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    #1

    2 articles on the moderation/abstinence debate

    AA Alternatives: Moderation Management (#2 in a series)

    Dean's World: AA Alternatives: Moderation Management (#2 in a series)

    This one focuses on MM and audrey kishline. audrey was the founder of MM much maligned by 12 step leaders after her well publicised drunk driving accident in which she killed 2 people. what most people don't know is that she had resigned from MM and went into AA and was currently following the 12 step program when she had her accident. She is held up as the preeminant example of why any program that allows moderation as an option or views it as a successful outcome are wrong, but as you will read there are some serious zealots who refuse to acknowledge any shortcomings in their own program. By the way I don't think one way is better than the other, we all have to figure it out for ourselves. I can just say that for me personally I am less skeptical of programs that offer me more options than less. The editorial and subsequent disscusion here I thought was interesting. hope you do too.

    Is moderation a legitimate outcome in alcohol treatment?
    Is moderation a legitimate outcome in alcohol treatment? Many would consider anything short of total abstinance as a goal for a heavy drinker to be a failure. “The person was a heavy drinker, now they are a moderate drinker. They are still drinki

    more research based article
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    #2
    2 articles on the moderation/abstinence debate

    Moderation is Confusing

    Greetings Girls

    I find this whole moderation idea confusing. The part of me who wants to drink less needs some strategies or guidelines as to what is acceptable. I have it in my own mind that I would be happy if I didn't drink during the week - only Friday, Saturday & Sunday night. Should there be a cap on how much I drink on these nights. Does anyone have a recipe that worked for them they would like to share? As I'm sure you know, it's hard when you love the taste, the sense of relaxation it brings, holding a glass in your hand, the labels on the bottles, the confidence it gives you, in fact all parts of drinking wine, wine, wine.

    miss m:h

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      #3
      2 articles on the moderation/abstinence debate

      Most moderation programs, MWO and MM included, suggest a minimum of 30 days alcohol free. Then you will have a clearer head and can make that decision. Some plan to do 30 days and feel so good about the control they gained, they keep the momentum going. Some can then have a drink and stop.

      Remember that to be successful, you must replace the drinking with a new and healthy behavior.

      All the best-

      Comment

        #4
        2 articles on the moderation/abstinence debate

        Hi Out,

        It's funny that at the end of the first article the author says that "dissing" any alcohol treatment programme isn't helpful, and yet that's exactly what he's done to AA throughout! Yep, there are zealots on all sides.

        I think the most important thing is for people to be absolutely honest with themselves about whether they are capable of cutting down or moderating. The "rules" in these articles about moderating seem very tough - writing down why you want a drink and what the consequences might be before having one, and then if you want another (but certainly not less than one hour after the first one!) having to write it all down again. That would take any "fun" out of it for me, but if that works for some people good luck to them.

        For the record, I know I can't moderate. If I start drinking, I don't stop. But it's taken me quite a few years to admit that to myself or anyone else. Honesty is key. And then people can work on whichever system works best for them.
        sigpic
        AF since December 22nd 2008
        Real change is difficult, and slow, and messy - Oliver Burkeman

        Comment

          #5
          2 articles on the moderation/abstinence debate

          Marshy;301184 wrote: Hi Out,

          It's funny that at the end of the first article the author says that "dissing" any alcohol treatment programme isn't helpful, and yet that's exactly what he's done to AA throughout! Yep, there are zealots on all sides.

          I think the most important thing is for people to be absolutely honest with themselves about whether they are capable of cutting down or moderating. The "rules" in these articles about moderating seem very tough - writing down why you want a drink and what the consequences might be before having one, and then if you want another (but certainly not less than one hour after the first one!) having to write it all down again. That would take any "fun" out of it for me, but if that works for some people good luck to them.
          For the record, I know I can't moderate. If I start drinking, I don't stop. But it's taken me quite a few years to admit that to myself or anyone else. Honesty is key. And then people can work on whichever system works best for them.
          I cannot moderate either. It took a long time for me to realize it but I can deal with it. I agree self honesty is the key to success. For me, doing the above would be a disaster and I would end up hating myself again.

          Comment

            #6
            2 articles on the moderation/abstinence debate

            I love this guy Anthony de Mello, a Jesuit priest - love his books. He says -
            "Anytime you renounce something you are tied forever to the thing you renounce. There's a guru in India who says "Every time a prostitute comes to me, she's talking about nothing but God. She says I'm sick of this life I am living. I want God. But every time a priest comes to me he's talking about nothing but sex.'...As long as you fight something you're giving it power..."
            That is from his book Awareness:The Perils and Opportunities of Reality.
            I know everyone can't moderate, but I really love this guy.
            Lila

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              #7
              2 articles on the moderation/abstinence debate

              Thanks Lila...

              I will definately look him up. That is how I think or try to think also. No matter what, I beleive that moderation is possible...I also believe it is a personal choice. For me I don't just want to end the abusive drinking I want to end the all or nothing thinking that permeates many areas of my life. For me, I think applying the all or nothing thinking to my drinking, just stresses me out, makes the obsessivesnes worse etc. I think this priest is very wise.

              Comment

                #8
                2 articles on the moderation/abstinence debate

                I think the prostitute, the guru & the priest are wise. We all have different and shared experiences. Options are essential. The same thing doesn't work for everyone, but everyone deserves compassion.

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                  #9
                  2 articles on the moderation/abstinence debate

                  Lila;331133 wrote: I love this guy Anthony de Mello, a Jesuit priest - love his books. He says -
                  "Anytime you renounce something you are tied forever to the thing you renounce."
                  Lila
                  I love Tony de Mello, too. I also think that the quote is most useful when applied to renouncing aspects of ourselves, rather than (for example) substances or behaviors that are harmful to us. We should, in effect, accept that we have a "shadow side." And, of course, if we look at the other side of the coin... let's say we are talking about alcohol... the choice of NOT renouncing alcohol, but keeping it as part of our lives, also keeps us tied forever to... alcohol...

                  For me, what I must not renounce (what I must accept) is the awareness that I am prone to self-destructive behavior with alcohol. This will always be part of me.

                  wip

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                    #10
                    2 articles on the moderation/abstinence debate

                    Yes, that is a good way to look at it. I love him, own three of his books!

                    Comment

                      #11
                      2 articles on the moderation/abstinence debate

                      Priest got me thinking

                      When I was drinking I handed my will and my life over to Alcohol, when I stoped drinking my life became about recovery and handing my will and my life over to a higher power, sponsor, councillor etc. I was also told I was an alcoholic, powerless and if I should pick up a drink I would loss all control.

                      So my life became about bouncing between these two cousin states (either in recovery or losing control over drink). I think that perhaps the answer for me is not about fighting alcoholism (as I will surely loses, as the more I struggle, the stronger it gets) but rather divorcing alcohol. To make a purposeful and unrepentant decision to break all contact, cut all ties, and get on with my life, never looking back. Of course this is impossible, even dangerous. It?s more about where I put the emphasis or focus in my life.

                      So for me it is to late, I could never moderate. But I sometimes wonder what would of happened if I?d received the moderation message. If I?d been told that I was a problem drinker rather than an alcoholic. Belief is a powerful thing. You may have guessed that I tend to be easily influenced. Well that?s changing. I?m taking back control and responsibility for my life.

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