My Early AA Thoughts

[A Work in Progress]

My Early AA Thoughts

I went to another meeting last night, and sure enough there was someone I know there, from my professional world. I knew he had been in trouble with his addiction years before... and there he sat. I spent part of the meeting deciding how to handle it... just find him after the meeting and start talking? It was a big meeting and I did not think he had noticed me. That's what I did... and I am glad. Turns out that he was just returning, like me, after a long absence. And he said that he, too had a hard time coming back, because of his embarrassment. And I talked to another guy, similar situation... he said it took him 9 months being AF again (after a long relapse) before he came back to AA...

It reminds me once again of how UN-true it was, when I told myself that it was OK to start drinking again, because I could "always go back" to recovery (to AA, in my case). Which reminds me, once again, how UN-true it will always be, for me, to think that it would ever be OK for me to start drinking again.

I got a temporary sponsor last night, it's a big group and I will need help finding a permanent one. This woman is younger than me, but seems very solid, and I like what I have seen of her attitude. We haven't yet had a one-on-one meeting, but I think she's thinking that I need to do 90 meetings in 90 days. Well, maybe I will. I'm not yet at the point of committing to that yet. I did it the first time around, though, and it was a very good move, helped me get to know people and get very thoroughly involved in AF "culture."

[Doggygirl]

My Early AA Thoughts

Good morning Mary and WIP. WIP does it feel like a bit a relief that you ran into someone you know professionally, and now have "that" behind you? I hope so as I'm sure that is a concern especially in your field. Alcohol knows no boundaries does it. I love how you put your UN-truths.

I had always heard of the 90 meetings / 90 days thing. I figured that part of the purpose for that is to really dig in, get to know some people, take a "crash course" so to speak. I figured if I were going to "check out" AA and find out first hand if it's for me, then I should start out the way AA recommends people start out with it - 90 meetings in 90 days. I'm happy with that decision. I'm not sure how I would feel if I had left that "open" and then a sponsor "told me too." Or maybe I decided in advance to do it so I could avoid it being a directive (or STRONG suggestions...whatever that would be called). I'm cagey that way. (not always a good thing I suppose - that desire / ability to stay one step ahead of things. Sure did NOT work with AL now did it? Hmm...)

Today's topic was interesting, and somewhat relevant to the question of why AAers are still there - "recovering" after many many years. The premise is that the same way of thinking (in general, very self centered type thinking) that causes trouble with alcohol ALSO causes trouble in a lot of other areas of life. A couple of the old timers described a process of drifting away much like WIP has described previously before relapse. Then even if that didn't result in drinking, it resulted in moving away from an "outward" focus to a more self centered focus that led to problems that they don't have when they stay centered spiritually.

I'm starting to view AA more as something like a church or a hobby club or even a "diet." It's not a "you go until you are fixed" sort of thing. It's an on-going sort of thing like my Dad goes to church or like my husband goes to dog training (there is always something new to work on - you are never "done") or that I have to treat my "diet" if I am to keep the weight off (has to be a life style change, not a temporary change - a return to the old ways will lead to the old results). I'm OK with that. I too was always curious about "why do those people still "need" AA after 20 years? When will they finally recover?" They are there because they WANT to be there. They like the positive changes that have taken place in their lives based on the work they have done within the AA program.

From a personal growth perspective, one man had to make a decision that was obviously difficult for him and his family related to a pet. As an animal lover, in my head I immediately jumped on my high pios horse and judged him harshly. It's a good thing that there is order to these meetings so I could not just blurt out what I was thinking. After listening to a few other people talk, I realized that I was being a judgemental asshole, and that is NOT my place nor is it the person I want to be. I have a lot of work to do. I'm glad that thought stayed in my head before it came out my mouth.

I really hope that these folks become my friends one day.

Hope everyone is having a good one.

DG

[spedteach]

My Early AA Thoughts

I agree about your comment about all alcoholics having these problematic character defects. But in step 7 don't we humbly ask god to remove them? They sure as hell seem to persist.

[A Work in Progress]

My Early AA Thoughts

Spedteach, you have hit on a couple of my major (but, I think, not fatal) disagreements with standard AA doctrine. All human beings have bad habits and display less than ideal functioning, or what might be called "character defects." I believe that one of the less helpful aspects of AA, is the way it promotes the belief that people with alcohol dependency are not people of good character, or that we have more "character defects" than those who are not alcohol dependent.

I also happen to believe that "humbly asking" something outside of ourselves to "remove" any of our less-than-effective behavioral patterns, or interpersonal and emotional patterns, is not going to do a whole lot of good. Others who have different religious beliefs than I do might very well disagree with me, here. Lots of AA people would be included in that group. But I think all of them would also agree that it is essential that we identify areas in our typical functioning that we need to work on, and take the initiative to do the work, without hoping that magically things will just change for us.

Maybe the bottom line, for me, is this: Nobody is perfect, with or without alcohol problems. But for those of us who are alcohol-dependent, it is especially crucial to work on how we manage and deal with our thinking and our emotions; and to be very careful with our behavioral choices... because poor choices in these areas can lead us very quickly down the road to relapse. And one of the most helpful things about AA (again, in my opinion) is that it strongly encourages us to do this kind of work...

