Is alcoholism really a disease???? here is some insight

[trixietrack]

Is alcoholism really a disease???? here is some insight

me lurking again

However, I was provoked by the emphasis this article puts on the choice the alcoholic has, as if the alcoholic is always in control and behaves consciously and purposefully in a way to make themselves addicted-- c'mon! Nobody chooses to be addicted to something!

the above is right, I think the choosing to become addicted part is more subconscious than conscious and it should be stated as such.

No matter how you look at it, disease or not, I think we all agree that we do have a choice about trying to overcome alcoholic addiction, and that we must do so.

[nancy]

Is alcoholism really a disease???? here is some insight

Hi again

Trixie,

Thanks for bringing the site AA and 12-Step Alternative Addiction Information to our attention. I read some of the articles and found them thought-provoking.

There was a link to a very interesting article by a woman who has had mental illness (depression) and was self-medicating with various things before going on anti-depressants. I guess the anti-depressants gave her what she had been getting with more damaging substances. Her article was really thoughtful and open about the debate in treating depression with pharmaceuticals and the relationship between addiction and depression.

Another thing I read somewhere on the site was an argument that brain studies show
that alcoholics change their brain chemistry in such a way through over-drinking that they physically can no longer control drinking. And this apparently can be proven in studies.

Anyone care to comment on that?

And regarding choice, aside from this aspect of brain studies, choice is definitely involved. I think unfortunately, people don't make good choices for themselves when self-esteem is very low. Certainly, if you feel overwhelmed by mental issues, it doesn't seem like choice is there. But I think programs, including AA and of course MWO, make people aware that there is some choosing involved. That's a good thing.

[Destined for Joy]

Is alcoholism really a disease???? here is some insight

I have to comment on Diabetes...Type 1 is an auto immune disease where the immune system is attacking the beta cells of the pancreas where insulin is made...no cure. Type 2, which previously was called Adult Onset is no longer seen in just adults, but children in an alarming rate of increase. This is a lifestyle dis-ease. The pancreas may be exhausted and no longer producing enough insulin, but, more often than not, the fat cells are so saturated they can no longer accept insulin....that is Insulin Resistance. Too many carbs is more the culprit because some of the carbs that are not burned at consumption are stored in the muscles and liver as Glycogen....for reserve. The rest is converted into Triglycerides (fat in the blood) and stored in the cells...that's how they become saturated and unable to function properly. This is a very over simplified explanation....beer....lots of carbs, is very high glycemic and can accerlate the risk of developing Diabetes. The Book Death To Diabetes by DeWayne McCaully will refute, with little room for argument, that Diabetes can be, not only reversed, but cured...he is living proof. The choice we make of what to put into our bodies is the difference between life and death. And the craziness of this issue for me is that as a Wellness Coach who can counsel folks about helath and wellness and as a woman of Faith who prays for healing and wholeness for others, I am, at times, unable to do the same for myself. BUT...I am bound and determined...I am Destined for Joy and to shake off the old demons that haunt me! We all have to keep going

[Cinders]

Is alcoholism really a disease???? here is some insight

Destined,

Thank you. The example of Type 2 Diabetes I was trying to establish was totally lost by the "it doesn't come in a bottle" comnment. However, it does come in paper bags of drive throughs, junk food and a sedentary lifestyle.

Type 2 Diabetes can be controlled by exercise and food choices, just like alcoholism can be controlled by choosing to drink or not drink.

Is Type 2 Diabetes a disease or a social condition?

Does it matter? I am not sure. What matters are the choices we make AND we are responsible for them.

Love,
Cindi

[WildAtHeart]

Is alcoholism really a disease???? here is some insight

Quote from the article:

"Chemical processes do not make a person an alcoholic. The person makes the conscience choice. Altered processing of alcohol in no way determines choice or behaviors. Obsessive drinking is not a reaction to bodily processes, but merely a choice. The amount consumed is determined by the individual not by the body."

I find this paragraph to be completely untrue. Given that I have spent 15 days using supplementation to reduce my alcohol craving ... I don't even know how anyone here could agree 100% with the above statement. (This isn't meant as a criticism of anyone) If it were determined only by individual choice then no one would require topa or supplements to quit drinking or move into moderation. To me, there absolutely IS a chemical component -- and I would be truly suprised if anyone here who is following the MWO program would believe otherwise. I think the studies with Topa and other alcohol reduction craving supps. certainly support the idea that some people's brains are chemically engineered to find alcohol a struggle.

[Sunbeam]

Is alcoholism really a disease???? here is some insight

Something in this morning's paper talked about how alcohol and other drugs change the brain's chemistry. Starting drinking is a choice, but once you have changed that brain chemistry, it is pretty difficult to stop with just will power. You would be fighting an uphill battle, as the saying goes. I also agree that the brain chemistry seems to chage more readily for some than others.

