Weekly AA Thread - Sept. 27 - Oct. 2

[retteacher]

Hi Everyone:

I'm starting this out this week. I hope all is well.

Mary

[retteacher]

Weekly AA Thread - Sept. 27 - Oct. 2

Last night's BB meeting was great! We read Bill's story which is always pretty inspirational. What was really inspirational was that a great guy & friend got his one-year medallian last night. It was very emotional. He's kind of rough & ready & spent a lot of years drinking heavily. He's so happy now that he's sober...you can't miss the glow. Afterwards I spoke to him about his anniv. & sobriety. He said that his younger kids didn't even know him sober until now. He spent a lot of time on planet a-hole (as he put it). He did everything he was supposed to do:
-got a sponsor
-did service (he's now speaking at a local jail)
-really joined the AA community & goes to social events
-took suggestions
-shared at meetings
-etc.

When a person is ready, nothing stands in the way:
-pride
-shyness
-fear
-busyness
-etc.

I'm doing well. We had our g-sons for the entire weekend, & while I love them, it's stressful. Today, I'm reflecting on the many times I drank through b-sitting jobs. My daughter & SIL came home early enough for me to go to my Sun. night meeting. I left the mess for today, because a meeting is more important than straightening up the house. That's a step in the right direction for me...I'm understanding my priorities...sobriety first!

Mary

[rebirth]

Weekly AA Thread - Sept. 27 - Oct. 2

Hi Mary,

I agree with you too..sobriety first. Will be attending a meeting this week and really looking forward to it. I also think about how my day would be if I was drinking through it. I would have missed out alot!

I am so grateful for my sobriety today. I am miserable as sin but still grateful!!

[Cherbear]

Weekly AA Thread - Sept. 27 - Oct. 2

Hi everyone,

Just started my service position this evening.. It was kind of funny, I took over coffee making for a guy who used to grumble about doing it, but when push came to shove I think he wishes he could keep doing it.. but they all said that a new comer should be taking over. and he is an old timer. I might ask him to sub for me some to ease the transition )

Mary.. I really agree that when you're ready nothing will stop you, I sure know that because I tried to quit so many times. but this time with AA and all its scariness I was ready!!! God grabbed me and said thats enough now!

gotta go to bed now but I hope everyone has a great week.

[retteacher]

Weekly AA Thread - Sept. 27 - Oct. 2

It does talk about readiness in the BB. I too went through many, many relapses & restarts before I was absolutely ready to give up drinking for good. I had to wrap my head around:
-going through difficulties wo/a crutch
-finding other ways to deal w/stress
-enjoying myself wo/becoming drunk...which turned out to be not so much fun...sober fun is 100% better.

Last night's speaker meeting was something else. The guy's story was quite amazing. Without some kind of miracle, he could never have recovered...that's how deep he was into his addictions. I walked out shaking my head. Yes, I'm an alcoholic, but there are degrees. As my friend in AA says: "I got off the elevator at a higher floor."

Mary

[dancelot]

Weekly AA Thread - Sept. 27 - Oct. 2

Hi, everyone -

I wasn't going to post anything today, but came across another thread in general, and suddenly the relevance jumped out at me, so I will.

Last night at my 12 & 12 meeting we discussed Tradition 9:

9. A.A., as such, ought never be organized; but we may create service boards
or committees directly responsible to those they serve.
I tried to post the link, but it shows up only as the quote above, not as a link. It can be found on the AA website. Here are some excerpts (actually the first half of the chapter - I did not edit this except the bolded areas are mine).

WHEN Tradition Nine was first written, it said that
“Alcoholics Anonymous needs the least possible organi-
zation.” In years since then, we have changed our minds
about that. Today, we are able to say with assurance that
Alcoholics Anonymous—A.A. as a whole—should never
be organized at all. Then, in seeming contradiction, we
proceed to create special service boards and committees
which in themselves are organized. How, then, can we have
an unorganized movement which can and does create a ser-
vice organization for itself? Scanning this puzzler, people
say, “What do they mean, no organization?”

Well, let’s see. Did anyone ever hear of a nation, a church,
a political party, even a benevolent association that had no
membership rules? Did anyone ever hear of a society which
couldn’t somehow discipline its members and enforce obe-
dience to necessary rules and regulations? Doesn’t nearly
every society on earth give authority to some of its mem-
bers to impose obedience upon the rest and to punish or
expel offenders? Therefore, every nation, in fact every form
of society, has to be a government administered by human
beings. Power to direct or govern is the essence of organi-
zation everywhere.

