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**A Work in Progress** · February 21, 2009, 07:49 AM

My Early AA Thoughts

Wonderful post, DG. As you know, I spent 3 years AF as an active member of AA. From that perspective, I am a bit shocked and quite taken aback that someone during your first meeting conveyed the belief that you are a liar! I was fortunate in having a very good home group... cannot imagine that happening in the group that I was in. But... there are a lot of very dogmatic "AA is the ONLY way" people within "the fellowship." Another take on this might be that some people would simply say that, since you quit drinking without AA, you weren't "really an alcoholic"! That kind of thinking drove me nuts!

Some of the ideas I learned in AA were extremely helpful to me, especially all the teaching about "stinking thinking," about the necessity of avoiding "people, places, and things" that were triggers for drinking, about the dangers of simply being Hungry, Angry, Lonely, or Tired... And of course, the face-to-face camaraderie and connection with others is truly very valuable.

One of the aspects that did, and does, bother me most is the insistence that "alcoholics" all have "defects of character." There is sometimes a weird phenomenon in which members will try to "top" each other by talking about what crappy people they are, in their very nature. This is different than the other rather juvenile phenomenon of members trying to "top" each other by stories of the awful things they did while drinking (although some of that is helpful just to allow people to understand they are not alone in having done awful things).

One thing I often hear from MWO folks who go to a few meetings is the impression that in AA people "sit around feeling sorry for themselves." I have never found that to be the case, except of course that there are always a few individuals who take that stance. As a whole, I have always found AA to be mostly about finding effective ways to change in positive directions.

Thanks for the interesting post!

**Kirova** · February 21, 2009, 07:56 AM

My Early AA Thoughts

DG - thanks so much for sharing your insights. I've thought about AA on and off for several years but have never had the guts to go through with it. I think one of the barriers has been my fear of running across someone I know. I've been pretty secretive about my problem....and as I very rarely socialize, it's not been too difficult to shield my problem from others. I'm doing ok now, but you've sparked something with the possible social aspects of AA -- forming 3D relationships...getting hugs...While I'm still not ready to take the AA plunge, I'll keep the door open for now.

**Evie.Lou** · February 21, 2009, 08:01 AM

My Early AA Thoughts

I understand your feelings...My Mom started the Ala Teen group in our area way back in the 1960s...And I was forced to attend.
I couldn't get it then and haven't ever really found an AA group that worked for me..
In general they are way too CULT like (goggle AA orange papers) for my tastes and I am sorry that you didn't get what you needed there.
You are here at MWO and we know that thru this site you will see that there are MANY WAYS OUT and it is our job to find the one or ones that work for us..
AA has helped countless people and how can I ever disregard all the good that they have done ( I can't) ..i surely can't but to have them say that their way is the only way is ridiculous in my eyes.

**AAthlete** · February 21, 2009, 08:13 AM

My Early AA Thoughts

DG, awesome post and I'm glad that you are finding the meetings valuable. Funny isn't it, that lots of things are different between these programs, yet there are some things that just don't change (a person at AA thinking you are a liar; a person at MWO being pissed because you wrote something to offend them, etc.).

I will admit that I had issues with the whole God-thing too, DG, but I found a way to mold my belief into one that works for me. I grew up with this certain image of God and it just wasn't working for me anymore. I had to change that image so that I could believe, and my HP is now someone who created the universe and set all this in motion, but not one who interjects in our day-to-day lives..

In terms of AA being the only way to sobriety, I think that there is a method to their madness. Rather then telling you that there is no other way, I think that they are trying to reinforce that you need to give 110% of yourself and cannot be focused on anything else. In that sense, I would have agreed when I was first getting sober - I was so immersed in it that I couldn't really spend much time here.

I guess it all comes down to one single, overriding point for me: When I attend a meeting, I never, ever fail to walk away feeling more energized and content then I was going in. I don't do it perfectly by any means- I only go to a couple of meetings a week, I don't talk to my sponsor that often and I haven't sponsored anyone myself, but for now I have the contentment and serenity that the program offers.

I hope you continue to check out meetings but that is obviously up to you. Just remember that no one can make you feel unwelcome unless you let them (just like here). AA as a program teaches tolerance and patience to others, and there will always be people in AA who don't get that. That is why they tell people to keep coming back - no one's perfect!

**SAUSAGE** · February 21, 2009, 08:31 AM

My Early AA Thoughts

Great post DG and thank you so much for sharing your insights - hope you will continue to keep us posted on how your AA experience develops.

