AF Daily, Friday, Dec. 5

[beatle]

AF Daily, Friday, Dec. 5

Seems to me a major theme here has been the "Never again" vs. the ODAT attitude, and it seems the conclusion has been that they are not really different approaches, but complimentary.

I must admit I started out in DG's court ("Never again") because I know once and for all I cannot ever, ever drink again. I know it deep in the marrow of my bones, in the innermost parts of my soul.

So ODAT seemed to me a sort of cop-out-- as DG said, a way to keep the back door open.

But now I see, thanks to you AA, and many others here, that these are two separate approaches to separate issues. So, yes, I see that ODAT is a good and useful thing. To keep us focussed on the here and now. To keep us from thinking overwhelming thoughts. ODAT.

And the Never Again approach is more like a state of being... A mentality that has to be achieved for some of us (myself, at least) to eliminate the little creeping thoughts that will eventually undermine us, no matter how strong our resolve.

SO-- Never Again, AND, One Day at a Time!

[Guest]

AF Daily, Friday, Dec. 5

I think there are few things that matter in life.

However what does matter is important.

I think it matters what our intention is (this is significant.. there is a massive difference between being tired of drinking and deciding you will do whatever it takes to beat it)
Then it matters that we want to be well.

Once we worry about these things properly.. not just skirting around it but really getting into I'm going to do this right then I think it is easier (ok, I know its not easy) to get into the action mode. I guess we can all have tools that help us, but I truly and honestly believe that you cannot buy sobriety as it is not for sale. To me, its getting to the core of your issues (personal) and then its getting healthy (eating and exercise) and of course its determination and staying power. I know some people use supps and meds.. and that may be the tool that helps them.. thats ok. I so solidly believe in exercise I"m rabid about it.. I've never exercised like this in my life before and i am fitter now than I have ever been (and look much better for it too)

I think when I looked at things this way, then it was clear what I should do. What you should do is up to you, I guess. But on this site.. who is it that has the longest sobriety? Do they appear sincere? What have they done? Same on the other sites that are out there... I dont want to be sober for a year.. I want to be happy for life.

There is a difference... and I will put in the work required because of my two basic beliefs.

Brigid

[beatle]

AF Daily, Friday, Dec. 5

DG, we cross-posted, so mine probably seems a bit of a non-sequitur.

It's a totally different subject, but I agree with the point you make about AA-- that the problem is not what it is and what it does, but its monopoly position in the Western world, which also deprives people from alternative opportunities for healing.

I don't want to get on soapbox about this, but this has always been my own problem with AA. I know many people whose lives were saved by AA. I don't refute all the good it has done. Still, like Christianity itself, lots of good and lots of, yeh, not-so-good. (never mind the Crusades, that's ancient history)...

Oh if only people could be open-minded and realise that there are many different ways to achieve a goal. And different strokes work for different folks.

And another thought-- I think I might be more likely to feel comfortable going to a SMART meeting than an AA meeting because of all the stigma attached to AA. It's become the place where hopeless drunks are banished to. The image is such in my experience, at least. Because, truth be told, it IS.

Whereas the alternative forums seem more like places where people who are trying to get a grip on their problem go of their own free will. More like a cool self-help group. I would say AA has a major image problem (mostly self-inflicted, in my opinionated view).

[AAthlete]

AF Daily, Friday, Dec. 5

beatle;487342 wrote: ....Oh if only people could be open-minded and realise that there are many different ways to achieve a goal. And different strokes work for different folks.

There are a few of us out there!

But I do know what you mean, and AA does expect you to follow their program in order to get better - although to be fair it is a program of attraction and not promotion.

At the end of the day we each need to decide which path to follow, and then follow it. I love it here because I get the best of both worlds, and in all honesty am really starting to dig this Monthly Abs forum!

[retteacher]

AF Daily, Friday, Dec. 5

On the subject of other people not believing we're alcoholics (if we are):

I drank alone & in secret. I too went out w/a few under my belt or drank before people came to my home. Usually, I didn't drive under the influence, but I must (ashamedly) admit that I have on occasion. We secret alcoholics learn to hide it well. I learned to cover up hangovers, never complain about them, & use a lot of makeup to hide the baggy eyes.

I do think that there are a few people who would admit to seeing me drink too much. Our friends & family are in denial just as much as the alcoholic is. I'm just so thankful that I'm out from under that cloud.

Mary

[momof3]

AF Daily, Friday, Dec. 5

I tried AA and it was not a good fit for me. I kept asking myself, "Is that all there is?" "Is this all we have in terms of helping people kick this disease? Then I found MWO and I read books such as "Sober for Good." And, I learned that there ARE other ways and there are lots of sober, happy people who have found there way. And, they are NOT "dry drunks."

Also, I have my father as a role model. He quit drinking on his own about 20 years before he died. Problem is, he never shared how he did it. We did not talk about such things in our family. It was a big fat pink elephant if you know what I mean.

[AAthlete]

AF Daily, Friday, Dec. 5

It's always been a little more to me then simply stopping drinking though. I know some people who stopped on their own, but they are angry in general and mean-spirited at times.

The true key to me is to quit drinking and be able to live a healthy, happy & productive life.

[beatle]

AF Daily, Friday, Dec. 5

Yeh, AA-- isn't that what it's all about-- it's not just cutting out the alcohol-- it is remaking your life.