Yet Alcoholics Anonymous is an exception. It does not
conform to this pattern. Neither its General Service Con-
ference, its Foundation Board,* nor the humblest group
committee can issue a single directive to an A.A. member
and make it stick, let alone mete out any punishment. We’ve
tried it lots of times, but utter failure is always the result.
Groups have tried to expel members, but the banished have
come back to sit in the meeting place, saying, “This is life
for us; you can’t keep us out.” Committees have instructed
many an A.A. to stop working on a chronic backslider, only
to be told: “How I do my Twelfth Step work is my business.


Who are you to judge?” This doesn’t mean an A.A. won’t
take advice or suggestions from more experienced mem-
bers, but he surely won’t take orders. Who is more unpopu-
lar than the oldtime A.A., full of wisdom, who moves to
another area and tries to tell the group there how to run its
business? He and all like him who “view with alarm for the
good of A.A.” meet the most stubborn resistance or, worse
still, laughter.

You might think A.A.’s headquarters in New York
would be an exception. Surely, the people there would have
to have some authority. But long ago, trustees and staff
members alike found they could do no more than make
suggestions, and very mild ones at that. They even had to
coin a couple of sentences which still go into half the let-
ters they write: “Of course, you are at perfect liberty to
handle this matter any way you please. But the majority
experience in A.A. does seem to suggest…”
Now, that attitude is far removed from central government, isn’t it? We
recognize that alcoholics can’t be dictated to—individually
or collectively.


At this juncture, we can hear a churchman exclaim,
“They are making disobedience a virtue!” He is joined by a
psychiatrist who says, “Defiant brats! They won’t grow up
and conform to social usage!” The man in the street says,
“I don’t understand it. They must be nuts!” But all these
observers have overlooked something unique in Alcoholics
Anonymous. Unless each A.A. member follows to the best
of his ability our suggested Twelve Steps to recovery,
he almost certainly signs his own death warrant.
His drunkenness and dissolution are not penalties inflicted by people
in authority; they result from his personal disobedience to
spiritual principles.

The same stern threat applies to the group itself. Un-
less there is approximate conformity to A.A.’s Twelve Tra-
ditions, the group, too, can deteriorate and die. So we of
A.A. do obey spiritual principles, first because we must,
and ultimately because we love the kind of life such obedi-
ence brings. Great suffering and great love are A.A.’s disci-
plinarians; we need no others.

To me this is one of the best things about the program - the lack of rules or leaders. "The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking." That is the only rule.

If I felt I had to do it a certain way, on a certain timeline, my participation would depend on whether it was always in my comfort zone. I know me - and I am now honest not only with myself about it, but with others. I can't express enough how big a step that is for me. There is no set way to do the steps, different sponsors go about it differently, there is no one right way. Just knowing that makes me 100% more open to it. Someone compared it to why she never could get into organized religion, because of she was always going to question the rules. We are free to choose to be here and participate or not - no one forces us to come or can force us to leave.

Just the fact we are free to discuss openly, without fear of judgement, anything, including our fears or resistance, or whatever, even of AA itself, or the steps, or whatever is really amazing to me. Even the 12 Steps are "suggestions," according to the BB. The only step that we must do 100% is Step 1 - admit we are powerless over alcohol. This was a huge relief to me, once I did admit it. If good intentions and willpower were enough, well I think we'd all overcome a lot easier! Yeah, I am definitely powerless over alcohol - once I take a drink. That does not make me powerless as an individual. If anything, realizing and accepting my own limitations makes me more empowered. Some things I am great at, some I am a disaster, so what? It is up to me to use my strengths, and find ways to work around the other - including admitting what I can't do and finding another solution.

I know I thought (and obviously many others do as well) that AA was some rigid, judgmental organization that was going to tell us in a "my way or the highway" way that we had to live, and it would definitely not be pleasant. One of the long term sober members of our group, who hated the idea of it when she found out that was a required part of her treatment, often comments "how the last thing she expected of AA was that it would be so much fun!"