I haven't yet approached AA but still feel I would like to one day - my reasonsfor avoiding it to date being; -
firstly professional - close to home i'd be scared i'd meet someone I knew professionally !!
secondly - time factor - it's hard to get out find the time with 2 young children, and what little free time I do have I like to use for exercise as this really helps with my sobriety also
thirdly - haven't yet got the guts to go (more likely the real reason, the others above are probably secondary!) -but i'd like to, as I know of many people who have achieved long term success with it.

My thoughts are that with anything; AA, SMART, MWO etc for any individual there will be bits that will be helpful and that you can relate to and bits that you can't or disagree with and it's a case of applying what helps. Long term the individual still has to do the work themselves these are just helpful tools in the box as it were.

Interesting your comment on how people questioned the length of time you'd been sober especially since you hadn't "needed" them before - glad you raised this issue because if I do summon up the guts to attend I did wonder what people would think to the fact that I was already so many months sober down the line and as WIP said, question whether I was therefore really an alcoholic!!

On a lighter note - if you take along your May 08 photo to your next meeting they may believe your story as it's obvious you must have undergone some serious life change(s) since then and it may stop them saying you look like Sarah Palin as you certainly didn't back in May last year!!!!

Keep us posted how it's going and thanks again for sharing this with us.

**retteacher** · February 21, 2009, 11:51 AM

My Early AA Thoughts

DG et al: I didn't have time to read this thoroughly...I will come back when I have more time. One of the things I've heard about AA & Alanon is you can "take what you like & leave the rest." I can do that. I need help, & I need a sponsor. I have to exhaust all ends in fighting this. If it's not a disease in my case, it sure is a strong compulsion. Whatever it is, I can't solve this by myself. Mary

**Doggygirl** · February 21, 2009, 12:27 PM

My Early AA Thoughts

Hi everyone!

Evie Lou I'm not sure I understand your post. I didn't say I "didn't get what I needed" there. I HAVE seen the Orange Papers (it's been a long while) and where I went wrong was allowing "in" those opinions (along with all the other negative opinions of AA that I "allowed in") without considering equally the positive opinions that others have of AA, and the most important thing of all - going to experience it first hand and decide for myself what I think first hand rather than second hand. I can certainly understand your POV especially if "force fed" this stuff when you were a teen.

WIP I really appreciate your persepctive. Yes - the "types" we have heard so much about are represented, but at least in the 4 meetings I've been to, many many types are represented, with the most important "type" to me being people with many years of sobriety!! The ONE woman (and there were at least 25 people at this meeting - maybe even 30 or more) who gave a STRONG "liar" vibe (did not come right out and say it that I heard) also gave me a vibe of "grumpy old woman" in general.

A few people asked about "white knuckling it alone" after the meeting, and of course I mentioned that I did NOT accomplish this alone - I've been in the good company of friends on the internet. I'm not going to worry about what anyone thinks of my sober time. I have just as many embarrassing drunk stories as the next person to prove the truth.

(sorta kidding but sorta not) The overwhelming majority has made me feel quite welcome. I guess part of my observation having heard all this stuff before actually going is that yes, it exists but no, it's NOT the overwhelming majority. At least not in the limited first hand exposure I've now had. The character defect issue has not been directly discussed yet in the meetings I've been too. I will await that one with interest!

Kirova and Sausage, I understand your concerns about anonymity. That was another concern of mine. All I can say as a novice to this is that it seems that people DO take the tradition of anonymity quite seriously. I will also say that I have reached a point where if someone in my professional life DOES find out I go to AA, I'm OK with that too.

Mary, I think it's great that you are grabbing every tool available to you to achieve the sober and good life that you so richly deserve!

Today's meeting was interesting as the focus was on the Twelve Traditions of AA which I had no idea existed until I saw them on the wall earlier this week. For those who may not know, my understanding is that the 12 Traditions are the foudation of AA - the "rules of the organization" so to speak. The way it was explained today, it is these Traditions that allow the organization to go through turmoil and strife at times, but have these guiding principals to help resolve conflict and keep the organization as a whole on track. Individuals may not agree with all of the Traditions, but the Traditions trump any individual departure.

