AF Daily - Wednesday Mar. 4

[speedster]

AF Daily - Wednesday Mar. 4

A quick hello, today is packed with meetings. Looks like a great discussion today. I'll catch up later.

[Accountable for Me]

AF Daily - Wednesday Mar. 4

Tom, lots of good advice here.... hopefully it explains what you are feeling at the moment.

Me, I woke up sooooooooooo sad. This whole thing with my dad finally sunk in. As soon as I got out of bed I started bawling my face off. I am also tired of people treating me anything less than a human being. I know that he didn't die; but what if he had of? I know that I would have ended up on an alcoholic binge and maybe never have come out of it. That is how much I love and look up to this man. He was so mad at me for going back to my daugther's father over a year ago; so he cut me out of his life. How petty is that. Every excuse they gave me on Monday night as to why they didnt' tell me was LAME!

So I am feeling a bit hurt and angry right now. I won't drink! NO WAY! It did cross my mind but what in the hell would that do for me; except HURT me?

Anyway, I don't want to bum you people out. Sorry. It has just all sunk in for me.

Have a good day!

[AAthlete]

AF Daily - Wednesday Mar. 4

Simply not drinking, ironically, was the reason I was never able to stop drinking. I could remove the booze, but the same old reasons that I drank were still there. If they were still there, and I was used to dealing with them by drinking - then sooner or later I was going to drink again.

I had to undergo a physic change in order to truly recover from this terrible affliction. That meant figuring out how to let go of all the pent-up emotions that I had on a daily basis, and to embrace life one day at a time. Once I did that, then I didn't have a reason to drink anymore. Sure, the same old crap pops up in my life, but now I look at it differently and that is a beautiful thing.

AFM, I don't know the story behind your post but I am sorry that you are hurting.

[Joanna]

AF Daily - Wednesday Mar. 4

Tom you started a brilliant thread; there is so much food for thought on here. Your feeling grumpy comments really resonate with me and I guess it's for a similar reason to you. Not thinking about not drinking all the time is hard to do! I need to put stuff in my life to replace this focusing on sobriety all the time but like others have said, it's a kind of journey.

I suffer badly from depression so I don't always identify with those posters who are hale and hearty baking, exercising, celebrating life etc. I wish I could. Sometimes I read these posts and long to be able to associate being sober with some of these feelings about how great life is. Unfortunately, this just isn't my reality. Sobriety for me has meant waking up each morning and having to face my depression head on; trying to feel good for the things it has given me but not feeling as happy about them as I would like to.

I hope that as time goes on, I will learn to build an AF life that is more rewarding. I'm not even sure I understand at the moment how my use of AL impacted on me and my depression. I thought I was handling it fine and functioning well despite drinking 100 + units a week.

Anyway I've digressed but thanks for everyone who has posted here today. I've enjoyed reading all of it

[SAUSAGE]

AF Daily - Wednesday Mar. 4

Tom

You've started an excellent thread today with lots to think about. I feel I must respond as our sobriety dates are the same. There's been some excellent advice on here, not a lot I can add really.

I totally second those who mentioned having new stuff in your life to replace the drinking with (make a list of things you want to achieve / get round to) and those who said don't focus too much on the "not drinking" try and forget it - i've been a lot happier since i've stopped counting days religiously. I still keep a tally on my calendar so I can look up where I'm up to, but I don't wake up every morning thinking, aah yes this is day no ** or whatever.

The only thing I can add is I feel once you're into the routine of this abstainenc thing ie perhaps day 60 and beyond, I feel one does get ebbs and flows, peaks and troughs, somedays are harder than others, some days I don't even think about alcohol, others are more tough, and I feel this is the natural cycle of how things go. Maybe retrospectively you should give each day a mark out of 5 on how hard you found it / how happy you were with your AF life, and plot this for a while. You will then see that after a tough run of days, you get an easier run etc etc. This may help you Joanna too, particularly if you suffer from depression. I suffered from bad PND in the past and also due to a hysterectomy, but one of the reasons I try and keep busy with my exercise , other stuff etc is to croud depression out of my mind, give myself things to be happy about.

Sorry i've not explained this very well, but hope you get an idea of what i'm trying to say.

Take care all

Sausage xx

[A Work in Progress]

AF Daily - Wednesday Mar. 4

Joanna;563321 wrote:
I suffer badly from depression so I don't always identify with those posters who are hale and hearty baking, exercising, celebrating life etc. I wish I could. Sometimes I read these posts and long to be able to associate being sober with some of these feelings about how great life is. Unfortunately, this just isn't my reality. Sobriety for me has meant waking up each morning and having to face my depression head on; trying to feel good for the things it has given me but not feeling as happy about them as I would like to.

