AF Daily Sunday Nov 16

[A Work in Progress]

Good morning everyone! I'm feeling pretty reflective as I approach 4 months AF. The old "what next?" questions are rolling around in my mind...

As always, it seems, I have an ambivalent relationship with MWO. Very grateful for the help I have received here, and so happy to have made some good friends! At the same time, I often feel discouraged by the blend we have here on this site between people who are committed to being AF, and those who dearly want to drink moderately. I personally find the value placed on drinking to be a distraction in my own program of recovery... but I also know that it is, for some, possible to learn to drink moderately (even though usually it takes a LOT of effort and self-control), and for others it seems a stage that people need to go through (in the MWO world) prior to opening themselves up to the realization that it is a wonderful thing to be free from alcohol.

I have been thinking about other options as a long-term adjunct to MWO... AA maybe (although some of their teachings grate on my nerves!), possibly Women For Sobriety... We'll see.

I'm doing great today, and hoping everyone has a good day!

wip

[Cinders]

AF Daily Sunday Nov 16

Good Morning, WIP,

I think the a significant value of MWO is that people come here that would never step foot in an AA meeting. I know what you mean about the distraction of reading about moderation. For me it can be dangerous because after some AF time, my mind kind of wanders off to, hmm, maybe me, too?

However, I finally figured it out.

I truly believe this site has helped many who would not have had help any other way. So, I just accept it.

You are very right about those who join to moderate and then figure out AF is actually much easier and moderation is not possible for them.

But, we do have people who joined and moderate very successfully, and this is wonderful!! It means they stopped the progression before it dived into serious alcoholism.

Oh well. Just thinking about what you wrote and ruminating myself.

I am so happy for you that you are coming up on 4 months. That is wonderful.

I go to AA, myself, when I can. We don't have any other kinds of meetings where I live.

Everyone else to come, have a great Sunday.

I'll check back in later. Grandkids and I are going to hop in the car, run down to Hardees and get some seriously unhealthy food.

Love,
Cindi

[MormonMom]

AF Daily Sunday Nov 16

Good Morning All
Didn't make it on yesterday's thread and have yet to catch up on it.
WIP, I hear ya on the moderation thing. I know I cannot moderate, and yet I will allow myself to enter into Al's World as if I am a moderator. The difference between moderation and alcoholism reminds me of the fight between Good and Evil. The Evil side will tell you, "Ohhh come on! You can do it. Just a few." And yet you know it's wrong. You pretend it's right but then, after the fact, the realization of how wrong it is kicks in. I come to MWO each day because I want to be AF. Even when I fall to temptation, I still keep coming back in an effort to get AF. I'm glad MWO seperates the two so that communication between the right people can occur. Okay. Okay. I'm rambling. And the baby's screaming for me to pick her up out of her crib, so I must go.
I hope everyone accomplishes an AF day.

[DogLvr]

AF Daily Sunday Nov 16

Good Morning WIP, Cinders and MormonMom. I've successfully made it halfway through the month and am pretty proud of myself. Getting ready to head to the grocery store.

WIP - where do you see all the moderation comments? On other threads? I only come to this thread and sometimes the Just Starting Out thread.

Hope you all and everyone to follow has a great rest of your weekend.

[LVT25]

AF Daily Sunday Nov 16

Good morning (here) all!

I just have to report my success last evening! I actually went to sleep with a big smile on my face. I've decided I can't hide from a social life all the time any more. So I've been practicing WIP's advice about changing thoughts. We went to a friend's house to watch the Huskers beat Kansas State. It was fun. I was drinking iced tea. Had to take my youngest son to a birthday party, did this completely sober. Then we went to THE BAR to wait for some friends from out of town. I drank Diet Pepsi. Saw some people I haven't seen in awhile. Had some nice visits. It was fun. Picked up son at 9:30 completely sober. Hubby had been drinking beer since 2:30, he didn't even irritate me. It was fun, and I went to bed smiling.
Just gotta have the right attitude.
People are curious about me though. It's a little hard for them to understand I guess.

Gotta go get ready for Sunday school and Church.

ttyl :h

[A Work in Progress]

AF Daily Sunday Nov 16

Wow, LV, that is a GREAT story! Good for you! Attitude is everything... well, not "everything" maybe, but it's a whole helluva LOT!