When the group first started discussing this, I though "how inflexible. What a way to get stuck in the dark ages and not move with the times." And I'm sure in some ways that might be somewhat true (maybe - I'm just speculating). BUT.. as the conversation evolved, I realized that as an organization AA has withstood the test of a very long time. AA is still here and helping people get sober regardless of circumstances in the world around us, and circumstances / personalities within. After contemplated that, I figured the organization deserves respect for having a guiding set of principals that still stands up. (AA or WIP or any others with experience, please correct me if I understood this totally wrong!)

One statement I found particularly interesting coming from a person who is 27 years sober and in AA that whole time was this:

"In the opinion of many old timers, AA is not ALL ABOUT the 12 steps. It's all about two things: 1) The 12 Traditions (one of which is the rule about anonymity) and 2) Never taking the first drink so you don't have to worry about the second one."

I found that facinating.

From AA:

When I attend a meeting, I never, ever fail to walk away feeling more energized and content then I was going in.

It's only 4 meetings so far, but that has been my experience each time so far. And as long as that is generally my experience - more good than bad - I will keep going.

At today's meeting - which was 100% people I had not met before, they honored me with a 9 month sober coin (medallion? Don't even know what those things are called) even though today is only the anni of my last drink and tomorrow is my anni of 9 months sober (and 7 months for WIPper!!). So it's clear that the majority are taking me at face value and it's a (very small, I think) minority who questions either the length of my sobriety and/or the depth of my alcoholism. Geez I got teary eyed when they did that.

I am finding that as a sober person, I am able to take in new ideas in a far less judgemental and reactionary way. I'm surprised at myself and rather delighted. These old knees can't take much more jerking.

FWIW to close on the concept of the Traditions, it occured to me that it's perfectly normal for a group of people to have disagreement and strife at times. It happens here and it happens with any group of people I've ever been involved with. IMO, MWO could benefit from some basic "traditions" which could go a long way to help resolve conflict. I suspect something like that will evolve someday.

OK - I think I'm going to enjoy this day reading! AA and WIP - one other thing I'd like to ask you both. I don't want to say anything here on this thread or anywhere that violates the anonymity tradition. I don't think anything I've said so far violates that, but since you both have way more experience, please let me know if I cross the line.

Happy Sober Saturday!!

DG

**hippie37** · February 21, 2009, 12:56 PM

My Early AA Thoughts

Hi DG!

I'll share with you: "My names Phil and I'm an addict!!!"

I know in the past that last sentence would of been one of mocking AA because of my thoughts concerning that fellowship. I shared exactly the same thoughts as you but my prejudices ran deeper. I've always been a bit (a lot in fact!) of a non-conformist and I saw AA as having to conform. To be perfectly honest with you I saw stopping drinking as conforming too. I've really had my eyes opened recently though within another 12 step recovery fellowship; that of N/A and I'm really starting to see the benefits over this past month in how my attitude has changed dramatically. I really used to have a big problem with the cliches people used to come out with like "Keep coming back" It used to drive me nuts! I would be thinking "Well is that the only words of wisdom you have to impart with ME the newcomer?" And the more people kept saying it to me the more I wanted to punch someones lights out!!. I also at the time felt like a lot of prejudices I held were not actually my own. Another thing that really annoyed me was how some members seemed to interpret their own lives through the big book. It's a difficult one to explain but it kind of amounted to plagiarism if you get my drift. It seemed they had taken the big book as their own lives. I can understand identifying with the book but what I saw was where the whole brainwashing/cult idea that many had/have of AA.

At the end of the day though it's not about other people and what they are doing to stay sober. Because what works for someone else may be totally different to what works for me.

And sometimes it's nice to know you can get a real physical hug when needed, in addition to cyber hugs if that makes any sense.

Makes a lot of sense DG, and you just can't beat it really!! Sometimes It's all I need is a genuine hug from someone who cares enough to know and completely understand what I'm going through as they've been there before me. I'm actually loving N/A meetings and I get so much more from them than I did within AA. Even though I identified still with alcoholics in the AA meetings I think N/A tends to look at the wider perspective that we are powerless over our addiction rather than just alcohol. I think I'll benefit greatly from doing the steps through N/A as somehow I see them being done more in-depth for me.

Thanks again for the post D/G

Love and Happiness
Hippie
xx

**Evie.Lou** · February 21, 2009, 01:11 PM

My Early AA Thoughts

I was referring to your statement that you had been called an "out right LIAR"...this statement rang in my ears and made my eyes tear up. i was called the same thing many years ago at an AA meeting when I was seeking help (i think that's why you were there ...right ...seeking help ???). I don't think it was helpful to me...that is not what i went to AA for.... and I am quite sure that is not what you where there for either. I wasn't trying to offend you...I felt compassion towards you having to be exposed to that kind of unfair judgmental attitude. As I said in my post and what I mean from my heart is that we all must find our own way out and I think what ever works is what you need to do.

