Thursday Oct 5th

[Allie]

Thursday Oct 5th

Hi.... its me. I feel like a complete intruder here because I am not doing abs. I have been doing great with moderation to the point my husband is complementing me all the time. He can hardly believe it. But I am in Puerto Rico on vacation for a week and I really blew it last night. So I know you are all going...."yep, thats what happens to those moderators." But I thought I would read here because I saw "5 viewing" and clicked on.

Just wanted to say that I am inspired, and wish I wasnt in a place where I was surrounded by free drinks for the next four days. Its really hard. I do fine when I am at home and I buy one bottle of wine and make it last two evenings. To boot.... it is raining! So all my "plans" to stay busy are shot. No snorkeling, no rain forest tour -- its all cancelled. And if I walk out of the door, a waiter says..."can I get you something to drink?"

This stinks.
Allie

[mikeupnorth]

Thursday Oct 5th

Anyone interested -- especially Brigid, Kim, Susan -- check out the Long Term Abstainers forum. I only mention it here because there is usually nothing posted there. I almost never even look any more because this is where all the action is!

[gabby]

Thursday Oct 5th

Mike your gonna make a damm good mayor! and Mack I knew you were busy with your Mrs Mack and Mini Macks. I'm glad your ok and not goin mods. Things are gonna work out I just know it.
Kim, I love nutcases...takes one to know one....ark--ark. Seriously....you seem on a good track.
And I have made a mayoral decision. (while i am still mayor) Lets just keep everything like it is for now cuz I dont want anything to change for now and I love our group that we have. How about we all just keep a conscience effort to stay abs until futher notice. And Lush and all you guys that are sorta on the fence please just keep on comin here cuz we dont wanna scare you off with strict rules and we love your imput too. I think we are smart enough to figure out something that will work for everyone. Love you all. gabbs

[gabby]

Thursday Oct 5th

Hi cute Allie!!!!!!
Nice to see you. I am glad you are getting a vacation. Hummmmm.....you do have a problem there. Who are you with? Hubby? gabbs

[YoungAtHeart]

Thursday Oct 5th

Good Morning All,

I can see there is a tremendous difference in the needs of people who have 50, 100, or 150 days of abs and those who might only have a few days or weeks. I think one's commitment grows as one starts to really experience the benefits of not drinking.

I am tremendously intimidated by all that went on yesterday, as I now start on my 3rd day of Abs. I dont have a WATERTIGHT PLAN. I am just putting on foot in front of the other, trying to recognize what sets me off (dissention on this board being one of them, even if it is HEALTHY growing pains), and trying to get my work done. My big goal right now is getting through the weekend AF, and the last thing I need is to get involved in conflict.

I think that the suggestion that long term abstainers start using that section of the board is a good one. And Brigid, my silence was deafening because I was sleeping. It wouldn't have been good for me, in my fledgling efforts at ABs to attempt to respond to all that was going on here, so I decided to read a book and hit the sack. I can appreciate your views, but I'm not there at this point in time.

I have had my doubts about whether I should be in Absville because of my slips, and I have been very grateful to be able to hang around and gather myself together to try again. I'm sorry that that this sort of thing has been threatening for some people.

To me, this really seems like a turf issue, and a discussion about what is Absville going to be like? Well, as it has been pointed out, there is room for two Absvilles on MWO, one for people who are trying out abs, either in preparation for moderation or for long-term abs, and one for people who are committed to long term abs.

I have liked Absville the way it is, but I don't have the sensitivity to upcoming slips the way that long-termers have. I do think that it would be a good idea to have some sort of guidelines, though; a sort of pre-abs tutorial that would stay "clipped" at the top of the forum so that people could get prepared to do abs and get some sort of toolbox prepared for themselves when they start. This is something that we could all work on together, maybe on the Yahoo groups thing. (That is, if I can ever get on!)

Hugs,
Kathy

[InnerStrength]

Thursday Oct 5th

Thank you Gabbs.
I appreciate that.
Part of my post that ended up deleting and labelling "nevermind" is now addressed by your post. When I posted earlier (and deleted) I was addressing the following:

When it comes to the earlier debates,etc:
I guess I see what everyone is saying but I am VERY concerned whenever I sense that people are starting to get divided into different groups or "camps" (monthly abs versus long terms abs) (even though I know, from a practical perspective why this might be suitable for some purposes), I would only be concerned that by dividing the abs group into different groups or different "threads or camps" that people might not feel that they have the right to post where they feel they need to post (or that we might be inserting some sense of "judgment into absville). I mean, a lot of people (perhaps myself included, take a month by month appoach, and others may even take a "one day at a time" approach"- in fact, I know people who have been sober in AA for 20 years who are sober "one day at a time"). So I guess my point is that, not everyone takes the same approach, although the result may be the same. I dont want people to be scared away from absville, feel judged, or afraid to post, nor do I think anyone else here intends that. I am just throwing that out there as a thought.