Cinders, I totally agree. Also, MM... yeah. And/but, the thing is... alcohol is not demonic for everyone. It's a wonderful thing when we have figured out where we stand on that question, and when we realize it is NOT a moral question or (entirely) a matter of self-control. I prefer to think of it as a toxin, specifically that it is toxic to some of us. And it is a particularly dangerous kind of toxin BECAUSE we can see others use it, and not be harmed by it, AND because using small amounts of it renders our frontal lobes useless for controlling impulses and exercising good judgment. In the latter sense, I guess, "demonic" might really be an excellent label...

DogLvr, I read a lot of threads here. There are some great threads that are inhabited by a mix of people, some AF and some moderate drinkers... or those who are "trying to mod," as they say. And the mods threads have some excellent, thoughtful posts... so I check on on some of them, too!

wip

[retteacher]

AF Daily Sunday Nov 16

I know the ambivalence about reading about modding. That's primarily why I stay on this 30 day abs & the long-term abs forums only. I start reading about modding & begin to think I can do it too, but alas, I cannot.

I've actually licked the whole kitchen/cooking & drinking link. That was my main room to drink in. Even during the week when I was making an ordinary meal, I was constantly drinking. Cooking is second nature to me & doesn't take much concentration. I think that I broke that link when I've gone AF for long periods. My brain actually rewired itself.

The "reward" drinking is still an issue. We just had our g-sons overnight, & I feel kind of tired & strung out. It's fun but exhausting. I'm going to a brunch later, & I know there will be champagne cocktails. I'm visualizing drinking AF, but I know I'll feel deprived.

I hope everyone stays on track. I'm going to be AF today no matter what! Drinking won't add anything to my life. I'm going to take a shower now, & while I'm doing that, I'm going to review the pros of not drinking & the cons of drinking (the more gruesome the better).

Mary

[LVT25]

AF Daily Sunday Nov 16

"I totally agree. Also, MM... yeah. And/but, the thing is... alcohol is not demonic for everyone. It's a wonderful thing when we have figured out where we stand on that question, and when we realize it is NOT a moral question or (entirely) a matter of self-control. I prefer to think of it as a toxin, specifically that it is toxic to some of us. And it is a particularly dangerous kind of toxin BECAUSE we can see others use it, and not be harmed by it, AND because using small amounts of it renders our frontal lobes useless for controlling impulses and exercising good judgment. In the latter sense, I guess, "demonic" might really be an excellent label..."

Ok, I'm back for just a minute!! WIP, this says volumes in one paragraph! I don't know if it's the cd's (haven't listened to them in a while) or just time and effort, but I did not feel even a little bit deprived last night. The thought crossed my mind earlier that I could have a beer if I wanted to, but then hubby made the comment to someone that I didn't drink. Ok, I don't drink, that works. Too many reasons not to. Like I told someone last night--it's time I set a good example for my kids. I hope I don't sound cocky here. I know it's something I have to work on daily, but it IS getting easier. So for anyone struggling--don't give up. It is SO worth it, you'll see.

As for your thoughts of leaving MWO WIP. Some of the good people that were here when I started have left for the very same reasons you speak of. It's totally a personal decision. I for one think the program is a revolving circle of life. People come and go and help others as well as themselves, and some don't get better yet. I for one appreciate all of you input and would seriously miss you if you left.

[A Work in Progress]

AF Daily Sunday Nov 16

Thanks, LV! I'm not really thinking about leaving, but about getting some additional support, preferably face-to-face, elsewhere. There are things I don't like about AA, but what I really DO like are two things: one is that it is, like I say, face-to-face, so you meet people you can have lunch or a cup of coffee with; AND, there isn't anybody in those meetings who is "trying to mod"! Everyone in those meetings agrees that quitting alcohol is the only solution, for him or her.

wip

[Determinator]

AF Daily Sunday Nov 16

Top o the Sunday ABenators across the fruited plains!!

whew! for a moment I thought you were getting away from us WIP. now way! you've been officially adopted sister.

LVT, what a marvelous success story, kudos!

