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AF Daily: Thursday, December 11th

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    #16
    AF Daily: Thursday, December 11th

    Howdy.

    Always great insight from each of you. The internal dialogue with justifications and rationalizations and the concept of modding -- things I've had some experience with.

    For me, the continuing struggles even after I caused significant bad consequences when I drank, came from some fairly basic and simple desires. Desires that weren't evil or sinister but which shape most people's lives. I wanted to retain good and eliminate bad. If I could only eliminate the bad consequences, then all my drinking issues would be solved.

    Well that led to the ideas of moderation and control. Which, of course, I'd already demonstrated I can do neither. Oh, I CAN moderate. But whether any particular effort is successful always becomes nothing but a crap shoot. And, ultimately, I discover that what I really want is to drink beyond any moderate amount and get to that place that too often causes trouble and bad consequences. So even if I moderated successfully, it was an unrewarding experience for me, almost assuredly leaving me irritated and blaming the world for not allowing me to get where I really want to go. If I got to that point, with some alcohol already on board, with the judgment and the thinking no longer from a sober or rational perspective but from an active addiction with a mission to get to a place I both did and didn't want to get to -- well, the crap shoot becomes fish in a barrel for the addiction and off we go. For me, the idea of eliminating the bad consequences by any other decision than AF is pure folly.

    The personal responsibility and the choice -- for me -- must come from and remain a product of my thoughts and volition without any alcohol on board. That means "no thank you" and "I'd love some coffee (or any non-alcohol drink)" is simply the only way to eliminate the bad consequences. Because to do otherwise only invites a battle that can really never be won -- I'll either have an unrewarding moderation experience leaving me unsatisfied and internally angry and deprived (which will likely lead the active mission on to more crap shoot battles), or I'll be off and running to far beyond moderation and the ugly consequences that are proven to await me.

    There is a danger of having a successful and rewarding moderation experience. Or being self-fooled into thinking such was accomplished. That can lead to pats on the back and pleasant thoughts and what amounts to false proof for opening the flood gates to further crap shoots. All I can say is that from my too many efforts at investigating how many "successful" moderation episodes I can string together, the battle really isn't much fun, it can be exhausting and consuming, and there will most definitely be an unsuccessful and perhaps devastating effort around the corner, one that I might not walk away from with my life or with any dignity, or, worse, one that I might cause serious harm others, or both.

    I'm not one to preach, as I believe there are those who are afflicted who can develop a successful moderation plan, and I believe each has a personal path to follow that deserves respect if pursued sincerely toward the elimination of the bad in their lives. But one big and special gift I will give myself this holiday season (and beyond) will be to not activate or engage the alcohol battle. It's a loser for me.

    Have a great day all.

    Comment


      #17
      AF Daily: Thursday, December 11th

      Tiresias, that was a wonderful post. It certainly reflects my own experience. I like the phrase "crap shoot"! That's certainly how my own "moderate drinking" was... you just never knew what would happen, or how much I would drink (except that, towards the end, it was very rarely "moderate")...

      Those occasional "successful moderation" episodes kept me stuck, for a long, long time, with the hope, or wishful thinking, or outright delusion... that I could control it whenever I wanted to.

      Truth is... I really didn't want to. I wanted to get wasted, and I often did.

      Comment


        #18
        AF Daily: Thursday, December 11th

        Tiresias;492442 wrote:

        ....There is a danger of having a successful and rewarding moderation experience...
        I would argue that is the case when we are initially working on our program, but if we are able to undergo the psychological changes needed to achieve a lasting sobriety eventually even those experiences can turn into afterthoughts.

        Maybe it is because I am a 1 1/2 removed from my last drink, but when I reflect back I don't remember the times I was able to successfully moderate - I just remember the path of destruction that alcohol left. Maybe that is part of it - simply ingraining into our minds the terrible things that alcohol took from us rather then the perceived enjoyment that it brought to us.
        Sobriety Date: June 15, 2007 -- "It's not having what you want, It's wanting what you've got...."

        Comment


          #19
          AF Daily: Thursday, December 11th

          AAthlete;492462 wrote: I would argue that is the case when we are initially working on our program, but if we are able to undergo the psychological changes needed to achieve a lasting sobriety eventually even those experiences can turn into afterthoughts.