[gyco]

Is alcoholism really a disease???? here is some insight

hi trix,good thread,ive said it a few times ,look it up,C.A.S. its a new temanolagy,for one with an alchohol problem,in canada anyways,i think in the states to,or maybe the place i went to lied,CHRONIC ALCHOHOL SYNDROME,and yes to my knowledge i was born with it,wsnt my fault,my parents should not of had me,my mother had 6 mis carrigaes,b4 she had my sister,she was born crippled,did it have to do with AL,who knows,her leg was broke at birth and stopped growing,my family was bitter,docs, fault,maybe not,maybe she fell when pregnant and didnt tell my father,she was a drinker,my bro came out ok,but he drinks like a fish,once a week,and takes the rest of the week to heal,and then theres me,i was suppose to die,born in the 50 s,jauntice,really bad case of it,children get jauntice,at birth now,is it due to the fact tht the gene is passed from generation to generation,as of rt now it is fact,it is passed down,tht is why doctors are saying it is a desease,simple calcculation,if you had a bad reaction to peanuts ,its called an alergie,you dont eat them cause you mt die,stop eating them,if you drink,dont have kids,thts wht ive figured out anyways gyco

[Eve11]

Is alcoholism really a disease???? here is some insight

I haven't researched it enough or put to memory the info I have read but here's my thought. Why are certain races more prone to alcoholism than others? I had a nurse friend tell me the other day that native American Indians lack an enzyme that processes alcohol. They also lack something or perhaps have something that makes it difficult for them to quit drinking once they start. When we look at that happening to a race of people it certainly sounds genetic to me...and genetic would indicate it's more of a disease.

I did agree with the previous post about psychological trauma related to alcoholism. Think there are more reasons than just one of why there are problem drinkers.

Just wanted to add my 2 cents. Guess you have figured out I didn't agree with the article but thanks for sharing it.
Eve11

[nancy]

Is alcoholism really a disease???? here is some insight

Just read Heart of Addiction, which really provides a lot of insights on this.

Yes there is an inability in certain cultures to metabolize alcohol but that does not mean it is a disease.

There is no one particular gene for alcoholism and twin studies have been inconclusive.

There may be a genetic propensity for alcoholism, combined with many other factors. Like if you have certain traits you might be more prone to it.

The fact that people switch addictions once they quit one could mean there is an addictive problem not linked to the particular substance (like people who quit alcohol and become food addicts or move to drugs). It's a good read if anyone wants to check it out. Of course it doesn't address learned reward pathways, which I have read a little about. That would be caused by abuse of alcohol I believe.

[veritas]

Is alcoholism really a disease???? here is some insight

Nancy, you bring up an important point in terms of cross addiction. If I look at sugar and smoking, these are two very serious addictions, both leading eventually to chronic illness. I suppose what makes alcohol more problematic, is the impact it has on behaviour..

If I look at the approach to the debate on alcohol addiction, there is often a "one size fits all" approach. This, I find problematic.

My family, extended family is riddled with all kinds of addiction on my father's side. I do, however see two very different "kinds" of onset. My father and brother both became addicted at an early age. My father died very young, as a result of this and I can see my brother going the same way. They both share certain personality characteristics, in that there is poor impulse control and a very high need for excitement. They are aso very, very "elastic" with the truth.
I do think that there is a very strong genetic component there, which is linked to certain personality predispositions.

My uncle and I have followed a different and longer course. We have both self medicated. I do believe that in actual fact, our addiction is a normal response to abnormal behaviour. Our bodies have constantly had to adapt to increasing levels of alcohol use. For long periods, we fell into the "social drinking" category.

If one looks at some groups predisposed to later addiction, social phobics fall into this group. Another is the bi-polar group, where self medication is also an issue. I do believe, that in these cases, addiction is secondary ot other facors..

[Eve11]

Is alcoholism really a disease???? here is some insight

Hi Everyone
Found a very interesting article on this site (MWO) under research. Think the title was "Can alcoholism be treated?". It medically explains why we can have these crazy cravings for alcohol..."Just one more glass" if we're modding or possibly relapsing if we're AF. Read on and then I'll comment at the end once you've read. Don't think it really addresses whether it's a disease or not and in some ways I'm not really sure I care how it's labeled. I just care that I am bothered that I have trouble being a controlled drinker like other people who don't have problems. Here goes: Only copied parts of the article as it's fairly lengthy.
---
Campral, the first alcoholism drug to win Food & Drug Administration approval in 10 years, is designed to suppress alcohol cravings by targeting specific brain chemicals thrown out of balance by drinking.

