My Early AA Thoughts

[Doggygirl]

My Early AA Thoughts

Hi Joanna. I know I hung onto a hope - no matter how small - that I could somehow find a way to control my drinking and not have to give it up. That "Al" voice in my head has always been busy "working me." I have no idea whether YOU can or cannot ever drink moderately - heck it's enough work for me trying to keep my own brain on the right track LOL!

Some food for thought....

Have you ever tried to control your drinking in certain situations? i.e. making "rules" such as "I will only have 3 drinks at this party - no more." or "I will not drink today until after 5PM. or "This week I will not drink until the weekend." Stuff like that. How did it work? I think it's not only important to consider whether you were able to successfully keep your deals with yourself, but how did it FEEL? Were you constantly thinking about drinking and when you could "start?" If your "deal" involved drinking but only to a limit (i.e. 3 drinks) how did that work? If you stopped after 3, how did it feel? Were you "possessed" with wanting more? Or able to comfortably switch to a non-AL beverage and move on without thinking much about it?

If I'm honest with myself, I tried all that deal making zillions of times, days, weeks, for many years. I knew I had a problem and I did NOT want to give up AL - no way. Admitting I was an alcoholic would have meant "the party is over" and my AL brain wanted no part of that. BUT...I was completely unsuccessful in making and keeping deals and rules. On the rare occassion I set the bar low enough where I DID actually keep a deal, I was possessed with wanting to drink more. So it was never comfortable.

When I first found MWO, I consciously had decided I needed to stop. But the mod option sat there in my subconscious, and there was a time where I thought that prescription drugs to control the desire sounded good to me. (for those who do this successfully - I have no issue with that. I just realized that it was beyond what *I* am willing to do to "be able to" drink moderately, assuming that would even work for me)

Think about someone you know who is truly a moderate drinker. Not someone who has to "work" to control their drinking - someone who you are close enough to in order to KNOW that they don't over drink, and don't have to "work" at it.

For me, I have many examples but the closest to me is Mr. Doggy. He can take it or leave it. He probably drinks on average 4 - 6 beers per month. Some months probably less. Rarely ever more. He usually has A (one) beer on Saturdays after dog training with the guys. Sometimes 2. Sometimes none. I recall ONE time this winter where he had a beer at home. I cooked sausage and cheese stuffed jalopeno (sp) peppers on Super Bowl sunday and he said "a beer would taste good with these." He had to look in the fridge to see if we even had any beer. (I have not been much of a beer drinker since college, but the alkie in me knew that we HAD beer, and EXACTLY how many were in the garage fridge!)

I know for sure that I can never, ever be like that. If I drink at all, then drinking takes over my mind. I'm either doing it or thinking about it most of the time. I have accepted that for me, that will never change.

I really recommend that anyone trying to figure out if mods is even an option - read the mod posts here. It is pretty easy to figure out who is truly successful at moderating their drinking. How much work do they go through from what you see in your posts? Engage in discussion - see whether you think their strategies would work for you HONESTLY.

When I returned to drinking under the "I can have one now" umbrella, I did not do it in a well considered way. My brain wanted to drink that day, and I bought the argument on the spot. Then I constructed a "moderation" thing in my head that wasn't a "real" strategy - it was just an excuse to feed my addiction.

I think the key to all of these decisions is raw, brutal honesty with ourselves. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what other people think - it's what we KNOW to be true deep down inside.

Not sure if this ramble is making any sense, but there you have it!!

DG

[peacenik]

My Early AA Thoughts

moderation just sounds like such a difficult time consuming way to live...for me, it's easier to not drink at all and not have to think about it!
of course i think about al, but not obsessively...well ok, occasionally al takes over and i have to react and change my situation, but you know what i mean...

[retteacher]

My Early AA Thoughts

DG: It makes perfect sense to me! I made rules. I thought I could mod. What I've discovered is that normal drinkers don't think about moderating...they just do.
-They leave drinks unfinished.
-They split drinks because they don't want to whole thing.
-They don't count how much they drink.
-They're not focussed on the bottle & when they can pour another one.
Mary

[Waiting for his way out]

