BOOZE BUSTERS 30 Day AF Hangover Free Challenge - Week of 9/1/08!

[A Work in Progress]

BOOZE BUSTERS 30 Day AF Hangover Free Challenge - Week of 9/1/08!

Wow, Pamina, very difficult and sad (and angry and all those emotions) situation, and you are doing great. I admire you so much, and I am probably close behind you in terms of the stages that elderly parents go through. You give me hope and encouragement. I'm glad you are talking to the grief counselor, and hope that your Dad experiences only peace and comfort during this time.

wip

[SAUSAGE]

BOOZE BUSTERS 30 Day AF Hangover Free Challenge - Week of 9/1/08!

Hi again all

Can I ask a silly question - I am sure this is a really dumb thing to ask but it is troubling me;

As I mentioned earlier, I did manage to string together an amazing 108 AF days earlier this yr and then went to pieces after someone suggested that I could easily moderate and have a nice glass of wine just once in a while. Within about 4 days I was back to old levels of 40-50 units of wine / week. During my AF period I found that as the days built up it became easier to keep going because I didn't want to spoil my record if you see what I mean - is this a common feeling!? ie when I got past 90 days it was possibly easier to not drink at night as I was beginning to break the habit (well only very slightly -not much easier ) but the one thing that kept me continuing AF was the huge run of days that i'd built up which I didn't watn to spoil not that i'd got over the addiction if you see what I mean! I found that once I had that one drink I saw things differenly and - well i'd broken my run of days so I might as well start all over again and drink every day for the next few days, rather than seeing it as a minor blip 108/1 (as some people on here would record it) and be able to carry on AF the next day.

What are your thoughts on this anyone?

[A Work in Progress]

BOOZE BUSTERS 30 Day AF Hangover Free Challenge - Week of 9/1/08!

Hi, Sausage. What you are talking about is not at all unusual. It's called the "Abstinence Violation Effect." It's well-known among researchers on addiction, and is especially troublesome in groups like AA where length of sobriety is a sort of status symbol. When we see our number of AF days (or months or years) as the most important aspect of our freedom from alcohol, then "losing" that magic number can lead us easily to think, "what the hell," and drink even more instead of just getting up and back on the horse.

The antidote is to place your mental focus more heavily on the advantages of staying free of alcohol over the long haul, instead of so much on building up length of time. Does that help any?

wip

[SAUSAGE]

BOOZE BUSTERS 30 Day AF Hangover Free Challenge - Week of 9/1/08!

Thanks for that WIP - that really makes sense. Did a bit of google research on AVE and I can really relate to it - Given me quite a bit to think about - thanks!

[Doggygirl]

BOOZE BUSTERS 30 Day AF Hangover Free Challenge - Week of 9/1/08!

Hi again BBer's. WIP - I totally apologize because I neglected to greet you this morning!! I will blame it on not enough coffee at the time I posted. There are lots and lots of biking / hiking trails around here. There are miles and miles of an old train line that were converted to trails and there are lots of forest preserve type areas nearby. It's pretty cool and most smart people would have been taking advantage of those trails for enjoyment all along. Me.? Too busy drinking. Sad. But that is changing! Your grill sounds like the best of both worlds - easier/faster to get going than charcoal only, but keeping the charcoal taste. I've got to figure out the wood chip thing. Baby steps!!

Pamina I am so sorry about your Dad. I hope he is not in pain or suffering - you are such a good daughter to take care of him like you are doing. It must be helpful to see the counselor and have someone to talk to about all those feelings. Hang in there Pamina - I'm sending you a big one of these :l through cyberspace.

Sausage there are lots of different thoughts on counting. I think it's an individual thing - how you mentally process it. For me keeping track of the days helps give me a sense of accomplishment. It also gives me a sense of having something I value, and don't want to give up. I also fall back on my experience quitting smoking, which I did first and am just over 1.5 years nicotine free. I counted days like a mad woman when I first quit smoking and it helped. The counting really fell by the wayside all by itself in it's own time. I couldn't even say exactly when I started losing track of the days - realizing I hadn't thought of smoking in multiple days. These days I remember my monthly anniversay most of the time - and often on the actual "day of" rather than day after.

At the same time I'm counting my sober days, I hit a point somewhere between 60 and 90 days where I realized that there must be more to this than just "not drinking." I had already made some positive lifestyle changes (i.e. exercise, which ROCKS in terms of helping me stay AF). But I needed to view life style changes in a bigger and broader way.

I am also trying to do a little work each day to shore up my sobriety. I'm working on the SMART recovery program tools, and also doing some reading. I've started going to a weekly face to face meeting (not AA, but "live people") and that has been a positive experience as well. I want to build a stronger foundation for my sober life.