Mary the thought of a champers brunch brings back some really blurry memories...ugh. I used to really like to do the breakfast and lunch buffets at casinos but for only one reason: an endless supply of bubbly. arg... I'd always be the guy flagging down the waiter, pointing to my constantly empty glass. then the inevitable super-headache from all that cheep bubbly. what the heck was fun about that?

truthfully I used to be quite scared of the idea of being AF and now I'm scared of the thought of mods!
I realize I have so much to lose and I have just been a very lucky person to not have lost it all in my stuporous past ways. Looks like I better change my emotion to 'grateful'

be well my friends

[SAUSAGE]

AF Daily Sunday Nov 16

Hi everyone

Hope you are all having a good AF day. Reading the discussions above I too try and stay away from the moderation parts of the MWO forum - moderation scares me. I'd love to be able to do it, but I don't believe I can. Each time after a AF stint, the minute I've had one glass (or two) i've gone back to daily drinking for a while - (abstinence violation effect and all that) yet the longer I go AF the more I think about moderating and the more I think it would be easy to achieve. On this latest AF stint since coming back from Spain I climbed back on the waggon pretty quick and I do feel different this time, psychologically - like - why would I want alcohol anyway - what did it do for me?, particularly when I feel so well now and i'm really starting to see and feel the healthy benefits of being AF.

AA is something which does interest me very much - I know it's not for everyone but I know a number of people who have achieved great success with it. However it's just not an option at the moment as i've said before - local meetings are next door to the health centre where I work so it would probably be full of my patients!! and I haven't the time to go further afield to find another meeting where I would be less "well known". To be honest I find it difficult to get out in the evenings with 2 small children anyway and on the occasions that I do, I like to go and exercise.

These next few days will be a struggle, my husband is away for a few days for work reasons and I have the kids on my own. On the one hand it's good in that no-one is in the house in the evenings pursuading me to have the odd drink or two - and I can log onto MWO whenever I want witout worrying about him seeing it ( he knows I read the website as he's worked it out from "my history" on the computer and has come into the room and seen me on it . He thinks its' a complete waste of my time, but doens't know I post!!) However looking after the kids alone 24 hrs a day without a break is really hard work.(Tommorow I'm at work so they'll be at school / nursery 8-5.30 (I work mondays and fridays only) - so this is a bit of a break. Before I quit drinking I would drink more when I was on my own with the kids in the evening so tonight will be a challenge - I will probably be back here later!!

Will check back in later

sausage x

[Doggygirl]

AF Daily Sunday Nov 16

Happy Sunday afternoon absters! Another interesting topic today as usual. I know all to well the "lure" of moderations fantasies. At least for me they are fantasies because I cannot drink moderately - period. There have been times when I have been vocal on this forum in the sections specifical designated as Abstinence sections asking people not to discuss moderation in a way that is not healthy for people like me. I have been chastised for it. But that's OK. By design the MWO program has very broad appeal, so in fairness, I think it's important that the boundaries of the abstainer sections be respected if some of the active participants in the abstinance sections need that. OK - that's my 2 cents on that topic!

WIP, I think the reflections you are having are very normal. At least for me, around 3 months was a point where I started losing track of the daily milestones, and started being more aware of the monthly milestones. So now I find myself getting very reflective around those times. It's interesting - at the SMART face to face meeting this morning we were talking about the various programs out there, and the fact that there does not seem to be a single program that fits all needs. At least everyone at today's SMART meeting acknowledged that they incorporate different aspects of different programs into a custom solution. I guess nobody has all the answers yet to this sometimes complex problem.

Cinders - yes....the "maybe I can mod too" thoughts are exactly the danger zone I fall into.

LVT - I LOVE your Saturday story! What a success!! I think approaching sobriety with a good attitude can make all the difference in the world. It's a lot more fun to be sober if the sober cup is half full instead of half empty. That rocks! And I bet you felt great picking up your kids last night totally sober. No taking on additional risk factors to feel guilty about later.

Mary - have fun at your brunch! Remember that booze is a PUNISHMENT not a reward. How could hangovers be a reward?

Deter - like you, I consider myself extremely lucky that I didn't lose more to drinking.

Two weeks ago there was a car crash here locally. The only survivor was the drunk driver who hit the other vehicle with Mom & Dad & 3 children. I cannot even imagine how the drunk driver will ever be able to live with herself after this. Forget the legal punishments - I don't think I could survive knowing I caused deaths like that. I am very, very lucky that nothing like that has happened to me. Sometimes we talk about "slips" and such, and forget the horrible, unimaginable consequences that are possible when we drink. These sorts of stark realizations are another thing that keeps me happy to be sober.