**retteacher** · February 21, 2009, 01:32 PM

My Early AA Thoughts

I just read this all the way through. There's a lot of food for thought. I'm willing to try anything at this point. As far as the higher power God stuff. I know I can find a way around that. Mainly, I have to NOT drink today. Mary

**Doggygirl** · February 21, 2009, 01:50 PM

My Early AA Thoughts

Hippie, those are interesting insights. Having also quit nicotine, I agree that there is a whole lot of similarity between these addictions. I thank my lucky stars I turned out to be allergic to either cocaine, or something it was commonly cut with back in my younger days. Otherwise I might be fighting more addictions or be dead like several of my drinkin' druggin' pals back from the day! I am mostly very happy for YOU that you are finding a positive place that is helping you in your recovery. I'll be interested in hearing more of your thoughts as your work your way through this. And since I can't give you a 3D hug I will use up one of my precious ration of smilies for this post! :l

(OK, two of them)

Evie Lou, I said that at least one person in the room THINKS I'm an outright liar. I did not say that anyone called me an outright liar. And of course I am assuming that based on body language, etc. as I cannot actually read minds. (so my wording was not very good in my original post). I can understand your perspective on AA after your negative experiences. I do think that may be contributing to a negative interpretation of some of my observations, where *I* do not feel negatively about them. Not trying to be confrontational, just clarify that I feel quite positive overall about my experience thus far with AA, despite the fact that like ANY program (including MWO) I don't necessarily like or agree with everything. That's all I'm saying. It would be very unfair to the many people who welcomed me openly to suggest that I was treated badly - I was not, and I'm sorry if my original post came across that way.

Mary, I used to think that the Higher Power business would be a real deal breaker for me with AA, but I'm glad I decided to sort of "set that issue aside for the moment, and find out more about all the other aspects of AA." There are many many folks there with double digit years of sobriety, so the way I see it, there is something there that is valuable to be learned. I'm willing to open my mind and see what is there. Nothing wrong with keeping an open mind and checking it out.

DG

**AAthlete** · February 21, 2009, 02:08 PM

My Early AA Thoughts

DG, it is our own personal choice as to whether we break our anonymity to other people, and it was put in place to protect the people who attend meetings. That's why we refer to ourselves by first name (much like we use avatars and screen names here), and why we say "what we hear here, stays here, here here!!"

One of the cornerstones to the whole program is anonymity (both personal and in the press), which is why we also say "Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our principles, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities." The foundations may seem rigid, but have served the program well over the years (and I have seen them in action).

That being said, I do find huge benefits being here, this Abs forum chief among them. I love the discussions that we have and they always help reinforce my sobriety.

**retteacher** · February 21, 2009, 07:17 PM

My Early AA Thoughts

Everyone: I just got a phone message from my sponsor. I'll be talking to him tomorrow. I'm scared, but I want to work the steps. Pray for me. Mary

**Doggygirl** · February 21, 2009, 07:44 PM

My Early AA Thoughts

retteacher;554396 wrote: Everyone: I just got a phone message from my sponsor. I'll be talking to him tomorrow. I'm scared, but I want to work the steps. Pray for me. Mary

:yougo::yougo::yougo:

I am very happy for you Mary!!! Finding peace and happiness in a full, sober life is something that you deserve. Today has been a very big day for you, eh? Scary too I bet. Right now I'm wishing for a "sleep like a baby" kind of night for you following such a big day.

AA, I too find a lot of value here in the ABS forum. I have no intention of giving up the positive resources I have thankfully found over the last year and a half or so since finding MWO and beginning this journey. I do respect an AA expectation that other program information not be disseminated at AA meetings. On first pass that sounded a bit old fashioned, but after hearing a couple of examples of WHY AA sticks to their guns in their own program, I completely understand. The entire group of people attending any given meeting deserve the expected and agreed upon agenda. That's fair. (IMO)

Anyway, nightie night night all! (yes, I go to bed really early and watch my movie or fall asleep during it, and then get up rarin' to go around 4AM. Yes I am :nutso: in that regard!)

DG

DG

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