Tuesday, October 24th

[YoungAtHeart]

A Valuable AA Rule

One of the ?Rules? that I have always valued from the AA tradition is the rule of talking from your own experience. At meetings, they will usually state this right in the beginning of a meeting. ?When you speak, speak from your own experience.? This rule, I believe, is meant to help keep meetings from deteriorating into people starting to make a lot of ?YOU? statements, giving unsolicited advice, working people?s programs other than their own, etc. I think it?s a pretty good rule.

We don?t always follow it here at MWO, and for the most part, we don?t follow it because people are ASKING for advice and help, and that?s a good thing. Also, it sometimes isn?t followed because people are spontaneously reaching out to offer comfort support, and camaraderie, and they often use ?YOU? statements in an attempt to help lessen others? guilt and/or shame when they stumble.

Relationships usually run more smoothly when we say, ?I feel, I think, I want, or I would like? rather than ?You think, You always, You this and You that? blah, blah, blah?. Yet, it is really hard to speak from the ?I? position, because it makes you more vulnerable. You are exposing yourself?your thoughts and your feelings to another, and hoping they will respond with their thoughts and feelings. They are the basis for our being able to relate authentically to each other.

Most of the time ?YOU? statements are okay and mean no harm. I am very aware, however, when we start to hide behind them as a way to avoid revealing ourselves and focus on the OTHER. You know, the old ?best defense is a good offense? concept? Fortunately, I don?t see a lot of that going on here, and I am glad for that. It is one of the things that makes me feel safe and comfortable here.

I know that for someone who is talking about making ?You? statements, I?ve used a lot of ?You?s? in this post, but it sounded really awkward when I used the words, ?When one does this and when one does that!? :H Just a little TOO prim and proper for me!

Hope you all have a good day!

Hugs,
Kathy:l

[dilayne]

Tuesday, October 24th

Mornin' Kathy and all to come..
Thanks for getting us started today. I did have a comment on Giggless's post...I've been a long time poster on another Alcohol in Moderation thread under a different forum, and we often had a lurker come in with similar comments...my response to the 'accusation' of someone being an alcohol would be.."and your point is"?...I personally don't assign my condition to the label 'alcoholic'..not that I am in denial about my addictive nature, but because it is just a word that points to a condition..I chose not to get attached to the 'word' a long time ago, which means I also chose not to assign a judgement to it and what it points to..it's neither good, nor bad..the condition is what it is..and the word is just a word (to me). So, when someone wants to simply deduct another person's behavior or relationship to alcohol to the word and that be the final judgement, I know that they are probably living with a hung jury every day of their lives if they are drinking alcoholically..not only to their own souls but anyone else that comes into their sphere of consciousness that resonates with that behavior.

The good news is that today, alcoholics are not thrown into an insane asylum like they were not too long ago (althought this kind of thinking obviously still lurks (no pun intended)..and now science and religion are both looking at addiction in much broader ways...very good news...anyway, to Giggless...you are coming to this site for a reason, it may be helpful for you to remove your judgement around alcoholism (forgive me for this statement...judge ye, lest ye be judged) This is what is meant by that..to me, it's not that God or some external entity is going to judge you...it means that you will live in the hell of your own inner condemnation. It may help you more than you know..not to mention other's that you want to relate to here.

I hope everyone has a wonderful day..I have a week AF now..I'm feeling so much better. I did stop the topamax when I decided to go abstinent..I went back on it (I think I took it for 4 days) after the two week 'slip'...I've done this because I took it because I needed to control my bingeing because this would happen from time to time when I was 'drinking'...I needed something to help me moderate because I'd opened the door to drinking...Now that drinking is not an option, I don't feel the need for the topamax (nor the side effects). This feels good..I've felt bad for too long now..either with alcohol in my otherwise 'very clean' system, or the chemical from the topamax. I know this for sure, once I made the decision for abstinence, I am relieved and the desire to drink is gone..and that was the case when I stopped before..I feel particularly good because I gave myself 5 days to make the decision instead of making it from a place of guilt or remorse after a binge or after abusing alcohol. Also, my husband is stopping with me..that is huge. I will continue to follow the rest of the program...hopefully more diligently as I know how vulnerable I can get..particularly when harmones fluctate.

Namaste!
Di

[mikeupnorth]

Tuesday, October 24th

Good morning!

Thanks, Kathy, for the very timely reminder. I agree that it's not our place or style here to try and force our opinion on anyone else. I don't think that was anyone's intention yesterday, either -- but it IS the way the post came across. It just goes to show the power of language. In communications classes I have taken, I've heard that something like 90% of what we communicate is in body language, facial expression, etc. and only 10% in the actual words. We obviously don't get the body language in this setting -- so the power of the words is increased to 100%. What we say is even more powerful in this context than it would otherwise be. The same words we might say face-to-face, meant in a friendly or harmless way, can seem cold and unfriendly in written form. That's why I make a point of re-reading my posts, and often edit them. Lord knows we are all going through enough in our lives here -- we don't need any added drama!