What I have always loved about mywayout is the lack of judgment, the fact that people are always open minded. I love this place because it is supposed to be NON judgmental. I never went to an AA meeting and saw someone turned away or sent to another room because they werent sure what they wanted long term or even that very moment. Just some food for thought.

Sorry, but I am just making a point. Arent we all dealing with the same problem here? Shouldnt we all be helping one another?
I hope I am not offending anyone. Does this make sense?
Love you all
jen

[wwbarb]

Thursday Oct 5th

Day 4 for me by the skin of my teeth. I continued an argument with my son at bedtime that we started before schoo. His grades suck only because he is not turning in his homework and he doesn't want to seem to do anything. He is probably one of the smartest (and laziest) kids I have ever met. I asked him what he would do if he were me, and he said "You keep asking me - I don't know - you're the parent" and went back to clicking away on the internet. So I told him that we'd do it my way then -maybe I should pick him up from school everyday and not let him go out until I see his homework. His response was "good luck doing that" and stomped off to bed. So, I put a password on his ID on the computer so that he can't get on. I guess that's my decision - to take away things and basically give him room and board. Beating the crap out of him pops to mind, but I guess that's not an option (is it???) Hubby is not his dad and is not very helpful - I guess he was the "perfect kid" so he doesn't understand my sons behavior and, I guess can't. So, the best thing for him to do is shut up, which he did. Dad is not in the picture - that is a good thing. This would require a thread on its own. Anyway, everyone went to bed, and I sat there stewing in my juices trying to come up with a reason not to have a drink. It finally got to the point where I had to ask myself how it would help and could not come up with an answer. I picked up my knitting for a while and then just went to bed and got a mediocre nights sleep.

What's good for me? I couldn't tell you right now. I feel like if I were a better parent we would not have gotten to this place. Lots of background with my ex that I don't have time to get into. I'm watching him throw his life away - he's in 10th grade and did the same thing last year - and feel helpless to stop him. But I have to realize that this is his decision. He's almost 16 so he is going to make his own decisions. I think his theory is "I'll worry about it tomorrow - tomorrow is another day".

Hi to everyone - no time for personals - will try later.

Barb

[InnerStrength]

Thursday Oct 5th

After I wrote my last post I just had the opportunity to read sweet Kathy's message and in it she says this:

"I have had my doubts about whether I should be in Absville because of my slips, and I have been very grateful to be able to hang around and gather myself together to try again. I'm sorry that that this sort of thing has been threatening for some people".

I am new to absville, so maybe I am overstepping my bounds, but this is what is making me so sad, that kathy is feeling like she perhaps shouldnt be in absville at all, because she might be threatening other people here. Is this what we want????
Because if ultimately people are being scared out of absville, then something is wrong.
I love you kathy.
Jen.

[southernbelle47]

Thursday Oct 5th

What's good for me?

Setting goals.........Abs is my goal
Getting support here....thanks all
Taking care of myself....
Work & play.....
Time to just "be still"...
Watching the sun come up......

I liked Lisa's idea of AF yesterday......
So......Af yesterday.....hope all of you made it too!

Nancy & Belle:l

[sujul]

Thursday Oct 5th

Hey Folks--
I'm now unbelievably late BUT I just have to throw in a couple of thoughts--now, PLEASE bear in mind that I just don't have time to develop them properly....

1) I have much respect for everyone, and everyone's own plan AND the fact that we may all be at different stages on our journey....

2) No one needs to feel judged or excluded! This is simply about different needs and trying to find room for that...

3) Kathy, no one can threaten my sobriety except me! That's part of me reclaiming responsibility for my own life.... You have been a wonderful, shining light on this board and you deserve all the support in the world! I could go on and on about this but hopefully you get the idea! :l

4) This really isn't that much of a biggie--as you rightly pointed out, Kathy, there really are different concerns, etc. as the abs days add up....change happens, perspectives shift, different challenges present themselves....

THIS IS NOT A BAD THING! But this brings with it the reality that you start needing a different sort of support and a different place to share some of the long-term specific stuff....

Can't we have it both ways?? A place for folks to be exploring what their new lives are going to look like AND a place for those who have come to the conclusion that their new lives MUST be alcohol-free?? This does not need to be at all threatening! And this is all about "virtual" places anyway--it's not like we're actually going to GO anywhere!

