bad jokes, which came into "you can pay for dinner." Which I absolutely did not expect her to. Anyway, this girl, just to sum it up quickly, to her own accord, comes from a white trash background, literally, women at 15 in her family having kids, and flipped!

I had to console her outside, I obviously struck a cord. She was crying, saying how much she hates me, etc...I never had to work for anything..etc... I did calm her down and we had a nice dinner, but again, more booze.
when
She wanted me to go to her place, I did....ok there is a point to this story....when things got uncomfortable for me in this situation, and when I felt vulnerable or boring, the "goto" unfortunately kicked in. The good news, I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.

Now, let's call her N, texted me this morning, "X, you're a great guy, but this is just not going to work out." I texted back, "Too bad. Understood." Now, is AL the reason this relationship didn't go anywhere else? No. It probably wouldn't work out. Joke or not, her reaction was COMPLETELY over the top. She definitely has some issues to work out and I'm not going to apologize for being successful and having a "normal" upbringing.

The good news. I know now, I need to be very conscious of this. I can't worry about people thinking I'm boring (I was a wild kid, that's why this stuff pains on me, the suit, is just a suit..LOL). If someone is pushing me to talk about something I don't want to talk about, for whatever reason, just say I don't want to talk about it, or make a comment like, "...best comes to those who wait." or something like that.

So, I did feel crappy this morning. I went to my club to go for a run and lay down for a bit. I emailed my hypnotherapist, re-confirming we had a session, because as I said, truthfully, "I've had some personal stresses this week and need my "me" time."

That's all it is/was.

This morning I also thought about interactions I've had with people when I'm the most comfortable, outside of work, I actually found, I'm most comfortable when I have people over, which in NYC looks like a line for girl, but for me, it's really not....I'm not expecting sex or even trying. Even this last one, I had her over for dinner the second date and we had a great time... there was a few glasses of wine, or champagne, that's all, no big deal...I felt secure, that's all it was.

I also feel secure when I am out with myself.

I am pining on all this because I am hoping this helps you. Moderation is possible. When I mod, or have modded the best was when I was married and when I am in a relationship. Why? I felt secure.

I am glad this happened with N. There's no ill will between us, there shouldn't be, she said how she felt and I acknowledged with no complaint. I either need to be stronger or, perhaps open up about these things I don't want to talk about, which is usually things I want to write about it...they are dark, I don't feel like discussing them...I don't feel like I am good at explaining them, verbally, ironically, writing them, easier.

Another thing, write on here and talk to people.

Keeping up with others...we can ALL relate. Let's face it, I'll say I don't like to drink, the reality is, I do. I just don't like what it does to me, and I think others here are the same. When you're entire adult and adolescent life it's been with you socially, it's hard to break. And let's not kid ourselves, some of my most fun as a kid and young man...the craziest, funniest stories, involved drugs and alcohol...but, also it was key in some of the worst.

Take it one day at a time. I know it sounds cheesy, but it's true. And you know what, most people, or I should say a lot of people have problems with alcohol, they just don't see it and I'm not talking about alcoholics, their issues are much more dire - it's life and death.

The good news for you Satz, is you want to do something about it. And you know what. You will.

j.

[guapo]

July Mod Squad

My Deal

satz123;1687993 wrote: Hi there.
I interested in how moderation works for folks on here.
Does it work for you ?



I think now that drinking alcohol is abnormal. Specifically for 'us' because we know we have a problem with al - after all that is what brought us & keeps us here ?

Knowing I had an issue with overdrinking, (3 bottles of wine/day was typical, I guess that's abnormal !) I asked the "experts" in my profession what to do. "Sign yourself into an outpatient but live-in sober house, with 8 weeks of 12 step based therapy and immediate abstinence. Then submit to random urine testing for 5 years, and 90 meetings in 90 days" Cost= $30,000 (about 14K pounds I suppose)

Wow I thought, is that my only option. Holy crap... What a nightmare.

The internet led me to the Sinclair Method (which helps, but isn't a be-all, cure-all). There are great books about moderation and seeing alcohol for what it really is, those helped too

Now I just drink sometimes, mostly at dinner ( I like good food, good wine) or at a family event. Never to get drunk, never over 3 drinks, EVER. My previous drinking habits never resulted in anything good, but drinking sanely is fine, and cannot lead to anything bad.

It works for me, I'm happy as hell, I never struggle, and am in control. So it's not one day at a time, but rather just a new better approach to life in general. Here's a quote form someone who summed it up well:

"It goes far beyond "getting to drink" - it's about mastery of self-control and sovereignty over oneself."

Maybe someday I'll stop drinking. Compared to where I was, the amount consumed now is next to nothing.

This forum is overwhelming abstinence oriented, but moderation is right for some, and it doesn't need to be difficult.

[Stewarts]

July Mod Squad

"So it's not one day at a time, but rather just a new better approach to life in general" Guapo that is a great quote...I like that a lot...I should start thinking like that... the journey.... it's great but a journey....oh, ha I got another funny story....it's just not my day with women...this "friend" of mine in Boston, I just texted, "ever have one of those days you just need a hug?" Well, I haven't spoken to her since may...we are connected on all the various social media, etc...she actually wrote back..."sorry for being absent, you just came on way to strong last time (when I visited her, I stayed over) and don't want to persue a relationship or friendship." ?!?!?!? I actually laughed. I really thought we'd be friends or we were friends and she's been thinking about this since May ?!?! I just wrote back, "Whoa, random, ok, still random...but ok. :-)" And the proceeded to delete all her contact info, social media connections etc....