Macks, I hope you are doing well today.

Giggles if you are reading all of this I hope you don't feel attacked. It's just that we all like to play nice here. We all pretty much acknowledge the truth about our situation and are here for mutual support.

Di -- I know just what you mean about making a decision to be AF from a clear head and body, rather than from the remorse and sickness after a binge. I swore off alcohol countless times on hangover days, and within a few days I was feeling better and ready to drink again. This time around it took me a month of working this program before I was really ready to commit to sobriety. By then I had dabbled with moderation (unsuccessfully) but also had enough AF days under my belt to be able to make the decision with a rational mind. It makes a big difference.

I would also like to think that I could get off Topamax eventually. I really don't want to stay on it forever, but I will if I have to. For the moment, this early in sobriety (36 days) I am relying on it to keep the monster at bay. It immediately took the cravings away when I hit the 200 mg dose. For the moment I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing -- and strengthen the other parts of my program for the long haul.

Hope you all have a great day!

Mike

[vinophile]

Tuesday, October 24th

I'm going to relate a story which is pertinent to my current struggle with the wine bottle. I hope it makes sense; if not forgive me.

I have a dog who is very food-driven.If you open the drawer where we keep his treats he will jump through rings of fire to get to you at that drawer. The drawer makes a squeak when you open it.If he is outside,at the end of the yard,and you open that drawer he will be at the door in 2 seconds.He will rattle the door until the house shakes. If there ever comes a day that I open the drawer and he does not immediately appear I will assume that something is very wrong and rush him to the vet.

For a long time now soon after my husband arrives home in the evening he will pull out the corkscrew and POP open the nightly bottle of wine. Like my dog, as soon as I hear that POP I am at his side waiting for my glass of wine(my treat). Of late, because I am not drinking, I hide when I hear that pop. It is only 9 days and the sound of that pop is getting harder and harder to resist.My husband,although he knows that I am attempting abstinence,continues to offer me a glass.He does not understand why I'm giving up something that seemingly was enjoyable to me.He will have a glass or a glass and a half and then lose interest. He does not push me to drink but, at the same time, does not understand my problem drinking.

My problem lies in that 1) I'm changing the almost nightly ritual which was comfortable and 2) watching this ritual is undermining my determination and 3)after a certain time elapses I begin to think I really can have that wine or that" one glass won't hurt"

That is my current problem in staying abs. Macks( and I am thinking of you and hoping you're doing better) had asked this so... voila.
No easy solution.... if there was I guess we wouldn't be here
Have a good day
Janet

[dilayne]

Tuesday, October 24th

Hi Janet, i know what you mean. It really wasn't until my (our) therapist explained to my husband that some people just are wired differently..somehow when he said it to him, he understood it and has been able to support me in my decision to go Abs..it certainly would have been much harder (and my therapist agreed) for one of us to drink and not the other. Fortunately he agreed to go Abs with me..because..afterall, he COULD take it or leave it and was willing to leave it for me. I had to really get that I could ask him to do that for me..we ARE married, we have a relationship..and if he were to be in the same situation, I would do the same for him in a heart beat. I know that it isn't always an option, but don't dismiss automatically...I mean, I know some people (especially many of us) would carry the entire burden on ourselves..another way to stay separate from others...It was a real gift to be able to ask my husband and my therapist what right I have to ask my husband for support and help with my problem. Of course getting him to join me in therapy took a while, and I've been doing it for a while..but I was somewhat surprised at how I was thinking before..that I had no right to ask him to help me...I don't know if this will be helpful to you or not. Maybe you and he together can find some ways that he can support your efforts. When he knows how hard it is and how much you want it, he may be willing to support you in ways unimagined yet. ?

[dilayne]

Tuesday, October 24th

Janet, I also wanted to add that we've recently cancelled our cable T.V. (my husband's addiction) and we are also looking for ways to change our nightly rituals..which were becoming..wine and t.v...today it is on my list to create a Things To Do list because we are coming home to a little bit of a void..forgetting about all the things we've talked about doing..going through old photos, starting a scrap book, watching old family movies, planning a trip to the Grand Canyon...by the end of a long day at work, we've both forgotten all these things..so we're making a list to help us remember when our brains are worn from the day.

[YoungAtHeart]

Tuesday, October 24th

Great Point, Dilayne. If your spouse can take it or leave it, it would be great if they could leave it! It's good that your therapist could explain the different "wiring" to your husband.