Sausage, you hang tough!! You can make it while hubby is away. I know you can do it!!

Hello also to MM and DogLvr and anyone I missed and all yet to come!

I'm off to make what is supposedly THE best sugar free cheesecake on the planet. We shall see. If the basic version turns out good, then for the holidays I will make a Cranberry / Orange / Walnut version for family. But first I need to concentrate on the basic version and not get too far ahead of myself!

Have a great day all!

DG

[caysea]

AF Daily Sunday Nov 16

Hi All
WIP I know what you mean about this site and whats next .I feel that if it wasn't for this site I would not have been as successful as I have been.This site was very important in helping me stop drinking but now it is about living a sober life.The AF and MOD is not something I am at odds with.I have to be AF but to each their own.The aspect of someone talking about AL and their being able to control it and enjoy it at a place i come to for positive reinforcement is not good for me personally.I have searched out other places and one I find helpful is smart recovery.It has a lot of tools for people who are out of the grips of AL and living a sober lifestyle.It also has moderators and I haven't found the negative personal wars their.It does cover many addictions which at times I don't relate to.
So were does that leave me .I am taking the best from anywhere I can find it and using it for myself.I try to contribute when I can but my recovery is the most important thing to me. AA is a possibility in the future.It wasn't for me in the past but I think more so because I hadn't connected with a meeting that I liked.Now it might help to have some face to face.Just as I have changed so has my needs in regards to recovery.I will continue to look to the people who are further down this road than me for education and guidance.

Stay Healthy and Keep Fighting
AF 5-16-08

[Janice]

AF Daily Sunday Nov 16

Oh, just where has this weekend gone??? Haven't had hardly any MWO time so no time to catch up on posts!!! Just had to check in quickly though to say hi to everyone, Day 6 here!!! First swim today for weeks, maybe months, can't remember!!! Busy weekend in the kitchen practising meals for next weekend's dinner party. Know what you mean about drinking while you cook!!! Instead I've enjoyed my tonic water whilst standing over a hot stove!!!! Feel good, feel motivated, feel positive - and that is sooo important for keeping me on that AF path!!!

love to all

Janicexxx

[speedster]

AF Daily Sunday Nov 16

Hello to All, it?s day 7 being AF for me. No problems with the weekend. I have been at home and have not rewarded myself with AL as I would have before. I think the supplements are helping tremendously. I have not dealt with any social situations during these 7 days so no pressure from that angle.

I read a good deal of this thread earlier and have thought about my first try at moderating in ?06. I read about abstaining for 30 days first and didn?t do that. The problem for me with the moderating forums was I could then think about drinking every day. And I really wanted to break the habit of frequent drinking.

So this time I am abstaining. I believe I have recognized my increase in drinking over the last few years early enough that I can alter my behavior. If I choose to drink some day, then I will have to be very confident that I can stay within strict boundaries. But right now I love being AF.

I do know that I can NEVER drink alone ever again. I do know I can never use AL as a reward.

My utopian relationship with AL would be to only drink at a dinner party. I?ve never hung out at bars. My main troubles have been AL as a reward and not being mindful when drinking alone.

Without MWO I don?t know how I would have figured this out. Relating to others has helped me put my relationship with AL in perspective. I would never attend an AA meeting mainly because it?s too public. I like the anonymity of MWO. Plus my utopian plan wouldn?t fly with AA.

However if I reach my utopian relationship with AL I doubt I will be a dedicated poster to the moderating groups. It would allow me to think too much about AL. Under the utopian life, I would still post to the AF forum because being and thinking AF needs to be my focus.

I know for others my utopian plan is out of the question, and it remains to be seen whether it?s out of the question for me. If one dinner party spirals me into drinking alone then I will know without a doubt that I must be 100% AF forever.

Sorry for the length, it helped to write that down even if no one reads it in entirety. LOL

Sausage -hang in there, give yourself a foot rub or a facial or buy a new book.
LVT- good job on the Saturday night!
Spotty Dingo - did the dingo make it to the beach? I bravely groomed my dog with clippers for the 1st time and he looks okay. I rewarded myself with a walk in the woods with him instead of a walk combined with a pre- and post-walk beer. Yay?.