WEEKLY AA THREAD - Week of June 15 - June 21st

[Kayla]

Hope you won't mind me boldly striding in and starting the thread. It's Monday in Australia and most of you lot in the US are in yesterday, and I needed a start. So hi to all!

I'm back in doubt city once again, I might as well say for the record. In that in-between land - admitting there's a problem, but not entirely convinced that AA attendance is the vehicle to help me deal with the job. Hold on there though people ... am trying to keep that open mind's door ajar. I just need to express the difficulty in that. Have been to a few meetings this week -and realised that I need to get this whole recovery business a lot more balanced. I tend to OD on recovery stuff and maybe I'm AAing myself a bit too much right now. Hence the MWO balancing act, and my presence here.

Firstly, I wanted to pick up on R2C's question about IDing as an alcoholic. In my understanding, it's designed to deal with the startling amnesia that people with addictions have a great abundance of. I thought this quote might be pertinent, talks about the "problem" - hence the labeling of ourselves as A's:

"Clearly, to uncover from addiction, we need to to acknowledge or admit we have a problem. The purpose of admitting powerlessness is to send shock waves to our ego or old survivor. "I've got a problem. Get it? The old ways aren't working anymore - they could kill us." When a person's life has been under siege from an addiction, they need a sharp, clear, stinging reminder that they have lost control and that their addiction is messing up their life." From: Many Roads, One Journey - Charlotte Davis Kasl

I'm very much with that line of thought right now. There's a bloody huge problem - and I guess many people stick with AA so that they never lose sight of that. For me, right now, that's okay - I have clarity about why I'm going to AA - for that recovery community (like here). But the old issues are rearing their heads and hope it's okay for me to air them here. Don't want to rock anyone's boat though, so tell me if I'm getting in the way of your smooth AA ride. I've come away from meetings this week with irritations. Annoyed with people treating the big book like it's the bible. Bothered by the globalising language and perennially irked by tired cliches. I respect that AA saves people from addiction and given the choice between addiction/death and an AA meeting, well clearly it's healthier to be bored at a meeting than out there knocking back the wine/vodka/insert your own poison. I might add that I have actually managed a few laughs at meetings this week.

Maybe it's not okay to air this here, but one of the things that I need to deal with is my non-conformity - it is both my strength (critical thinking) and my weakness (self-sabotage/over-intellectualizing). Cruising alongside that is my resistance. So this is what I'm thinking: I'll hang in there at AA for a while - I'll listen and try to stop playing psychologist - but I do dislike my identity being reduced to just an alcoholic/addict - even though I see that (as above) it's necessary I don't FORGET "the problem". Have to say it guys. You can eject me from the thread if I'm out of line, I don't want to stir the dust or offend anyone. I'll balance some of what I've said by including a few AA positives: 1) A place to go with people who share the same, or similar, problems 2) a minutes silence - an example of beautiful compassion at work for the alc/addicts still out there in active addiction and 3) they have a beautiful serenity prayer that actually helps.

[Cinders]

WEEKLY AA THREAD - Week of June 15 - June 21st

Kayla,

You have expressed beautifully what many of us deal with internally.

I would be horrified if someone knocked you down for stating your thoughts and opinions. That is not what this thread is about!!

I seldom get annoyed at AA meetings but have in the past. Especially when some old timer who has been sober for years starts talking about the ones struggling in a negative way. Luckily, I have a great support network here. :-)

I do want to add that I have been thinking about something my hubby said to me the other day. "Drinking is an action. I think you need to learn to replace that action with some positive ones to get well."

By George, I think he's got it!!

So does AA. That is what the 12 Steps are all about. Replacing our addiction with positive actions that will help us stay away from our substance.

Clarity.

I keep struggling and working at this sober life and I will continue to do so.

I seldom mention when I "slip" because I do not want to bring up drinking in our AF thread, but I am not doing as well as many here and it makes me very much self-loathe myself.

However, like everyone here, I refuse to give up. AF is the life for me. AF is the only way I will be able to truly live.

Dr. Wayne Dyer and Louise Hays also speak of positive affirmations. He said something last night that made sense. If you want something, imagine what it is you are trying to achieve, what it will feel like, how you will feel when you do achieve it. Then envision you are there.