I hope that as time goes on, I will learn to build an AF life that is more rewarding. I'm not even sure I understand at the moment how my use of AL impacted on me and my depression. I thought I was handling it fine and functioning well despite drinking 100 + units a week.

Joanna, please feel free to set me straight if I am heading down a wrong pathway here, but I am wondering if you are beginning to think that this AF business just isn't worth it, isn't helping you much, and you might as well drink? Maybe your mind is heading in the direction of telling you that drinking even helps you cope with depression... and that you really miss drinking, and you are beginning to have and entertain some positive fantasies about alcohol?

If so... you are not alone, of course. I have been there, and done that. I ended 3 years of sobriety with just that sort of thinking... and embarked on a good 8 more years of letting my life once again go utterly to hell with active alcoholism (on top of some serious depression). It was misery on top of misery. Yes, I remained "functional" -- but inside my head and my heart, I lived with hopelessness, despair. I was actively thinking about suicide when I finally turned things around, this time.

The thing about depression is that it skews our thinking, confuses us, distorts our view of the world. We really cannot depend on what our minds are telling us, when we are seriously depressed; we truly must, at those times, act contrary to how we feel.

I hope you'll be careful and watchful about your thinking, and not allow yourself (remember, you DO have control over this!) to dwell on or engage in romanticized fantasies or daydreams about how "nice" it would be to have "a drink." Once we start doing that, we are truly on the road to relapse...

[Doggygirl]

AF Daily - Wednesday Mar. 4

Hi everyone! Thank you Tom for starting us off today, and especially with such a thought provoking topic that touches every one of us somewhere early in our path to sobriety. Awesome posts by everyone.

WIP raised a point that really resonated with me. There are the things we can control, and the things we can't. Some days I feel surrounded and nearly suffocated by a mountain of things I can't control. For me and I'm sure for many if not all of us, these tough economic times just pile on more "outside of our control" stuff.

I find myself continually returning to the basic foundation (for lack of a better term) of the life I started building without AL. While I am looking to grow beyond these basics, it is exercise and fitness and wellness that are at the core of my AF life. As an example, I can't control that a big customer who owes us about a full mortgage payment is defaulting on it due to the economic pressures on his business. But my frame of mind is much better if I exercise over it than wish to drink over it, or actually drink over it. Endorphins are very powerful I find. (and Joanna, I hear that endorphins can be powerful in fighting depression? I'm sure things are more complicated than that....)

I still fall back on my list of things to do. If I can't force a fix to a problem that is outside my control, it feels good to busy myself with something I CAN control, and can feel good about when I'm done.

Reading this back is sounds so hokey. So maybe I'm just hokey! Doing ANYTHING that is positive to me just feels so much better than getting "stuck" in what is beyond my control. There is so much real danger of me drinking if I let myself feel "stuck" in stuff.

Not sure this makes any sense...but there you have it anyway.


:yougo:CONGRATULATIONS TOM3.1 and SAUSAGE ON 4 MONTHS AF:yougo:

(a day late!)

DG

[Joanna]

AF Daily - Wednesday Mar. 4

Sausage; like the idea of keeping an eye on run of good and bad days.......

DG. Endorphins....... Yes you are right. However, I've had depression for over 30 years and sometimes nothing'll shift it! Can't do much vigorous exercise unfortunately due to neurological problems but do try to do at least 30 mins dog walking every day.....

WIP. Think my main issue is not so much fantasizing about AL rather than trying to break the habit of early evening wine. I do dearly think it is worth it because I'm aware it compounds and conflates the problems with depression that I experience. I've had to stop taking anti depressants recently because of a possible link to cerebral bleeding ( a big issue for me with brain condition). I've just been accepted to take part in a research study called 'Staying Well after Depression' run by Oxford university in the UK. I found it after you mention MBCT (mindfulness based cognitive therapy). Seems to be all the rage here; lots of funding being thrown at it. So thanks for the pointer.