Sometimes, very occasionally, I get all sentimental and even think my drinking problem has been a blessing, because of all I have been forced to learn, and all I have experienced and all I appreciate about life now. (Then again, I don't wish this curse on anyone!)

[Guest]

AF Daily, Friday, Dec. 5

Yes Beatle.. and AA.. I so agree.

Something important about opening our hearts and perhaps being more gracious or something. I always remember listening to Billy Connelly.. he said he just stopped.. well its easy to say that.. it takes more than not drinking to be happy, I would suggest.

I stand by my previous point.. if your intention is right and you want to be well, then AA could help you.. or crystal healing.. or God.. or anything really because you finally do what is right for YOU.

Brigid

[vinophile]

AF Daily, Friday, Dec. 5

late day check-in.....
Some really great discussions here. Often I spend so much time reading that I don't get a chance to post. It's great that this forum is so active at this time of year. We need all the support we can get. I love thinking about all these issues too.....

As far as ODAT or AF for life.......I liken my philosophy with that bumper sticker "think globally , act locally" I now must think LONG-TERM AF but I must act ODAT.
I love the rational recovery program but unfortunately there weren't many meeting in my area. I attended a few AA meetings a few years ago and they depressed me. It wasn't until Sep of this year that I found an AA meeting which really appealled to me. I now go to 2-3 meetings per week and love them. I am the "accidental AA member" as I could never have imagined that it would work for me.
I drove 45 minutes on tuesday to a women's AA meeting. I had never attended the meeting before but knew that I needed the support of a good meeting. I used mapquest for direction to the meeting and arrived at this huge church/congregation hall about five minutes late. When I entered the building there were about 15 doors and 3 different levels. I almost turned around and drove home.Finally I wandered down the hall and saw an office with several people inside. I entered and was about to ask for the "women's meeting" then decided what the heck....."where is the AA meeting". Very small thing but it was a big step.
As it turned out the meeting was the best one I have ever attended. Only 8 women were there and we went out for coffee afterwards. I will go next tuesday and wave at the people in the office as I pass by.
I do agree though that 12 step programs are offered as the "only way" by many medical professions. I have attended many meetings now and I will not go back to many of them because they did not hit the right chord with me. I go around and try them out as I would a restaurant, some I like and will return to and others I will never set foot in again.
I also love coming here!!!! This is the place I really realised that I needed to do something about my drinking. For that I am very grateful. I also love the info on supplements this site offered and continue to get my vits and supplements here. AA totally neglects that!!!
It's good to see you all here. I look foward to tomorrow's readings!!!!
Have a good night!!


Janet

[keeta]

AF Daily, Friday, Dec. 5

Late check in today. Day 19 AF.

Drinking 7-UP and ice, with a nice big wedge of lime. I am trying to convince myself this is a wonderful replacement, positive affirmations and all. Considering my husband is in the other room watching hockey and drinking beer, I think I am doing ok...so far.

I rented two movies tonight, Diminished Capacity with Matthew Broderic and Alan Alda, and Red Corner with Richard Gere. Got some chips made some dip...got some pretzels, my pop, and tea...so why is it I feel like I am missing something by not being able to crack a beer?

I know I won't stop at 3 or 4. I will drink until passout. I DON"T want to do that.

I will feel hung over tomorrow, and I have to open the store, and work alone for 8 solid hours. I DON'T want to feel shitty at work.

7 out of 10 times when I drink in the last 5 years or so, I fight with my husband, basically blaming him for every shitty thing in my life, even if he isn't responsible for it all. (another post, won't delve into my relationship) I DON'T want to be a bitch tonight.

My kids are all staying at friends tonight. I would like a more romantic evening, but he is drinking beer watching hockey, so that isn't going to happen. But I DON'T want to drink, just because I am disappointed things didn't work out as I'd hoped.

HA...bugger you AL.....you loser, cause even if I could, I DON'T WANT TO DRINK *also placed this on general boards, as I thought that is where I was posting LOL*

[Guitarista]

AF Daily, Friday, Dec. 5

Hi there Keeta. I remember going af once a while ago, in a house full of drinker's/smoker's/party er's etc....Like you seem to be doing, i just went to another part of the house to entertain myself...No way could i stay in lounge room amongst the reveller's, and not partake...I had to look within, and it got me through. Easier said than done, but it IS within us all.. G.

[keeta]

AF Daily, Friday, Dec. 5

Hi Guitarista,
lovely nick name by the way

It is dificult, and it often has me questioning myself, my ability to stay AF, if I wouldn't rather be "joining in" etc. I am going to stay AF tonight....no matter what, no matter how hard.
This too shall pass.

[Guitarista]

AF Daily, Friday, Dec. 5

Yep. It can be difficult depending on the environment too. For me, i had to go 'within', obviously to find and focus on why i wanted to stop. And i also had to be careful of being in a drinking, or 'partying' environment, whether that be at home, or elsewhere. Given your husband drinks, it would add a degree of difficulty, but it's not impossible. I was a big party boy, (still am, just af) and i did it in my old house..you can too if i could!...Anyway, it's great today/night your gonna be af...See?, You're tough!...All the best, and the fact you're trying...etc....etc....

[Determinator]

AF Daily, Friday, Dec. 5

Keeta, a lot of things I'd like to share but it's late and I'm fading. in short: the feeling of" missing out on something fades" away in time. In the next couple weeks you will feel more confidence and resolve will increase. your doing great!