We are definitely all after the same result--healing our damaged selves and our broken lives...having different boards/threads to address different needs in no way changes that...

It's all good. Really, it is!
:h
susan

[gabby]

Thursday Oct 5th

Yes, Jenn and Kathy it does make sense. And I was thinkin the same stuff all along too. That is why it stayed under out hats...myself, Brigid, Susan, Neil, Mike....etc.
I am the first to admit that I never thought I was going past 30 days abs. Hell....I wasn't even sure I'd get the 5 that you have Jenn. There is no way we can talk long term abs here from the start. And I know you guys don't think we are.
No one more then us....understand more then anyone the struggle it is to give up the drink. Guys.....I didn't even know I was....I just came to a place that I really put my heart in to it. Surrendered...so to speak. Got some tools like Mike said. Put one foot in front of the other like Kathy said. Took one day at a time like Jenn said. And look....here I am! Am I there? No Flippin Way! And a huge part of my journey is encouraging those not as far as myself. That is so healing to me. But if I open my heart and let that feeling in....I cant guard it when the frustration hits of your falls...ya know?
And like Brigid sais....it reminds us of the powerlessness of the disease that could overcome even us...just a smidge futher in our journey then you maybe...are we?
We are all vulnerable too. I think our stand as longer abbers isnt perfection or rightousness....it is fear. Fear for you and fear for me.
So.....I really dont believe that there should be any division of us abbers. Instead we do need to keep our unity. But also a understanding....for us that are longer term abbers...your slip is not my slip.
But for you newer abbers, we are all here together. Like an AA meeting....we are a union. It doesn't matter who we are. Professional or non professional. White or black. American or United Kingdomie (pickin on you mack)...but we are here for the same reason. We are alcoholics to one degree or anther. And we support each other. And don't really take it lightly. And guys....when you slip....it hurts us. That unity thing mushes our boundaries I think. We arent mad ar you. We arent even frustrated....I cant say. But it hurts me....I think it could'a been me.....and i feel some of your pain. Yet I see the rationalization of you and even us makin your slip ok all in the name of love and support.
And it scares me. The powerlessness of the disease. And I wanna come in cyberland and knock your head.... and then sit, and hold you, and cry with you.
So anyway....if I dont have you cryin now that's good cuz if your like me you need to be working and not crying.
All this is purely from caring.

Gonna flip the question. zlskksdfjhfjk
That was a throat clear. Who knows how to type that? So instead of asking what the shorter term abbers what they want from absville.....I want to ask the longer term abbers what you want from absville?

If absville is gonna not be say as abbszie as longer term as we thought.....or what ever it was.....i dont remember now. lol
What do we want out of it? And what are we gonna do about it if it isnt as say strick as we would like to see? Are there any changes we would like and what are they?
Now that this is all out in the open....do you want 2 absvilles?
I personally don't want any division.

[gabby]

Thursday Oct 5th

Barb, I so relate to your post. I'm gonna respond to you a bit later. I have so run out of time. grrr

[Mackeral]

Thursday Oct 5th

Hmm...I'm not sure if i'm getting this right...I'm not sure a division is a good idea...somebody mentioned the other day about seeing people as mentors..i know i did....i've dropped the ball twice in 4 months....It would have been more if not for Susan Brigid Kathy Gabby and so on....
I made a massive mistake the other day posting while i'd had a drink and mentioning mods..As Brigid quite rightly pointed out i shouldnt make decisions while under the influence....

I also think a lot of long term abbers have become this way due to going short term and getting support from the veterans...I think its almost like saying if your only doing abs for the month your on your own.....I dunno
Its not up to me and it might be worth a try...

I suppose im just scared of losing a good thing...I like things the way they are......There are some wise people here....I hope this works out.....Mack

[Mackeral]

Thursday Oct 5th

We were posting about the same thing Gabby at the same time......But you said it better

[gabby]

Thursday Oct 5th

ok quick question?????
How do we so called veterans (hi mack) be loving and supportive....(this is a parenting question for us too barb and janet and kathy) yet.....be firm and, and, well whatever....to be good mentors. I mean how do we be good for you beyond just being AF? Not that we are looking for a concequence for you. Alright Mack....write 1000 times....I will not drink Stella's. But seriously folks.....help us....give us some ideas on how to deal with our feelings when you guys slip. I think our feelings are only human too. Yes, its boundaries...we know this. gabbs
(damm this is turnin into a good topic)