AA does the same thing. Take positive steps in your life. It will not only help us recover from our drinking, it will make the life we attain one worth living.

Hmm. Admit we have a problem, recognize that we could not solve it as we were trying to, take positive steps to eliminate the action, be good to the people in our lives. Keep working at it. Remember to stay good to others, when we are wrong, admit it and fix it as best as possible, and remember to help others who are struggling. Helping others is doing a positive action but also reminds us we were there and do not want to go back there.

Kayla, thank you for posting. Your words helped me see clearly some of MY stumbling blocks. I am determined to kick them out of the way or smash them.

Love,
Cindi

[Cinders]

WEEKLY AA THREAD - Week of June 15 - June 21st

BTW, Kayla, I also wanted to add that Dr. Dyer mentioned last night that we must have a rational and real REASON to want to change. Not just know we should.

Step 1.

We must think about why we want to be AF and for each of us that would be different reasons.

But admitting we are powerless is sure a damned fine reason....

Love,
Cindi

[retteacher]

WEEKLY AA THREAD - Week of June 15 - June 21st

Kayla: There's a saying in the program: "Take what you like & leave the rest." We're not automatons, & therefore, we're going to have questions & differences. As the serenity prayers suggests, we can accept (that doesn't necessarily mean agree with) the things we cannot change & change the things we can (ourselves). I go to a number of Big Book meetings & of course, find the language dated & sexist since it was written in the 1930's. I just try to translate it in my mind to fit my needs.

R2C: My sponsor also asked me to call every day. I also try to call others but am not as successful as I could be. I'm working on it, but reaching out is not in my nature. There is an AA anniversary picnic coming up in July, & I'm determined to go to it. Except for my sponsor, I haven't really made any connections yet. I know I will eventually. I'll step out of my comfort zone when the time is right.

Everyone: I took my 5th step yesterday. It took about 2 hours, & I told my sponsor as many of my secrets as I could think of. I related my whole drinking history & explained my most outstanding blackout, drunken events as I could think of, ending w/the debacle that took place in Feb. I had never told anyone the whole story...not even my husband. After that I went through my character defects & shortcomings, starting w/the dishonesty of hiding my drinking for all those years. What an incredible relief that was! I am so grateful that I was able to receive the guidance to do that.

Cindi: I hope you will continue trying. Eventually, something will click into place. For me, the daily meetings are essential to my recovery. If I miss a meeting, I make myself go the next day wo/fail. It doesn't matter what the meeting's topic is. I just have to be in a room w/other alcoholics. I even found myself at an all men's meeting one time.

This past weekend, we had our dinner club. It was a beautiful meal, starting w/frozen daiquaries (sp?). I felt one tiny twinge when I saw all the bottles lined up but quickly turned my attention to something else. It helps to watch the normal drinkers drink. I'd never be able to do what they did (stop at the appropriate time), & the whole evening would have been taken up w/the obssession.

Take care everyone.

Mary

[ready2change]

WEEKLY AA THREAD - Week of June 15 - June 21st

Kayla,

I hope no one here gets bent over your opinion of AA. I found it amazingly honest and raw. I understand your feelings regarding AA myself. I have attended meetings off and on for several years. I too, for the longest time did not understand their philosophy or their referrences to the Big Book or Higher Power or any of that. I resisted the whole notion, and would only occasionally go to meetings, but generally decided that I wasn't like "those people". Then after years of trying everything else, including MWO and having "limited" success, I have started reading the big book again, and going to meetings. I am unable to attend as many meetings as I would like, but generally do enjoy the ones I attend. Unlike some, I do not have a "core" group at this point, and I am okay with that.

What has changed for me now is my attitude. I used to go into these meetings thinking I couldn't relate to these people..they are much worse than I have ever been. But now I see, it is only circumstances (and perhaps luck) that has kept me from getting as bad as some. I see them as fellow humans with a disease (or whatever we believe it to be) wanting to find a way to live sober, just like me. I feel a peace at these meetings I can't describe. And I want what they have. And if it means working the steps to attain peace and learn how to live sober, for me...then that is what I will do.