[spedteach]

My Early AA Thoughts

DG,
Just wanted to say hello again. Found an old post from last June where you're congratulating me on almost having 60 days. Well I blew that one and have been thru hell the last 9 months. Sober this morning.
Interested in your post about AA. The HP thing drives me nuts. Anything can be your hp, but that anything is also supposed to remove all your character defects! Also rehab in the US is 12 steppin/aa all the way, there are very few alternatives so if your don't like it, you're sunk.
Anyway, I will stay in touch. You must almost have a year. I've got 3 days this AM but who the hell is counting.

[Doggygirl]

My Early AA Thoughts

spedteach;573515 wrote: DG,
Just wanted to say hello again. Found an old post from last June where you're congratulating me on almost having 60 days. Well I blew that one and have been thru hell the last 9 months. Sober this morning.
Interested in your post about AA. The HP thing drives me nuts. Anything can be your hp, but that anything is also supposed to remove all your character defects! Also rehab in the US is 12 steppin/aa all the way, there are very few alternatives so if your don't like it, you're sunk.
Anyway, I will stay in touch. You must almost have a year. I've got 3 days this AM but who the hell is counting.

Hi Spedteach. I'm sorry to hear that the road has been rocky but it's terrific that you are back with 3 days sober.

I've got issues with "is there really God" and some other things with AA. I don't particularly like the term "character defect" but I can't really comment on that one as I have not yet studied the 7th step to help me put it in context. I can imagine that having AA (or anything) shoved down my throat would not be very pleasant for me (i.e. court mandated AA or rehab mandated AA)

For me personally, I finally decided to open my eyes/mind/heart to see what IS there in AA that will help me stay sober and achieve a quality sober life. Before I was tossing out the baby with the bath water - and the only one who loses when I do that is me.

Whether I personally believe in God or not, I know plenty of people who do (my brother is a former Methodist Minister who now aspires to be a Christian Orthodox Priest and he would already be one, if his wife had not been previously married). None of the "faithful" that I know believe that you ask for things, and then God just hands it to you. So even if there IS God, I don't think it's as simple as "take away my desire to drink" and it just happens...or "take away my character defects" (geez I dislike that term!) and it just happens. (I would prefer terms such as "selfishness" "weaknesses" or things like that..)

Not sure how helpful that is other than to say that I'm not 100% "there" with a faith in God per se, but I can see some good results from AA in the people around me at the meetings.

One thing is for sure - no program will work if we don't believe it's helping (or can help), I don't think. I just know that for myself, I CANNOT DRINK and have any kind of life. So I'm willing to try any reasonable means to not drink, and to LIVE.

Best wishes to you - it's good to see you back.

DG

[gyco]

My Early AA Thoughts

hi all,specially you dog lady for starting this thread,it is nice to see new people and old entertaining the thot of AA,if it werent for a group of people ,back in 1934,we might not of met at M W O,Jewel just came up with a different concept,i dont no if you know,the reasoning behind a religioos theory and agnostic theory,it was just that,entertain your own thought,bill was agnostic and bob was a very religious man,dog lady did you read the 164 pages,it is recommended to read it often,finish it and read it again,i read it in treatment.it had a strange affect on me,in there,i wish you all well,have a wonderful day gyco

[peacenik]

My Early AA Thoughts

A Work in Progress;573513 wrote: Spedteach, you have hit on a couple of my major (but, I think, not fatal) disagreements with standard AA doctrine. All human beings have bad habits and display less than ideal functioning, or what might be called "character defects." I believe that one of the less helpful aspects of AA, is the way it promotes the belief that people with alcohol dependency are not people of good character, or that we have more "character defects" than those who are not alcohol dependent.

I also happen to believe that "humbly asking" something outside of ourselves to "remove" any of our less-than-effective behavioral patterns, or interpersonal and emotional patterns, is not going to do a whole lot of good. Others who have different religious beliefs than I do might very well disagree with me, here. Lots of AA people would be included in that group. But I think all of them would also agree that it is essential that we identify areas in our typical functioning that we need to work on, and take the initiative to do the work, without hoping that magically things will just change for us.

Maybe the bottom line, for me, is this: Nobody is perfect, with or without alcohol problems. But for those of us who are alcohol-dependent, it is especially crucial to work on how we manage and deal with our thinking and our emotions; and to be very careful with our behavioral choices... because poor choices in these areas can lead us very quickly down the road to relapse. And one of the most helpful things about AA (again, in my opinion) is that it strongly encourages us to do this kind of work...

once again wipster, you hit the nail on the head...this is my main "problem" with aa...i love your way of thinking about the higher power stuff. in my mind, I am my highest power, only I can live/make the life i want to live. i guess i would feel i was cheating at aa because i cannot/will not give/surrender that power to something i DON"T believe in.
i know you should "take what works and leave the rest", but as a non-believer, i get so tired of being sort of ignored and considered bad or fringey for my athiesm that i don't think i want any aspect of higher powers in my recovery because that doesn't feel genuine or real to me.