My Early AA Thoughts

I have read all the posts and they help me, each time, understand a little more about my husband. He too also believed for a while in the ability of moderating, I think sometimes he still does.
But, from a non-drinker looking from the oustide in, I realized this was not an option for him. At least not now or not in the near future.
I used to tell him that putting two beers in the fridge.. one for now and one for later was not a good step. It meant to me he was already thinking about drinking two beers long before he even started the first one.
Of course for several weeks, since he drinks and not me, I just did not know what I was talking about according to him.
The sad result was always the same, he started with one beer, two beers and quickly went back to the large bottle of vodka.
anyway, just wanted to tell you how much your point of view helps the family member who participate in MWO get through the tough times.
W

[A Work in Progress]

My Early AA Thoughts

Good posts.... it points out, again, something that I have begun to think of as a "test," of sorts: the more we want to drink, the more important alcohol is to us, the more we think and worry about it... the less likely it is that we will ever be able to reliably, consistently, control our consumption. If alcohol is some precious substance to us, something we are always aware of (like DG knowing how many beers are in her refrigerator, even though she was not a beer drinker)... then we are not like "normal" drinkers who truly can "take it or leave it," and it is very likely that we never will be.

I know that my own attitude toward alcohol was different than that of most of my peers, very early on. I thought about alcohol more, gravitated toward it more, drank larger quantities, and drank more often. My peers in college sometimes drank too much, also... but for most of them, alcohol just didn't matter as much as it did, to me. I have a strong genetic predisposition to alcohol addiction, it is expressed neurologically and behaviorally in an unusual degree of affinity for (or sensitivity to) alcohol... and I believe my own drinking behavior over the years made the situation much worse. Even if there might have been a time when I could have gotten genuine control over my consumption... that time is long past.

[Joanna]

My Early AA Thoughts

WIP I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on 'genetic predisposition' to alcoholism.

Jo

[A Work in Progress]

My Early AA Thoughts

Jo, one of early pieces of research that really opened my eyes to the idea that there is a fundamental difference between alcoholics and "normal drinkers" was the finding that alcoholics are much more likely to vividly remember their first drink of alcohol than are non-alcoholics. When I read that, years ago, I realized that my own early experiences of drinking alcohol were very compelling positive experiences; I tremendously enjoyed the sensation that alcohol gave me, and I sought it out more often than my friends did. I truly think that there is/was something fundamentally different in my own brain function/structure that caused this rapid affinity for alcohol... and that this is true, in general, for those who have a particular variant (or possibly one of several different variants) in the sets of genes that we inherit. Both my mother and my father were alcoholic...

It also appears likely that we can exacerbate our genetic "load" by doing what, essentially, comes naturally to us: drinking too much, too often.

Possible differences in the genes that express neurotransmitter function are being identified in those who are alcohol-dependent... this work is very early, very preliminary.

Here's a nice short summary from a recent overview (in a NIAAA online publication) about the genetic contribution to alcoholism:

Studies in recent years have confirmed that identical twins, who share the same genes, are about twice as likely as fraternal twins, who share on average 50 percent of their genes, to resemble each other in terms of the presence of alcoholism. Recent research also reports that 50 to 60 percent of the risk for alcoholism is genetically determined, for both men and women (2?5). Genes alone do not preordain that someone will be alcoholic; features in the environment along with gene?environment interactions account for the remainder of the risk.

Research suggests that many genes play a role in shaping alcoholism risk. Like diabetes and heart disease, alcoholism is considered genetically complex, distinguishing it from genetic diseases, such as cystic fibrosis, that result primarily from the action of one or two copies of a single gene and in which the environment plays a much smaller role, if any. The methods used to search for genes in complex diseases have to account for the fact that the effects of any one gene may be subtle and a different array of genes underlies risk in different people.

[AAthlete]

My Early AA Thoughts

Love the discussion that goes on in this thread. Makes my heart go all pitter-patter! :l

[Willie09]

My Early AA Thoughts

Thanks to all for the responses concerning getting a sponsor.

DG - Good point. Never occurred to me that folks weren't suppose to approach you about being a sponsor, but it makes sense. They don't want to push anything on you that you don't want.

WIP - So far, I been kinda using the approach you mentioned. Just listening and watching people interact at the meeting trying to find a good fit.

I will ask the chairperson about a temp sponsor and keep posting.

[retteacher]

My Early AA Thoughts

Everyone: I too like this thread very much. I went to a meeting last night. Very powerful. A lot of the discussion was about the denial all of us alcoholics go through.
-"I can't be an alcoholic because I never lost my job."
-"I can't be an alcholic because I never got arrested."
-"I can't be an alcholic because I never drank in the AM."
-etc.

It really struck home w/me.