When I first came there one member, by his own admission was very resistant to all of it coming in, would advise us newbies to take what you can get from it, even if it's not all of it, or most of it, or it makes no sense, or you don't like it or whatever. Use what you can right now, don't discard the whole program because some things put you off. By the end of his first 90 days, he had opened up to a lot more of it. "Progress not perfection."

I see a lot of variation on how people go about their program, and there's always someone who experienced or is experiencing it the same way as me. No one ever tries to remake me in their own image. I am free to hear all sides, all ways, how different people go about it, and always decide for myself.

I had a great time after the meeting too, and got to know a couple of people better (and them me). It's so great to be able to talk openly and freely to others about something other than superficial topics and facts about ourselves. I was there for almost an hour after and felt so good when I left. Almost perfection, definitely progress.

[rebirth]

Weekly AA Thread - Sept. 27 - Oct. 2

Dancelot - THAT was a fabulous read. Thank you so much for posting it. x

[retteacher]

Weekly AA Thread - Sept. 27 - Oct. 2

Dance: I too love that the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. You don't even have to admit to being an alcoholic. I also see a wide variation in the way people go through the program, & also in the way people sponsor other alcoholics. I have a sponsor now who is very laid-back. I'm working on step 1, & she hasn't given me a deadline or urged me to go more quickly. I have a pamphlet that I'm working with at my own pace.

I didn't have any resistance to AA once I admitted that I couldn't control my drinking & would never be able to drink like a normal person. I do hear people:
-express doubts
-have erratic attendance at meetings
-express resistance to meetings, HP, spirituality, the 12 steps, etc.
-relapse, come back, & relapse again
-etc.

I have never seen anyone condemn or become judgemental...even the oldtimers.

Mary

[rebirth]

Weekly AA Thread - Sept. 27 - Oct. 2

Hi Mary.

Oh forgot to ask this question. If someone sponsors you, should they have completed step work. Should they also be sober for a certain length of time?

[Doggygirl]

Weekly AA Thread - Sept. 27 - Oct. 2

Hi everyone! Mary, thanks for starting us off this week and for all your great posts. I have always loved, and still love how you are able to summarize things in such an understandable way!

Cher, I love your story about the old timer and the coffee. Yes, I'm sure he would love to help you!

rebirth, I know I'm not Mary, but hope you don't mind if I weigh in on your question about sponsors. I didn't realize it at the time I asked her to sponsor me, but my first sponsor had not completed the steps. I just assumed that since she had 5 years sobriety in AA, she must have done them. That was not the case and it turned out to be a big problem between us. Whether that is important depends on what you are looking for in a sponsor. IMO, nobody can teach you the steps (if that's part of what you are looking for in a sponsor) if they have not done the steps themselves under the the guideance of a sponsor.

On the other hand...

I was asked to sponsor someone before I had completed the steps. Here is what I did:

1. I was up front about where I was in the steps myself
2. I spoke to my own sponsor to get some direction in the matter
3. I agreed to be a temporary sponsor with the understanding that if I did not complete the steps myself, that she should definitely find someone else. (this stuff was NOT up front with my first sponsor)

In addition to feeling a connection with a sponsor who has completed the steps herself, I want my sponsor to have a strong sponsor.

Dance, I love your post. I too love that the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. I really enjoy studying the traditions. I'm glad I accidentally found myself in a weekly 12&12 meeting. It is so very amazing to me that AA has lasted 75 years with no real organization and just 12 guiding priniciples (traditions). One of the ladies in my home groups tells about her early times in service work (GSR I think) when desputes would arise, and she would call the General Service Office in New York wanting to know "who is right." They always sent her back to the group to figure it out by group conscience. She is very funny the way she tells this.

I too had all sort of perceptions (NEGATIVE!) about AA before I went. Bottom line is that these people truly care about each other and about me. And about everyone who shows up with a desire to stop drinking. These people *give* an amazing amount of themselves with no expectation of anything in return. Are there bad apples in the bunch? Well, it's a bunch of humans so it's certainly not perfect. But it's on whole one of the better collections of people I have ever been around, and I am proud to be a member of AA.