Don't know if that's helpful or not!!

Have a great rest of the day everyone!

DG
Day 104

[SAUSAGE]

BOOZE BUSTERS 30 Day AF Hangover Free Challenge - Week of 9/1/08!

Thanks for thoughts on counting. Am actually very confused and mixed up in my own mind
Can't decide whether I should abstain or moderate (don't think moderation is possible after my failure when I tried after 108 AF days) - but i'd like it to be!!! - presume many people in my situation go through this tirmoil in their mind
Can't decide whether I should count the days forever - Although this builds inner pride there's a risk that if I do relapse I would be back at square one again and what the hell - however if I dont' at least count them at the beginning I'd get nowhere!! I need something to build on to start with.

I guess, like so many people have said before me, I just have to take it "one day at a time!"

Pleased to say i've reached the end of Day 2 AF. Was really tempted around 7.30 ( the wine in the garage was calling me!!!) but forced myself to go to the swimming baths instead and did 36 lengths!! and so got through the witching hr!! Making myself accountable on here and everyone's support really helped.:thanks:

[Miss Behaving]

BOOZE BUSTERS 30 Day AF Hangover Free Challenge - Week of 9/1/08!

quick check in from me!

It is SO GREAT to see some new people (hi sausage and MP/madi!) and old ones ( Pamina, Teardrop, WIP). Not to mention our commander in chief DG!! I'm sure I've missed someone ... sorry ...

I'm good down here, but the wi-fi where I'm staying isn't free (as advertised - thought it was too good to be true) so time is limited. I'm feeling stronger and stroppier than I have done for ages and ages. Grieving for my friend, but having such a lovely time with her family - her daughter and I have become close though all of this, and her grandchildren (who are in their early - mid teens) are just terrific human beings. We've got past the really horrible bits and are entering into the "celebrating her life" stage.

Sausage - I worked out some time ago that doing other stuff in the evenings is the key for me to staying AF. Stick with the swimming! Unfortunately I got out of the habit of that. I'm conscious that when I get back home I have a few (early) evening things on over the next couple of weeks - trying to work out in my head whether to just not go to them or go (a couple of them are really interesting talks where I have a lot of interest in the content and partly need to be there for work) but try to do something like a swim afterwards.

The town where I am is hippy-ville and lots of fun. Funnilly enough, the supermarket has the smallest booze section of any supermarket that I have seen in NZ ... its more of a place where people smoke lots of dope rather than drink. And I haven't done that since 1986 (wouldn't it be nice to say that about wine!!) The whole environment is very small town, relaxed and chilled out, most of the food stores are organic, and the only public transport is to take people to the closest population centre - otherwise people either walk or cycle. It is very appealing ......!!

take care all and strength in your arms to those who are struggling with the booze beast.

[retteacher]

BOOZE BUSTERS 30 Day AF Hangover Free Challenge - Week of 9/1/08!

Hi Everyone:

I don't always come here but just read the thread all the way through. Very interesting...especially the Abstinence Violation Effect. I've certainly had that happen to me...the situation where I've gone for a long period wo/drinking counting the days, then drink & say "what the heck" & go off the deep end. This time I am keeping track but only for myself. I have a sobriety calendar that keeps track automatically, & I do like looking at all the zeros in DrinkTracker. But I really don't want to share any numbers w/anyone (including myself) for a while. I'm taking my abs one day at a time (ODAT) & really trying to savor the specific events & ways that sobriety is making my life much more wonderful.
-no hiding.
-no wasting money.
-remembering everything.
-feeling good about myself.
-etc.

I'll try to check in tomorrow.

Love, Mary

[louise]

BOOZE BUSTERS 30 Day AF Hangover Free Challenge - Week of 9/1/08!

Pamina, I'm so sorry your dad is getting worse much more rapidly than originally predicated. Glad to hear he is getting appropriate pain management and that you have some support. Good to see you back Teardrop. Welcome MP and Sausage.
Hi DG, WW, WIP, Mame, Mary and July, as well as everyone else joining in.

[happydog]

BOOZE BUSTERS 30 Day AF Hangover Free Challenge - Week of 9/1/08!

Hi booze busters,

Doggygirl. it funny we not had much bbq this year may because the weather not to good! sounds like you had fun on your bike ride. congratulation 5year in your business.
Pamina, sorry to hear about your dad, it so good that yor getting counselling.
sausage, welcome cant believe your hubby got 200+ botttles that would scare me if i was to se them. But you can do this again, there is lots of support here. Its a good question you ask because, like you when i slip i carry on drinking. I know there is a guy at my group session and his been 4years sober, the question was ask if he had a slip in the last 4years and he said yes i think he had 3or4 and when im talking about a slip it was just one glass i was so surprise! but he was telling the truth, dont want to be horrible but he still looks like a alcoholic he is a really nice guy. so it can be done! if Im right when star known as darling had her slip she went straight back af. It all about mindset.