          Maybe it is because I am a 1 1/2 removed from my last drink, but when I reflect back I don't remember the times I was able to successfully moderate - I just remember the path of destruction that alcohol left. Maybe that is part of it - simply ingraining into our minds the terrible things that alcohol took from us rather then the perceived enjoyment that it brought to us.
          Yes, -- probably a poor choice of words on my part, generated by some of my mental masterbation alluded to yesterday.

          Comment


            #20
            AF Daily: Thursday, December 11th

            Some interesting reading here yesterday and today. As I prepare for this meeting tomorrow about drinking and our youth, I was trying to remember the time line of my drinking history.
            This doesn't really go along with the subject today, but I wanted to write it down somewhere, so i just thought I'd share it.
            I remember my parents having card parties. They were never big drinkers (my mom's dad was a mean alcoholic) but they had some friends that were. There were a couple of marriages that broke up because of it. So I knew it could be bad. They didn't talk to me about it much, but my brother had gotten in trouble with AL (MIP's) and I remembered some of the things they told him (and me later in life) about the dangers of alcohol and the genetic factor. Anyway, I also remember trying some beer with my friend because her dad let her. We were probably 5th or 6th grade. One time she got sick from it and we all thought it was funny. Another friend wouldn't even try it--we thought that was weird. Then I remember 8th grade I started dating a sophomore. That's when it all started downhill I think. We would go out on the weekends and drink cheap wine. Later on during one of my many diet phases, I replaced food calories with wine calories. Some friends and I started stashing bottles in ditches and collecting them after school and drinking them. I got suspended from school my sophomore year for drinking before a school dance. I tried pot. I remember at a post prom party my friend's dad had to ask my boyfriend to take me home--he carried me out. Fast forward to college. Awesome--drinking age was 19 and I was finally legal. I began smoking. A friend I met there died due to alcohol poisoning, but no one talked about it. I broke up with my boyfriend, he was drinking vodka during the day. I found a new boyfriend. We drank almost every night in college. It was so much fun. After college. Meet new friends--we have so much in common--we love to drink to have fun!! I remember one night in the bar, I puked outside and came back in and continued drinking!!! Marry boyfriend. Guess what--he's a bad alcoholic! Marriage lasted 4 years.
            OMG--I could go on and on. I think I will in my journal. No need to put you guys through all of this.:H
            Will be interesting to see what can be done to discourage drinking in our young society.
            _______________
            NF since June 1, 2008
            AF since September 28, 2008
            DrunkFree since June 1, 2008
            _____________
            :wings: In memory of MDbiker aka Bear.
            5/4/2010 In loving memory of MaryAnne. I pray you've found peace my friend.
            _______________
            The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you.ray:

            Comment


              #21
              AF Daily: Thursday, December 11th

              Tiresias - your post was spot on. I fully remember all the same thoughts going through my head as well - the justifications for having 'just one more.' I also need to be fully realistic with myself and understand that those thoughts may and in fact probably will come up somewhere down the road and I need to be prepared when they do.

              LTV - it really is amazing to be able to look back and see the progression, isn't it? The funny thing is even if you could go back and tell yourself at some point to 'stop now!' would you have stopped? Seems like we always need to learn some lessons the hard way, doesn't it?
              Sobriety Date: June 15, 2007 -- "It's not having what you want, It's wanting what you've got...."

              Comment


                #22
                AF Daily: Thursday, December 11th

                Many people in society do sucessfully moderate...however, most people are not alcoholics...there in lies the difference. Even attempting to mod for me is a form of self torture. It is easier to just never pick up that first drink. Because that first drink ALWAYS ALWAYS becomes a bottle. I am not even stressing over the holidays. I am treating them like I would any other time of the year. AND I would like to remember this years festivities.
                Forever loved, forever missed Papa Bear

                Comment


                  #23
                  AF Daily: Thursday, December 11th

                  I just got back from child care w/my g-son. I met up w/another g-ma for a playdate. We had such a great time. All the way through it, I couldn't help thinking how different it would have been if I'd had drinks the night before. Remorse, guilt, self-recrimination are standard for me the next day & completely ruin it.