[vinophile]

Tuesday, October 24th

Thanks,Di, some great thoughts!!!!I do indeed think we are re-wired differently and that's a great way to put it. Especially to someone like my husband, who would not want to hear that I was an alcoholic. In a way, and I could be wrong, I think it might scare him. I think he views me as a very stable and in control. Probably true,except in the case of alcohol; and I know that's a big exception!!
Changing rituals will help. It is so easy to fall back on what seems comfortable.
Forntunately, he just called and said that his stomach is bothering him and he wasn't going to drink or eat nuts(another habit) for the next few days. I don't even know if he realizes that I haven't been drinking with him.Of course if he did the re-cycling I'm sure he'd notice the difference in the number of bottles
Janet

[southernbelle47]

Tuesday, October 24th

Hey Absville,

I'm late here but have had a good day.
I got up early and drove my neighbor's son to take a test for entry into fire-school! He's a good kid , just had some hard knocks in life. His mom was on drugs and left him and his brother and their dad when he was about 7-8 . He is almost 21 now and finished highschool but needs some direction. I guess it's good that my nest has emptied out so I have time and patience to do this.
Kathy.......You statements........hummmmm....I agree 100%... Nothing puts me on the defence quicker!

Mike..yes! communication is only 7-10% words! Body language and tone of voice "say " more than words!

Janet and Di..... Husbands that agree and understand about how hard it is to stop if they still are....PRICELESS! I have asked....the answer is no. He says ...."YOU need to control it"....There's that word, Kathy!!!

Mack......we miss you.....hope you and the family are having a good vacation.

Well, I guess you guys are going to have me as mayor for a couple of days. Anybody want to take a few days after Thursday?

I have to go think of something important to say for tomorrow! This may take a while!

Love you all who come here post or no!
Nancy
AF 10

[freckles]

Tuesday, October 24th

man i hate it when i spent alot of time writing this great post and then POOF it's gone cause i hit the wrong key. well to sum up what just took me a half hour to write:

a.)i think i'm here for a while. i've been on day 4 before but this feels different.

b.)you are all great company on this unexpected adventure into my self.

c.)vino - i'm in the same boat as you. changing the ritual solves the day to day problem but what about the big problem? that they don't want to think of us as weak or having a really serious problem? if they can take it or leave it, why the hell is it still in the house? i don't want to deprive him of something he enjoys, but really, why? what scares me is maybe he won't love me without it...i was a crazy young party animal when he fell for me and now i'm not so crazy or young, and thats all thats left of our previous life together. maybe i'll be too different sober. sorry i didn't mean to make this about me. and i'm being negative when everyone else said nice things about good husbands.

d.) dilayne - i love your ideas about family time and canceling the cable! oh i'm jealous of you right now! can we switch husbands? if not you'll have to at least let me in on how you got him to give up cable!

[dilayne]

Tuesday, October 24th

Freckles...believe me..you DON'T want my husband....naww, just kidding! I couldn't resist. :0)

[freckles]

Tuesday, October 24th

i can accept that,i suppose, but i would love to know how you got him to therapy with you, and how you cut the cable cord. these are major issues for me and i've addressed them but nothing really changes. i hope to get to the point you are at sooner than later...

[dilayne]

Tuesday, October 24th

Freckles..I'm happy to talk about it anytime..my email address is in my profile. The short story is that I went to therapy for a year first..after unpeeling the onion, so to speak, and going through the process of becoming more of who I am, I've been able to bring that to our relationship..which almost fell apart because of it..things that I tolerated in our relationship (my behavior and his) became unacceptible..when he realized that we had to both grow if we were going to make it, that is when he was willing to go with me and he sees that I'm not trying to change him or control him..now he is more trusting in the vision that I hold for our marriage. Hope that makes sense..it's been a long journey, I have to admit, but I've been very committed to not having a mediocre marriage and was willing to move on if we couldn't continue to grow..we could not grow if we were drinking and he was hiding his feeling behind the boob tube.
Good luck and I'm glad you are here!

[TracyA]

Tuesday, October 24th

Just have a sec and probably won't have much time for the next couple weeks, so if I seem unresponsive, it is not because I don't care.

The AA thing - Yes, I like it. I think it's probably followed here more than there. :H

Our local ACoA takes it one step further - you are not supposed to in any way address anything that anyone else says in a meeting. I understand it, and I think in that context it is helpful, but it can feel pretty weird sometimes.

Hope everyone who is struggling hangs in there. It's a journey and is bound to get rocky sometimes.

Hugs to all,

Tracy

[freckles]

Tuesday, October 24th

what's ACoA?