3days af for me, thought i was ok but later on i felt a bit nausea and weak yesterday a friend recommended ginger tea and it help. woke up today and needed a hot water bottle ( time of the month) still feeling weak but taking my supp's.

Have a good day everyone anyone i miss :l

Take care

Love
Teardrop.x

[vlad]

BOOZE BUSTERS 30 Day AF Hangover Free Challenge - Week of 9/1/08!

Day 3 for me - feeling a little perkier today but craving a drink like mad - don't worry - I WILL NOT HAVE A DRINK TODAY!

[Doggygirl]

BOOZE BUSTERS 30 Day AF Hangover Free Challenge - Week of 9/1/08!

Good Day Booze Busters!!! Wow we have an awesome BB Team for September. Look out Beast!

Sausage - you have more experience with this ABS thing than I do - so I have no idea if this thought is on target for your situation or not. But I'll throw it out there just as food for thought since you mention some angst over the question of moderation, and wanting that. (i.e. hoping it's possible for you) Of course I don't know what is possible or not for anyone else but me. What I DO know is that our addicted brains WANT A FIX and drive our thinking in efforts to GET A FIX. Moderation thoughts can be part of that mind trick to convince us that we don't REALLY have to stop drinking. I'm wondering if some of the concerns over counting days or not counting days, etc. REALLY ties to the more central question that your inner Beast wants to know - when will you give your Beast some alcohol again?

I figured out during my LONG fall after 60 days that moderation is not an option for me. (or if I were to try making it an option, it would be a LOT more work than just quitting alcohol altogether). Yes I still have to deal with urges like everybody else. But it seems easier this time around just because the choice to drink is off the table.

Here is a suggestion. REALLY think about moderation, and why you believe you wish to be able to moderate someday, despite your negative experiences with alcohol thus far. What is it about booze that you want it in your life - at least a little bit? What benefits does that have for you? What do you think are the risks? Is it worth it?

For myself, I realistically can't see myself succeeded at that - at least not on my own. While Topomax has worked to help people here at MWO (including RJ) with a moderation solution, I'm not willing to take prescription drugs for the purpose of being able to drink alcohol in a controlled fashion. Not saying that should be anyone else's choice - that's just how I see it for me.

GOOD FOR YOU swimming at the witching hour. I have found exercise to be a wonderful part of my plan this time around.

Anyway...hope that is food for thought if nothing else!

Mame - I'm glad you and your friend's family are to that place where you can begin to celebrate her life. The town you are in sounds wonderful!!! LOL on your term hippy-ville. I hope that you all find peace through this grieving process.

Mary it is great to see you here!! You have such good words of wisdom I hope you visit more often!!

Hi louise!! I forgot to mention that I made Louise Specials on Saturday to get me through dog training day. They were wonderful as always. Thank you again for that recipe!

Teardrop congratulations on Day 3!! I'm sorry that you are not feeling well. I hope you can stay in bed and rest with that water bottle! Yes - "slips" are different for all of us. I actually don't have "slips" which to me are accidents. When I have made a bad decision - a CHOICE (I don't believe it's EVER an accident!) to drink, it's not just one. Or two. Or even three. It's MONTHS. So I have to rule out slips entirely if I want to live a sober life.

vlad - Congratulations to you too on Day 3!

The morning is already slipping away from me!! I need to work out as early as possible today as my truck will be going to the shop for an oil change and once over. I have a lot on the agenda today so will not be on-line much. I've been on a productive streak and it feels good!! I hope it is not raining right at dinner time as I am planning to try my hand at grilling again - salmon with a ginger maple glaze. If it turns out reasonably good I might have to seek out a used copy of Al Roken's grilling cook book to buy.

Have a wonderful Booze Bustin' Day everyone!!

DG
Day 105

[A Work in Progress]

BOOZE BUSTERS 30 Day AF Hangover Free Challenge - Week of 9/1/08!

Here is a suggestion. REALLY think about moderation, and why you believe you wish to be able to moderate someday, despite your negative experiences with alcohol thus far. What is it about booze that you want it in your life - at least a little bit? What benefits does that have for you? What do you think are the risks? Is it worth it?

For myself, I realistically can't see myself succeeded at that - at least not on my own. While Topomax has worked to help people here at MWO (including RJ) with a moderation solution, I'm not willing to take prescription drugs for the purpose of being able to drink alcohol in a controlled fashion. Not saying that should be anyone else's choice - that's just how I see it for me.