[A Work in Progress]

AF Daily - Wednesday Mar. 4

Joanna, you've got a lot on your plate. Good for you, for working on this. I am so glad you were accepted into the MBCT group! When does it start? Have you read the MBCT textbook? I did some training with Zindel Segal, early on, and also with Jon Kabat-Zinn, later. Heard Mark Williams speak at a MBSR conference a year ago, what an AMAZING man! I have used these methods quite a bit, both on myself and in professional settings, with others. It really makes a huge difference, for me. For those of us (like me and like you, too, I believe) who were trained in standard CBT methods and theory, the difference is that instead of attempting to "restructure," challenge, or change our thoughts (our cognitive distortions), we learn to accept them as fleeting phenomena, and we take them less seriously. We take the stance of a "compassionate observer." If they (the thoughts) are seriously counterproductive, then distraction works well, too.

[Arial]

AF Daily - Wednesday Mar. 4

Hi WIP and Joanna,

I am really interested to read your posts on depression and CBT as my daughter is currently suffering from severe depression with suicidal thoughts - the antidepressants and counselling have thankfully seemed to stabilise the situation and we're helping her now construct a healthier life and yes, change her attitudes and thoughts. I'm a strong supporter of traditional CBT, not having heard of any alternatives, so would really like to learn more about the MBCT, though I have to immediately question how, if you see the same pattern of thought create the same reactionary behaviour either in others or in yourself, why would you choose to accept that and not want to change it? I'm speaking out of total ignorance of what MBCT is, just picking up on what you said WIP, so apologies for lack of understanding. I'm currently doing a course in regular CBT as I've found that, in my capacity as a teacher, it occurs naturally with certain students and, of course, I want to increase my understanding so as to better support my daughter.

I have to admit to being sold on the benefits of activity with regards to depression so I've been trying to encourage her in that direction. All the research I've done supports the positive benefits of regular excercise both physically and psychologically and I remember vividly the 'highs' I used to get in my fit, active younger days! The difficulty I have at the moment is 'backing off'! It's difficult as a parent to now give her the space to find her own way, but I suppose it's a bit like becoming sober - if anyone had told me this is what you should do, I would have run as fast as I could in the other direction. The fact that I have been able to find my own way and in my own time has meant that I feel in control and have developed my own understandings which has given my the ability for the moment to move beyond alcohol. I would really welcome anyone's insight in to depression as it's something that I feel I don't understand well enough. Despite reading and research and endless talks with my daughter, it's a difficult thing for me to get my head around. So if anyone's prepared to share their experiences, either as a sufferer or as a care-giver, I'd really welcome your insights. PM me if you'd prefer.

And Joanna, I really admire and respect your efforts and decision to not use alcohol as a crutch - I know that respite from the negative and depressive thoughts is something that my daughter really struggles with, and to face this without the numbing effects of alcohol is absolutely fantastic and shows a strength and courage that I really admire!

Thanks for letting me ramble ....:l

[wellseasoned]

AF Daily - Wednesday Mar. 4

AWIPI agree with you - while being focused on AF is critical in the beginning - it is a natural and essential process to move past that intensity at some point. Being AF can open doors to other areas of interest in our lives that we were not able to pay attention to because we were too busy drinking (not thinking!!!)

[A Work in Progress]

AF Daily - Wednesday Mar. 4

Arial, I posted a response to your (very good) question about MBCT on the other thread that you started... Also, click here for a short piece that I wrote about MBSR, some time back.

[Doggygirl]

AF Daily - Wednesday Mar. 4

A Work in Progress;564132 wrote: Arial, I posted a response to your (very good) question about MBCT on the other thread that you started... Also, click here for a short piece that I wrote about MBSR, some time back.

Awesome link! Thank you. I suspect it's been posted before but this is the first time I opened it with a little time for browsing around.

DG

[mario]

AF Daily - Wednesday Mar. 4

well said everybody, tom this is what i was wondering yesterday.

[Joanna]

AF Daily - Wednesday Mar. 4

Arial I would be more than happy to speak with you either on this forum or through PM. I have a professional interest as a psychologist as well as having personal experience.

The thing with depression is it's an isolating illness. And that is why I think its so cruel. when you need to reach out to others you just can't; its the nature of the beast. And for those who haven't experienced it, I would say it's nigh on impossible to empathise because those thoughts and feelings would be so alien to them. And yet so natural to the depressive. WIP is right; depression is about distortion; of our thoughts, feelings and subsequent behaviours.

You're way down in the hole and you can't get out. Often you don't even want to.....

It's horrible being close to someone going through this. I saw my father cry for the first time when I had a bad episode at 25. He was really hurting because he knew he couldn't put it right for me. He understood that much. He told me to just hang on to him and I did:l