                  As far as "I hope I can." I've also said, "I'll try to stay sober at the next event." Trying also suggest I might fail. I don't say that anymore. What I'm saying today is:
                  "I'm having a dinner party tomorrow. There will be wine there. I won't be drinking any, because I do not drink."

                  That feels like a statement of purpose & responsibility.

                  I can't tell you all how much this thread means to me. It keeps me going on the path to complete & long-standing sobriety.

                  Love, Mary
                  Wisdom, Courage, Strength
                  October 3, 2012

                  Comment


                    #24
                    AF Daily: Thursday, December 11th

                    APB on Mack....anyone see him lately?
                    Was an alcoholic yesterday, an alcoholic today and will still be an alcoholic tomorrow..... but I'm in charge now!

                    Comment


                      #25
                      AF Daily: Thursday, December 11th

                      Hi again everyone - I've re read the thread, I'm feeling more positive than when I started off this morning. I will not drink tomorrow at my work Christmas lunch because I do not drink. I will check back later tomorrow and let you know how I did!
                      Goodnight all

                      Comment


                        #26
                        AF Daily: Thursday, December 11th

                        Hi all...Great thread again...I love it! For five years I have walked my dogs (now dog) basically the same route around my neighborhood. Never in my life would I have entertained the possibility of "jogging", yukk!!! But a couple of weeks ago I started getting bored with this same walk, so I decided I COULD jog (slowly) up to the next light post...then walk to the next...and jog to the next and so forth. Let me just say, this has ended up being my new morning ritural, and I am finding that it gets easier and easier, and I am able to jog further.

                        Heres my point, I set a "goal" and achieved that "goal" no matter how small. That gave me encouragement to continue. And now with practice, my "goal" is becoming easier. I now relate this to how I deal with AL. This felt really liberating...yep it did.

                        R2C
                        Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. --Confucius
                        :h

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                          #27
                          AF Daily: Thursday, December 11th

                          SAUSAGE;492757 wrote: Hi again everyone - I've re read the thread, I'm feeling more positive than when I started off this morning. I will not drink tomorrow at my work Christmas lunch because I do not drink. I will check back later tomorrow and let you know how I did!
                          Goodnight all
                          Well, we already know how you are going to do on the AL front. So please make sure and get ALL of the gossip, and bring us the juicy details!!!!!

                          Another great thread today! I love the "living under the influence" analagy - perfectly put. And I also love all the insights on moderation, which is OUT for me too (as I know from experience). Many good ways of looking at it.

                          Wish I could write a lot more because this is all so great. But it's been a busy (but good!) day so far, and I have to paint my nails for the Big Party tonight. Will have gossip later.

                          I'm not drinking tonight. So don't worry about me if I don't check tomorrow until later in the day. The Grand Prix figure skating final starts in South Korea at 3AM my time. I will probably get a chance to say a quick hello between events, but if the wedgies and sequins and man boobs and stuff are outrageous....well, a girl has to have SOME priorites.

                          Somebody(s) at this bash tonight is going to get drunk and do something really embarrassing. I'm SO happy it will not be me.

                          DG
                          Sobriety Date = 5/22/08
                          Nicotine Free Date = 2/27/07


                          One day at a time.

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                            #28
                            AF Daily: Thursday, December 11th

                            Wow, R2C. Good for you!
                            AF Since April 20, 2008
                            4 Years!!!
                            :lilheart:

                            Comment


                              #29
                              AF Daily: Thursday, December 11th

                              R2C, very nice, I am very impressed. When I started, it was telephone pole to pole. Bet next summer it will be a 5k.

                              It feels so great to make progress. What ever the hurdle may be, it is so sweet.
                              Was an alcoholic yesterday, an alcoholic today and will still be an alcoholic tomorrow..... but I'm in charge now!

                              Comment


                                #30
                                AF Daily: Thursday, December 11th

                                So DG, how about you, heard talk of you mixing it up. 5k next summer??? If so, I'm in!!
                                Was an alcoholic yesterday, an alcoholic today and will still be an alcoholic tomorrow..... but I'm in charge now!

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