[peacenik]

My Early AA Thoughts

i just read gyco's post, i guess ir eally don't know anything about aa and that is why i read this thread, to try and get some understanding...thanks gyco!

[retteacher]

My Early AA Thoughts

The higher power stuff is difficult. I've been trying to use the program, principles, AA meetings, my sponsor's guidance, that presence I feel when I meditate as my higher power. I almost feel grateful for that awful incident I had last month, because it made me desperate enough to try anything & put my doubts & reservations aside.

I'm going to a meeting tonight. I haven't done the 90 meetings in 90 days thing, but I am going to lots of meetings. As far as seeing people I know: I know it's bound to happen. We've lived in our area for many years. If folks find out I'm an alcoholic, so be it. I am an alcoholic, not a criminal. I probably could use a dose of humility. I must remember that I don't have to be wonderful...just being myself is good enough.

Mary

[gyco]

My Early AA Thoughts

peace ive been in and out of AA for years,i no what works for me, to much of anything will be my depression,but i am glad to , that dog lady made this thread we can come back and read of the success stories,is that not what its about gyco

[Determinator]

My Early AA Thoughts

very succinct Mary: If folks find out I'm an alcoholic, so be it. I am an alcoholic, not a criminal.

in regards to higher powers, there are many things that are analogous to higher powers we can use for the sake of the exercise. our very physiology and psychology, which modern science has yet to comprehend could be one higher power. The collective consciousness of chemically dependent people all over this world....maybe that is a higher power.

[A Work in Progress]

My Early AA Thoughts

peacenik;573634 wrote: this is my main "problem" with aa...i love your way of thinking about the higher power stuff. in my mind, I am my highest power, only I can live/make the life i want to live. i guess i would feel i was cheating at aa because i cannot/will not give/surrender that power to something i DON"T believe in.
i know you should "take what works and leave the rest", but as a non-believer, i get so tired of being sort of ignored and considered bad or fringey for my athiesm that i don't think i want any aspect of higher powers in my recovery because that doesn't feel genuine or real to me.

For me it is more a matter of figuring out a way to make it work for me. I have to remember that many, many people in AA are at a place in their understanding of religion and spirituality that is very concrete and literal. But I think that the underlying insights behind the AA ideas about "Higher Power" can make sense to me in other ways (as Det suggests, too, and I totally agree).

For me, from a perspective that aligned more or less with Buddhist psychology/spirituality, the problem that AA is trying to address with the business about "turning over... to a Higher Power" is the universal human problem of distorted thinking, including our capacity to rationalize, compartmentalize, and simply go on autopilot and remain stuck in very dangerous patterns of thinking and behaving. Unless we work at it, we remain stuck with chasing after what we crave, and running away from what we find aversive...

What I would like to get better at is being awake, choosing my own behavior(s) thoughtfully and out of at least the beginnings of wisdom. And wisdom is the marriage of compassion and clarity. So if I seek to be guided by wisdom (clarity and compassion), then I think that is what the AA program is trying to help me to do.

Of course I will still (if I continue this course, and I plan to) have to sit through a million meetings, listening to people talking about religion in terms that are very comfortable for them, but not so comfortable for me, and I will sit through a whole lot of recitations of the Our Father (when did that whole tradition start up, I wonder?). Maybe it will be good for the "compassion" part of my stumbling towards "wisdom"!

Fortunately, the group I am attending has a nice mix of people, including a lot of them who are NOT hard-core fundamentalist "Big-Book thumpers," and many of them see the "God" and "Higher Power" stuff in non-simplistic ways, also.

[Marshy]

My Early AA Thoughts

Peace,

I'm also an atheist and one of my main reservations about AA was the religious aspect. I also don't want a "higher power" involved in my recovery or to give away my control or power. I need MORE control and power, not less.

It's very early days with AA for me but I'm finding it's possible to do it my way, and get loads of support from people who don't care what my religious beliefs are. I realise I'm lucky in that there are hundreds of meetings I can choose from, so if one doesn't work for me, I can try another.

There are also non-traditional steps available if you want to look at those instead. I personally couldn't get past step 1 of traditional AA (the "powerless" step!), but the non-traditional step 1 is OK with me: "We admitted that we were using alcohol/drugs in spite of our better judgment, and that it was destroying many aspects of our lives and causing harm to ourselves and those around us".

So far I get the impression that most people in meetings value the face-to-face support most of all, and do the rest of the stuff their own way or not at all and don't really talk much about it (again - I know it's different in a city, different in this country too probably as people are generally much less religious here than in the States).

[okydoky]

My Early AA Thoughts

There's some really good stuff here. I have almost 2 months now and have to say I couldn't have done it without AA. I tried everything on my own. I really think I had to finally admit I was powerless to get to this point.
My struggle now is how to tell my 2 teenage sons I am an alcoholic. They know I quit drinking and know I'm going to "support" meetings but for some reason I hate the thought of them knowing what I am. Why am I so ashamed?