It looks like I am just going to have one of those days LOL!!!

j.

[DancingGirl]

July Mod Squad

satz123;1687993 wrote: Hi there.
I interested in how moderation works for folks on here.
Does it work for you ?

I have fought with my weight for decades and to me moderation of alcohol seems the same and just as painful.
I can have that - but I can't have that - even though everyone else is having that :upset:

Hi Satz,

Your question seems in good faith and I like dialogue. I'm not going to give as long an answer as my friend Stewarts but it's really a great exercise to reflect.

I definitely see people's relationship with alcohol on a sliding scale and perhaps the comparison with food and weight is a useful one. There are people who never have a problem and never will. There are people who had or have momentary problems, but they are an anomaly. Then there are people like me, who definitely have a drinking problem, but it is controllable. Then there are people like many on this site, who really never can have "just one" and have stories that make me cry.

My struggle with AL is sort of like someone who gets in the habit of buying fast food for lunch everyday. S/he gains weight, gets pimples, knows that the diet of burgers, pizza, pop, and chips isn't ideal, but, well, it tastes good and is just the ritual. So - why not brown bag it, but every once in a while have a piece of pizza? I can imagine it being a struggle, especially at the beginning. Perhaps there are friends that all go out for burgers together. Perhaps to get water, one has to go past the cafeteria and SMELL that delicious pizza. Argue, control, break the habit, but sometimes have some chips anyway.

BUT - this is different from someone who is morbidly obese, or has an eating disorder, and copious attendant health problems.

Now, I know that the metaphor breaks down when one realises that we all have to eat, and no one but no one HAS to drink. But when I think about my journey with moderate drinking, the comparison seems apt.

I have a habit of getting a glass of wine when I get home from work. If I'm home early and get the glass at 4:30, I'll have a second and then a couple at dinner. Four glasses of wine for me is too much, and every day is definitely above the recommended units etc. etc. But, two things about my own experience: first is that 4-5 is really the limit. I don't finish the bottle and start on the next, get completely hammered, and ... well ... etc. I have an off switch. The second is that if I delay having the first glass until I'm ready for dinner, I can quite easily just have 1 or 2. The wine enhances the food, then I stop when it's time for dessert.

My struggle is with the habit and making sure that I have several AF days a week. "Normal" relationship with AL - no. Moderation possible - yes.

I think this has turned out to be long after all!!

Be well

[Stewarts]

July Mod Squad

fast food analogy

DancingGirl;1688043 wrote: Hi Satz,

Your question seems in good faith and I like dialogue. I'm not going to give as long an answer as my friend Stewarts but it's really a great exercise to reflect.

I definitely see people's relationship with alcohol on a sliding scale and perhaps the comparison with food and weight is a useful one. There are people who never have a problem and never will. There are people who had or have momentary problems, but they are an anomaly. Then there are people like me, who definitely have a drinking problem, but it is controllable. Then there are people like many on this site, who really never can have "just one" and have stories that make me cry.

My struggle with AL is sort of like someone who gets in the habit of buying fast food for lunch everyday. S/he gains weight, gets pimples, knows that the diet of burgers, pizza, pop, and chips isn't ideal, but, well, it tastes good and is just the ritual. So - why not brown bag it, but every once in a while have a piece of pizza? I can imagine it being a struggle, especially at the beginning. Perhaps there are friends that all go out for burgers together. Perhaps to get water, one has to go past the cafeteria and SMELL that delicious pizza. Argue, control, break the habit, but sometimes have some chips anyway.

BUT - this is different from someone who is morbidly obese, or has an eating disorder, and copious attendant health problems.

Now, I know that the metaphor breaks down when one realises that we all have to eat, and no one but no one HAS to drink. But when I think about my journey with moderate drinking, the comparison seems apt.

I have a habit of getting a glass of wine when I get home from work. If I'm home early and get the glass at 4:30, I'll have a second and then a couple at dinner. Four glasses of wine for me is too much, and every day is definitely above the recommended units etc. etc. But, two things about my own experience: first is that 4-5 is really the limit. I don't finish the bottle and start on the next, get completely hammered, and ... well ... etc. I have an off switch. The second is that if I delay having the first glass until I'm ready for dinner, I can quite easily just have 1 or 2. The wine enhances the food, then I stop when it's time for dessert.

My struggle is with the habit and making sure that I have several AF days a week. "Normal" relationship with AL - no. Moderation possible - yes.

I think this has turned out to be long after all!!

Be well

Dancing Girl, I think the fast food analogy is perfect. I know I have, and I'm sure others have said to themselves, "Why do I make myself sick?" I k now I'm going to get sick, feel bad, etc....why do it? People with food, I think, know this food is not good for them, but still find themselves eating it, knowing this.

Funny I was thinking again to when I felt most secure...it was when I met my wife and we first started dating....and ironically, my last disaster gf...I didn't feel the need to drink...with the last one it only happened when things started getting bad....

I remember when I first met my wife, still, those, wow, almost 8 years ago...I was modding like a champ.... I don't know why I've become so insecure lately...

:/

j.

[guapo]

July Mod Squad

No doubt this is different for everyone, the obesity analogy is pretty apt. Everyone needs to find their own way with this process if they want to get better. What is indisputable is that whether you abstain or moderate, there's no way your life wont improve

Thinking back to when I was drinking all the time, and did nothing to fix it, makes me thank God I finally did

In the big picture though I think the vast majority of people aren't doing anything about their drinking, and that's the real shame, because it can be done