But this didn't come overnite. It really is an evolution for me. I really am powerless over alcohol, or else I would simply quit drinking it and allowing it to destroy my soul. I'm sure AA isn't for everyone, perhaps for you it isn't quite the time for it, like it wasn't for me before? Please continue to share on this thread, everyones thoughts are welcome. I'm sure no one here wants to be attacked for their opinions, me included.

As for the writing from the 1930's in the Big Book, I find it oddly comforting to read? I borrowed the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions and just returned it, and I feel lost without it?? I need to get one of my own. I think the 12 steps are a way of living that everyone could benefit from, alcoholic or not.

And I don't have a sponser yet, just a woman who gave me her number. I need to call her. Thanks everyone.

R2C

[retteacher]

WEEKLY AA THREAD - Week of June 15 - June 21st

R2C & Kayla: I just got home from a women's meeting in which we discussed HP. There was plenty of discussion about not being willing to pray yet or not believing in anything but the AA group. My best efforts got me nowhere. The constant relapses made going back to abstinence much more difficult. My drinking was not something I could "think" or "intellectualize" my way out of. I had to surrender to something, & the AA group & my sponsor's instructions were that something.

My outer life wasn't a complete shambles when I joined AA, but my inner life was. I was lying & hiding every day. I was pretending I was sober when I wasn't. I've heard at meetings that people whose lives are a complete mess sometimes do better w/AA & sobriety. While I don't always follow all my sponsor's instructions about every single thing (I still have to make more connections w/other AAers), I'm doing my best & am progressing.

I have to say that completing the 5th step was huge for me. I feel like I've jumped over a big hurtle, because now there is a person in my non-cyber life who knows my whole story.

Mary

[ready2change]

WEEKLY AA THREAD - Week of June 15 - June 21st

Mary: I'm working on the praying. It is not natural for me, but I do it at night right before I go to sleep. I want to believe in a higher power. I know there is one, it is just acceptance that I need in my heart. So far, I have not attended a meeting that works on the steps. I would like that.

Be patient Mary, you didn't become an alcoholic overnite. I personally don't feel there is any reason to rush thru the steps, and once you get thru them, my understanding is you do them all over again.

You truly sound good. I am so happy for you.

R2C

[Kayla]

WEEKLY AA THREAD - Week of June 15 - June 21st

I sat reading through all your considered responses this morning and I'm going to re-read them and take notes. You all said such valuable things. Clearly, I need to lodge some of this in my stubborn head, because around noon today (normal begin drinking hour of late) it was like getting hit by a MACK truck that had the word 'GO DRINK' written on it. I had my whole day planned out until this point - walk, shop and buy husb anniv card and prez (21 yrs tomorrow), come home and have a quieter week, catch up on MWO, do some writing, start one of my editing assignments ... maintain sobriety.

All of that got derailed by the urge to drink. And forget about surfing it, my head was just in pure agreement with the urge. I don't get this. This is the same head that ceaselessly deconstructs all parts of the program - yet can't get a grip on some basic consequential thinking (ie: drink = consequences). I grabbed my bag, and knew if I hurried I'd make the lunchtime meeting (only one a day here). So I went. And I listened. And I shared how I wanted to drink and all my doubts about how I don't feel that the program can help me. Yet I was there, and I could relate to what others were saying. I do see the undeniable value of being around people who've been there, are there at times, who understand.

I had planned to lay out some of my responses to you R2C, Mary,Cindi ... I think there's plenty to debate, discuss, support. But maybe I'm missing the forest for the trees. Is it possible for me to lay aside aspects of AA that I take issue with? I don't know. I knew I was going to drink today and I have. I'm stopping at a bottle (wine) and it hasn't taken long to kill that. I'm not happy about it, but there you have it. At least I'm traveling with the confessional part of the program and for me that's something. I'm not going to keep it from you - because that won't help me. I just hope that it doesn't turn into one almighty relapse. One thing I'll affirm here though is that I will check in here - and I will go to AA. I have to get through this, and pray? Really pray. I need to get that one too.