Mary

[vinophile]

My Early AA Thoughts

Good morning all,
I,too, find this thread most helpful. After reading my "daily recovery readings" (thanks so much AAthlete) I come to this thread and take notes. Then I bring up some of these points at a meeting or discuss some of them with my sponsor
WIP, I loved what you said about some of your thoughts on a sane life.
Mary, I love what your sponsor has you think and write about. You are blessed to have him.
Back later with notebook in hand.

Janet

[Doggygirl]

My Early AA Thoughts

Hi everyone! Great posts and food for thought as usual.

I have a question for you longer term AAers. The subject of non-al beer came up today in a casual conversation after the AA meeting I attended. I got the impression that AA might have a strong position that drinking non-al beverages is a no no. I'm wondering if anyone knows if AA has an official position. That part is mainly out of curiosity.

In the interest of honesty, which is really important to me (if I'm going to do this, I might as well do it with 100% honesty), does AA have an official position on consumption of
NA products such as beer, which DO contain some alcohol, and whether consumption impacts time of sobriety?

I've never even given a second thought to my occasional (and it is quite rare) NA beer consumption as it pertains to my sober time. But I wonder if AA has an official position about that and if so, if I need to figure out my last NA beer and adjust my sobriety date for AA purposes....

I completely understand that beverages such as NA beer and wine CAN be triggers and that it's potentially playing with fire in terms of potential ease of movement to the real thing. I haven't been much of a beer drinker since college, so NA beer has not to date held very high appeal to me. It's been more of an aid getting through some social situations that involve booze and that I cannot avoid. Wine was BIG for me and I suppose I'm lucky that the NA wines I have tried all taste like crap to me and I've had no urges other than to throw them out.

Anyway...this all got me to thinking that I need to keep a watchful eye on this and make sure to guage the "importance factor" that WIP has been talking about. (interesting stuff WIP and it makes total sense to me that the more important alcohol, or in the case of this question "near beer" level alcohol is, the more dangerous it is...)

I hadn't thought about this before so now I've got something new to consider for today. How WOULD I feel about a decision to not drink NA beer any more? Do I care? I don't think I do, but the situation is interesting enough to me where I will at least think about it some more.

Thoughts? Facts? (any official AA positions)

DG

[peacenik]

My Early AA Thoughts

i only have thoughts about na beer for what it's worth...i feel now that i just don't want the extra calories. i too didn't have a "beer problem" so it doesn't trigger me, but the na wine (awful as it is) could if it was in a wine glass (i love a wine glass...). i've had a couple of na beers in social situations and really, it just tasted funky and made me think a diet soda or sparkling water would be a better option.
i would almost bet that aa has a no na drinks policy, because i bet it really is a trigger for alot of folks.
interesting question...

[A Work in Progress]

My Early AA Thoughts

I don't think that AA does "official policies" for stuff like non-AL beer/wine. But you will certainly find that most members frown on it, and will seem official (or even officious) when they are telling you that it is a bad idea. They might even tell you that it is the equivalent to relapse, or not being sober, to drink it. Some even frown on psychiatric medications... antidepressants... Also, you might run into a problem if you have a sponsor who strongly disagrees with something that you are doing, that seems perfectly fine, to you.

AAth will know this better than I, it's been a while for me, but I really do think that the only "official policies" of AA are the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions.

[AAthlete]

My Early AA Thoughts

DG, certainly AA has no position on NA beer, but I'm guessing that you will find (as others have said) that it is generally frowned upon.

My thoughts on it, which certainly don't speak for AA in general, is that ANY kind of alcohol that I but into my system will put me on a slippery slope in terms of drinking again. I may not like beer, or wine, or vodka, but my mind has a way of twisting things.... After all, I didn't drink because I liked the taste of an alcoholic drink, I drank because of the effect that it produced. That effect is how I dealt with all the crap in my life, and AA as a program showed me how to let go and subsequently deal with all that crap.

My question for you would be, why do you drink it in the first place? Guess there could be lot's of reasons - wanting to fit in social situations, liking the taste of it (although you yourself said it generally tastes like crap), etc. My experience, and I can only speak for me, is that in working the AA program I learned how to be comfortable in social situations without the aid of a 'crutch' (for better or worse that's what it is, right)?

I don't think that you need to adjust your sobriety date because you have had some NA beer, but I also think that if true sobriety and happiness are your goals from your AA program then you may want to think about letting go it. Just my $.02 and at the end of the day the decision is yours.