Drugs that target the brain's addiction pathways can curb drinking.

Alcohol releases a neurotransmitter called GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid), instrumental in creating a sense of euphoria. Too much GABA can impair muscle control and slow reaction times, so the brain releases a stimulating chemical called glutamate to keep it in check. When alcohol is cut off, glutamate levels remain high and can cause irritability and discomfort. To relieve those feelings, the brain craves another drink. As more GABA and glutamate are released, brain cells change their structure to accommodate the excess chemicals, making them dependent on these levels. When alcohol is withdrawn, painful emotional and physical reactions are set off.

GABA may be the reason people drink, but glutamate is the reason they can't stop. This powerful neurotransmitter is a key player in the brain's learning centers, and excess amounts create deeply embedded memories of drinking. Years after a person quits, these memories can be triggered by a place, person, or even smell associated with drinking, setting off intense cravings. Such cue-induced cravings are the main reason for relapse. "They're why it can be easy to get off a drug, but it's very hard to stay off," says Dr. Herbert D. Kleber, director of the division on substance abuse at Columbia University.

Campral helps alcoholics resist these cravings by checking production of glutamate, bringing the brain's chemistry back into balance. Clinical studies of Campral have shown that after six months of treatment, 36% of patients were still abstinent, compared with 23.4% on placebo.
***
So, I may have the answer to the question that plagues ME which is why can I drink sometimes, have one or two and can quit with ease while other times I am out of control and want to keep drinking and drinking? So, from this article I am thinking when I have those out of control times I have more glutamate than other times and that makes the cravings more intense. What I don't understand is WHY do I have more glutamate sometimes? What are the variables that are making that higher?

Would love to hear thoughts from fellow members - especially those that have researched this.

Eve11
_____________

[veritas]

Is alcoholism really a disease???? here is some insight

The role of memories and subliminal cues makes such sense.

I went to fetch something from the post office a few days ago. I was feeling, good, happy and full of resolve to remain sober for the day. I walked into a store quickly to get a few groceries. Suddenly, out of the blue, I was hit by cravings from hell. I could not understand why, it was at a centre I seldom visit.

After a while, a very clear memory returned of the last time I visited. I had also gone first to collect a parcel. I had then gone into the store, craving, and bought a bottle of wine, which I then flattened in a couple of hours. Cetainly, the memory cues had triggered the craving.

Building alternative neural pathways is going to take time.

[Evie.Lou]

Is alcoholism really a disease???? here is some insight

A rose by any other name ???? Blah...Blah...Blah ....
An illness, disease or what ever you want to call it...it stinks just as BAD .
I love the common definition of DISEASE being anything that causes DIS EASE...Emotional , Spiritual or Phyisical .
Alcoholism sure fits that definition.

[inventorgtp]

Is alcoholism really a disease???? here is some insight

disese, syndrome its a jump ball. The nitty is that for some the action of booze on us is much "bigger" than the general population, making moderation difficult. That situation seems to be bound geneticly, so it might best be labled a syndrome and can be treated. We are learning so much about the brain and it true functioning now that its increadible and with that new knowlage old ideas such as "hey your just crazy" (bi polar) now are looked at and treated as what they are.

Treatment for overindulgance (booze in this case) comes now with not only some phycologicial levers but medical ones too. This breaks down to why do we drink, and why do we drink too much too often. The former is pretty common for all people, stress, lonelyness, boredom, and anxity. The over indulgance part is treateable now using meds such as naltraxone, balcofen, camperal, topomax and others. The way they work differs with baclofen, camperal and topmax being gab a and gab b anoginst (setting them to function normaly if you will) with naltraxone preventing the "high" that comes from drinking.

I personaly like naltraxone, its cheap and has a long track record but will be giveing balcofen a try because its even cheaper and has a even longer track record of long term use with few if any side effects. I am also looking at why i binge drink, its pretty clear that its part of my current life situation, so I will work on changeing that. I see my brain as a bioelectrical system with mine haveing some hardware gilitches. I can take "things" to fix the glitches, just like we take viatamins to "fix" our diatary "glitches". In the end if I take nal, bal, or what ever daily for good health, just as I take vitamins and a baby asprin then thats just being realistic and proavtive about my own health.

[aurora borialis]

Is alcoholism really a disease???? here is some insight

I find it interesting the idea that diabetes could be a choice or a disease or is alcoholism a disease or a choice. There are a multitide of studies that show that diabetes can be a choice if you eat terribly and/or if you were given unhealthy food as a child. There is also a genetic risk. I think there may be a genetic risk of alcohol abuse as well as a choice issue. It is all a complicated issue that needs more study .