I'm so hung up on this flipping disease theory; I hate the idea of that, and I flat out don't believe it. It's something that's irked me form the very start. It's one of those rigid beliefs in me that just won't budge. So I took that into the meeting too and let it all hang out there. What I heard before I shared though really cut through. This guy didn't talk of his disease - he talked about the obsession - and that is where I can jump on-board with AA. That's a bloody start and that's good enough for me. Any damn raft I can get that floats me to sobriety is what I need right now.

My husb is not going to be pleased I've drunk today, and I'm telling him this time, no more bottles under the table, no secrecy like you said Mary.That is progress for me, drinking or not. This gig has to end, if not today, then the next day, or the next, until I get it right. I am obsessed. There's no way that I would have spent the last 8 years researching and writing and journaling on this endlessly if I wasn't. The 22 years before that were spent on and off, on and off, substances galore. If that's not obsession, and evidence of a problem, then I don't know what is.

R2C, I'm glad you're finding peace through AA - that is so reassuring to hear, that it's possible and that I know people, who can find it - and I hear it in meetings too; it's just not registering very well at the moment. I want that too. You too Mary, going through difficult stuff and staying sober. That's not easy. Cindi, don't be ashamed to share your slips, and not just because I have, but because the honesty's half the battle, and you can learn a lot from your lapses/relapses (beliefs behind them/triggers etc). Your kindness and open-mindedness twds my sharing here has not gone unnoticed. Looking out for DG now, and wondering what on earth you'll make of this crazy thread?

I still haven't got this 'call someone before you drink' thing under my belt. I just jump to the next thing: bypass any discussion that stops you from drinking. I really would appreciate you guys hanging in there with me right now if you can. It might not seem like it, but I am trying, and I am sad that I just let 15 days sobriety evaporate. It was just so neat and tidy having my start date as June 1st. Bugger.

[Doggygirl]

WEEKLY AA THREAD - Week of June 15 - June 21st

Hello all! Kayla thank you for getting us started for the week and thank you for your honesty. Above all, I think our honesty with ourselves and with each other is very important. For me, one of the huge opportunities that has come along with sobriety is honesty. My own drinking involved SO much lying to myself and to others that it was like being poisoned inside. Kayla I think your honesty with yourself, your husband and others about your drinking thoughts yesterday (leading up to it) and the actual drinking are a step forward - at least they would be for me - just to keep the toxic substance of lying out of my system if that makes any sense.

I too shared many of those concerns about AA before I decided to just open up to it. I am fiercly independent and generally don't like accepting any suggestions about what I should and shouldn't do - I don't care who they come from. Unless it's somehow all my idea of course. I really did have to realize where that got me. Upon reflection, I think the #1 reason I walked through the AA doors with as open a mind as I could manage was fear of relapse. I was sober, but knew I didn't want another relapse lasting 8 months (or longer, as things seem to get worse with drinking over time, not better). I didn't want to lose the positive ground I felt I gained with AF life. I was having trouble shaking that fear.

I think my #2 reason was reading AA's (AAthlete's) posts and seeing they way he started to approach life's problems and wanting what he has. A calmer and more peaceful way of living. A much better way of handling situations with family. Not my way - which was to lash out with my tongue in defense of the hurts I contstantly felt inside.

Kayla, I so know what you mean about the seemingly trite "isms" that abound. And just like with the Bible, the Constitution, or any other guiding document, there are those who annoyingly quote it in itty bitty pieces - sometimes taking parts out of context - to justify anything and everything they want to. Once I managed to open my mind I realized lots of that was really a minority behavior and style, and I'm not going to like and relate equally to everyone in any situation in life.

I have to run - unfortunately but I am really glad we are talking about this stuff. It's real.

One more quickie - I've never been much for prayer either but that serenity prayer has been a God send for me lately. Dealing with my Dad - especially yesterday in the hospital (a man who is loving but can have a short fuse, and who is now in incredible pain and fear on top of a short fuse) required a lot of serenity and acceptance on my part to stay sane myself. When I see small aspects of the program working in a practical and positive way for me, it keeps me coming back no matter how cornball some of it seems sometimes.