DG that's exactly how I see it, too, for me. I think that I tend to react strongly to people discussing their thoughts of wanting to engage in "moderate" drinking, because I am so afraid that my own mind will pick up on that and say, "me too!" And I have done long periods being AF before, and always (till now!) gone back to drinking, after convincing myself I could keep it under control. Right now, I just can't understand what could be so damn important or even attractive about using alcohol, that would make it worth (a) the risk or (b) the apparently struggle involved in "modding." I have read a lot of posts around here from people who are engaged in moderate drinking (a few of them successfully), and many of them seem to be in the category of (as I have heard them describe it) "trying to mod." To me, "trying to mod" is no different than being a "problem drinker": a person who drinks, and sometimes gets trashed.

Maybe it is important just to have experienced the "trying to mod" part, before making a final decision. For me, the problem is that any episode of getting drunk can end in disaster, all the way up to killing myself or someone else while driving drunk, because for me, being drunk means I just don't know what the hell I will do. And any time I drink, I am in danger of getting drunk. It just isn't worth it. It isn't even attractive to me, any more.

wip

[SAUSAGE]

BOOZE BUSTERS 30 Day AF Hangover Free Challenge - Week of 9/1/08!

Hi everyone - day 3 for me today!

DG / WIP - thanks for your comments , Have either of you read the Allen Carr book on how to control alcohol. He makes a very good point in that trying to moderate is like waiting for when you can have that forbidden fruit ie "spending most of your life wanting a drink and not being allowed to have one" ie thoroughly miserable that's why he feels there is only one option - to quit altogheter. Restricting it is like being always on a diet and living for when you can have chocolate and being miserable the rest of the time.

I read the Allen Carr book at the start of my 108 day run and found it most helpful - dipping into it when I needed support / motivation. Your comments regarding counting days / abstention or not have really made me think.

Before I succeeded in my 108 day run I really didn't know what would happen if I ever tired to drink again - would I be able to moderate.

Maybe I could return to normal levels?

I obviously couldn't as within days I was back at 40-50 units a week. I think I had to fail to prove this to myself though.

I think I have to accept that I have to stop for good - like one of you said in an earlier post " you have too much to lose" I have to learn to get on with live and enjoy it to the full and get the most out of it and forget about alcohol.

This MWO community is really helpful as I finally have someone to discuss these thoughts / inner issues with. My husband (who interestigly is a medical Doctor ) thinks I don't have a problem - remember he is the one with 200+ bottles in the garage.!!!! Ever heard the quote - an alcoholic is someone who drinks more that their doctor!! My mother hasn't a clue what the problem is - she drinks about 10 units of alcohol a yr!! My children are too young to understand the issues (thankfully) the close friends / co-workers whom i've opened up to don't think I have a problem and that i'm neurotic. I'm never hung over in a morning, hold down a responisble job (am a health care professional too!!!) - seem to think it's fine to drink at these levels!?!?!? - many of them I guess actually do the same on the quiet!!

I would be happy to join AA to meet like minded people as I said in another thread but am relucant as my local meetings are in the building next to the health centre where I practice so most of the people there would probably be my patients !!!!:upset::H
Going further afield to somewhere where I am less well known isn't really an option at the moment with the little ones and trying to ecercise and everthing. That's why i've found the MWO forum so good as I can dip into it as and when I have the time.

One other question for everyone. Do you find when you try to abstain or you tell people that you are not drinking any more - that everyone tries to pursuade you to drink and that you don't have a problem - othe people trying to convince me that I can moderate and i'm missing out if I don't are my real weakness and what caused me to fail last time.

Thanks again everyone for your support / comments

[A Work in Progress]

BOOZE BUSTERS 30 Day AF Hangover Free Challenge - Week of 9/1/08!

Sausage, I understand the problem, I am not in a small town, but am engaged in health care delivery (clinical psychology), too, and am not yet ready to "come out" as a health care person "in recovery." Probably one day, I will be. I think I can help people even more, when I become able and willing to be honest (but not in a lot of detail) about having struggled with alcohol abuse. And when I do so, it will help keep in on track! A great deterrent, would not want anyone to see me drinking AFTER I let them know that I had quit because it had become such a problem!

As to people not understanding, and people urging you to drink: in some (not all) cases, those are the same people who also have drinking problems and do NOT want to hear from someone who is getting better (makes 'em feel bad, of course, I have been there, too). I find that my friends who are NOT problem drinkers are just fine (some of them probably relieved) that I am not drinking. They offer me a drink, I say "no thanks," and they are somewhat surprised, then quickly we move on and all is fine.

wip