Had a great conversation about Step 3 in the tough chicks meeting on Friday, with more discussion today with Sister. I'm seeing that for me, "will" is a spectrum. On one end is my total self will, and on the other end is a perfect following of HP's will (doing what is right) in action, thought, and heart. I'm thankful I am not longer living on the total self will end of the spectrum as I was for the most part in my later drinking years. I am starting to see how fabulous it would feel to live life at the other end of the spectrum, not only doing the next right thing but also being completely aligned with those right things in my mind and heart. As it is, I of course do not always do the right thing. And very often, I DO the right thing but I'm fighting my self will over it in my mind and/or heart. (i.e. on Sunday I gave a couple of the guys a ride to the meeting, which was the right thing. But I didn't "fell like it" that day, and fought myself about calling it off - for totally selfish reasons). Progress, not perfection. But when it all lines up, it sure feels better than when I'm fighting it!

Don't know if that makes sense, but a much longer version of that thinking is what's been on my mind since tough chicks last friday. It's cool how we can continue growing in these steps each time we study them.

DG

[rebirth]

Weekly AA Thread - Sept. 27 - Oct. 2

Good morning,

Sigh. Just had a text off a newbie who had quit the same time as I did. She is drinking again and is in a complete state. She cant stop drinking and is talking about suicide.Her mother has a brain tumor and its made her worried sick. This friend had a great sponsor and was doing step work so I dont understand what went wrong.. ??

I dont have a sponsor yet and I only read up on the AA books, do yoga, try and eat healthily... Dont know what I am trying to say. I just feel very sad for my friend as I cant help her. She told me not to go back to drinking. That it's not worth it. Buzz is there for a few minutes and then the addiction comes back with a vengence. Please pray for her. x

[Doggygirl]

Weekly AA Thread - Sept. 27 - Oct. 2

Rebirth :l

At the end of the day, it's all about making a CHOICE not to take the first drink. If we are not drinking, we still have the CHOICE. For me, once I make a choice to drink the first one, I lose my choice and I'm right back in the rut.

Having a sponsor, working the steps, etc. strengthens our resolve and ability to make the right choice and not take that first drink. But it's not a guarantee, unfortunately. Just makes it easier (at least for me it does).

*Life* is still going to happen. Don't do what your friend did. Don't lose hope. We are all not doomed to relapse - think of the many people you know here and at AA who have NOT relapsed any time lately.

I too have had a friend relapse not too long ago in AA. She had become a very close friend of one of my sponsees. What we both (me and sponsee) learned from the experience is that we can't *make* anyone sober up. All we can do is offer help in the form of a choice. It's up to the addict to decide what they want to do. Even when the addict is frightfully impaired, their drinking is still their responsibility.

If you are looking for suggestions on how you might help, I encourage you to get the input of others who know her. Or ask her sponsor what you might be able to do. I'm thinking along the lines of offer to pick her up and go to a meeting together. For me, if someone is not willing to get back to their program (by going to a meeting, or checking into rehab or hospital if it's really bad, etc.) then there is probably not a lot I can do. Engaging without a specific agreement like that has ended up with just requests to go get more booze, etc. for me.

Anyway...I know how unsettling this is, especially when you are seeing it for the first time. Treasure your sobriety and fight like hell to keep it, no matter what ever happens in your life.

DG

[retteacher]

Weekly AA Thread - Sept. 27 - Oct. 2

It's still very difficult for me to see people relapse. I was just talking about it to my husb last night. There are a few people from my first days in AA, whom I thought were very solid that I no longer see at meetings. I know that some, of not all, are probably "out there." I try to remember that I too am always vulnerable to relapse. I find that the deeper my committment to AA, through service & attendance to meetings, the less likely my chances of relapse. I didn't come all this way, fighting through life's ups & downs, to relapse now. No way!

[universal]

Weekly AA Thread - Sept. 27 - Oct. 2

Hi guys,

I just found this thread and love it. I have been active in AA for the past 2 months and have really enjoyed the fellowship. I'm glad I can share it with others here.

Rebirth - I am sorry to hear of your friend. I agree with DG that you can help by taking her to a meeting, contacting her sponsor etc., but other than that she has to be willing to work her own program. I hope things work out for her and I will pray for her.

Thanks everyone for helping me to maintain my sobriety. Here's to another sober and healthy 24.

Uni

[retteacher]

Weekly AA Thread - Sept. 27 - Oct. 2

Uni: Welcome to this thread. I hope you'll join in w/sharing from your meetings. Mary