DG

[hiddengoal]

WEEKLY AA THREAD - Week of June 15 - June 21st

Just a quick mirror - this discussion is flat out real, rubber to the road, stuff. I read this thread because of that. I don't go to AA, but do not say I never will. I see it as a method that is available, an honest place, and a place with a great deal of support.

Kayla, I like that 'obsession' choice of words, because it describes how we function very clearly. 'Alcoholic' leaves the behavior associated up for grabs. And 'alcoholic' has so many connotations and judgments attached to it, that too many who could benefit from AA, will never be able to 'wear' the label. For me, I use the phrase 'habit', as it was a 'knee-jerk' 'go drink' response.

I am not yet convinced we need a label to launch our recovery, but I do believe we do need to identify our behavior.

Speaking of 'recovery' - I am liking that word more and more. What is happening to me during this AF time is that I am recovering myself. Peeling back the blankets under which I was hiding to find the nugget of my heart-gut-soul. It is a PROCESS, one where we may falter, but keep moving forward. Once found, then its a rebuilding - building back up in the new. Doing this process with AA might be a bit more efficient and thorough, because of all the collective experience with the AA members, but some of us just 'feel' our way intuitively - that would be me.

I am starting to ramble and really just wanted to let you all know that these discussions are essential, and appreciated, by all of us involved in the process of Recovering Our(true)selves.

[ready2change]

WEEKLY AA THREAD - Week of June 15 - June 21st

DG, I hope all goes well with you Dad..I totally know where your coming from, having similiar issues with my Dad. Bless you for being there for him.

Kayla, I too am not sure "what" this affliciton is with alcohol. Is it a disease? Is it hereditary? Is it an obsession? Is it a bad habit? All I know is that WHATEVER it is, I have it. I too have battled the waking up in the morning with the best intentions of "today is the day" I will quit drinking. And by evening, I think, oh well one more day won't hurt. But it does. It hurts my soul, it hurts my body...it hurts everything I have. I have done drunk for so long, I just want to know what sober is like? And again, with AA, none of us have to embrace everything that is said. I think just having an open mind is the key to being able to "take what you need and leave the rest". (Sorry, I know some of the quotes are annoying, but it is just so fitting here).

So, Kayla, don't feel alone in your struggles. We have all been at that point somewhere in our journey. Please keep coming here and sharing, it really does help.

Hidden Goal...welcome and thank you for your comments.

all of us involved in the process of Recovering Our(true)selves

I love that thought! That totally sums up how I feel at this point in my journey. Like I can finally (hopefully) discover myself.
I too agree with you that drinking is an obssession. Even if it is a disease, then it is a disease of obsession? I love how this thread is evolving.

R2C

[hiddengoal]

WEEKLY AA THREAD - Week of June 15 - June 21st

So easy to think too much....

I bet we can agree on this, "Whatever we call it, its behavior we are trying to change"

[Cinders]

WEEKLY AA THREAD - Week of June 15 - June 21st

Sometimes I wonder if my over thinking and therefore constant relapsing is because I am truly scared to find out what my "true self" is?

I might not like me.

Does that make sense?

Cindi

[ready2change]

WEEKLY AA THREAD - Week of June 15 - June 21st

Cindi...it makes perfect sense! I totally agree. Just this a.m. while walking my doggie, I tried to think of who I am, perhaps as others see me? And I just draw a blank!

But if I don't like me, then there must be things I need to work on? I try to embrace the belief that the things we see in others are the things we don't like in ourselves, and use that when someone is annoying me. Sometimes I can see/agree with that, but many times not?

But in reality, I'm excited to meet the sober me. When I have sober time under my belt, I actually like me. I am much more at peace and easier to get along with. (at least I think so)

Hope this helps.

R2C

[retteacher]

WEEKLY AA THREAD - Week of June 15 - June 21st

Cindi: It makes sense to me too, because I felt that way. I needed to do a complete 4th step on my drinking, & then share it w/my sponsor in order to stop feeling that way. Yes, I did some pretty horrible things because of my drinking. However, now that they are out in the open, I feel I can move forward. I feel scared sometimes...the smallest things overwhelm me, but gradually as I handle things wo/AL, I'm learning that I can go through life sober.

Mary