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    #76
    Book Discussion - Big Book of AA

    I decided to reread what I started in The BB, and this time with a highligher. I began with "There Is A Solution"
    "Our very lives, as ex-problem drinkers, depend upon constant thought of others and how we may help their needs". Drinking, in itself, is a selfish act. And when we begin to think of others and what we have to offer them, we are not so caught up in our own inabilities. We begin to focus on the positive outcome of sobriety as a whole.
    "Why can't he stay on the water wagon? What has become of the common sense and will power that he still sometimes displays with respect to other matters?" In other aspects of our lives, this is so simple. And yet for the alcoholic, common sense goes out the window!!
    "The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so-called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink." So true!! The suffering and humiliation usually come at the wee hours of the morning, when we wake up, unable to go back to sleep, with that feeling of remorse eating away at our insides.
    "So many want to stop but cannot." That's self explanatory!
    "Our Creator has commenced to accomplish those things for us which we could never do by ourselves....If you are a serious alcoholic...there is no middle-of-the-road solution." We alcoholics always like to compromise our drinking. Put limitations on our drinking. Or attach rules to our drinking. As the book said, "There is no middle-of-the-road solution!"
    "Today's Test Is Tomorrow's Testimony"

    Comment


      #77
      Book Discussion - Big Book of AA

      GoAwayCab: Thank you for those quotes. They were just what I needed to see. No, there is no "middle-of-the-road solution." I know this, because I tried all of them, from limiting myself to a certain amount to only drinking wine. Nothing worked on my power alone! Will power didn't exist for me. I promised myself each & every day that I wouldn't drink, only to find myself beating a path to the liquor store. Yes, common sense did go out the window. I'd drink an entire bottles of wine, get violently ill, & wonder why I did it. The only people I know of who do that are alcoholics.

      And yes, the suffering & humiliation which come in the "wee" hours. I'm so glad I got a reminder of that. I so clearly remember waking up in the middle of the night, my husband sleeping peacefully beside me, sweating & shaky from all the drinking. I fully knew the insanity but kept doing it anyway.

      No, for me, there is no middle-of-the road solution. I am an alcoholic. I must constantly remember those dark nights of the soul when I drank too much & just couldn't understand why. Why? I'm an alcoholic...it's that simple. I must never forget the many humiliating incidents that led up to my seeking help. If I forget those bad times, I might think: "Well, maybe I can have just one." I can't let the insanity of the first drink enter my life.

      Mary
      Wisdom, Courage, Strength
      October 3, 2012

      Comment


        #78
        Book Discussion - Big Book of AA

        There Is A Solution.

        I can remember when i first went to AA meetings and all i kept on hearing was the word Solution.
        I use to think to myself what the hell are they talking about, i really did not understand it fully, Until i started working on my steps and doing them.
        When i use to go to my group sessions (C.A.T) they seem to focus on the problem instead of the solution.
        We stop empowering the problem and begin to empower the solution, For me the solution is the AA program, someone share the other day in a meeting that the solution is in step 2 and it all makes sense to me. Step 2 Come to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
        We are without defence against the first drink....on page 43 once more The Alcoholic at certain time has no effective mental defence against the first drink. Except in a few rare cases, neither he nor any other human being can provide such a defence. His defence must come from a High Power And that is the answer to the (solution) for ME.
        This Book is just amazing how it is all put together i still cant believe that step 1 and 2 was put together by two Doctors that were non Alcholic's and the last 10steps were from the oxford group non Alcoholic's practicing christanity. (please quote me if i am wrong.)
        But without Bill and DR Bob there would be no book......
        For me as long as i dont lose interest in this program and make it work in my everyday life i should be ok, But once i stop losing that interest by not going, the old Alcoholic mind way of thinking will creep back in and say its ok to just have one drink, when its not ok for me to have one!

        They say it twice as bad if you relapse, because you have a belly full of Alcohol and a head full of AA....

        Today i do have sanity in my life, peace of mind and i am so grateful to AA. And i know if i pick up that first drink the insanity will return plus my mental state of mind.

        :l:h:l catch22 x
        Formerly known as Teardrop:l
        sober dry since 11th Jan '2010' relapse/slip on 23/7/13 working in progress ! Sober date 25/7/13 ( True learning has often followed an eclipse, a time of darkness, but with each cycle of my recovery, the light grows stronger and my vision is clearer. (AA)
        my desire to avoid hitting bottom again was more powerful then my desire to drink !

        Comment


          #79
          Book Discussion - Big Book of AA

          I know I'm defenseless against the first drink. Before AA, I always thought I could get through a day wo/AL, but at some point my brain let in a thought that I could have just one. That would be it! I'd be off & running. I haven't been tempted to drink of late. I really, truly have had the obsession lifted. But, I know that if I drank, I'd have my AA groups to answer to. I know how difficult that would be, because I've seen people do it.

          The sober way of life is so much more relaxing. I don't have to worry about what I say & do anymore. If I make a mistake, it's because I'm human.

          j-vo: I love that you pointed out that AA is solution oriented. I haven't thought about it that way, even though there is a whole chapter: "There is a Solution." Most therapies (I'm not knocking therapy) tend to be problem-oriented. The therapist gets filled in on the problem & hopefully a solution will emerge (or maybe not). With the 12 steps, the solution is laid out clearly & in order. It works if you work it.

          Mary
          Wisdom, Courage, Strength
          October 3, 2012

          Comment


            #80
            Book Discussion - Big Book of AA

            Are we on chapter 3 MORE ABOUT ALCOHOLISM,
            I think in this chapter, they are telling us the truth. I do believe once an alcohlic always alcoholic. sorry have to go.x
            Formerly known as Teardrop:l
            sober dry since 11th Jan '2010' relapse/slip on 23/7/13 working in progress ! Sober date 25/7/13 ( True learning has often followed an eclipse, a time of darkness, but with each cycle of my recovery, the light grows stronger and my vision is clearer. (AA)
            my desire to avoid hitting bottom again was more powerful then my desire to drink !

            Comment


              #81
              Book Discussion - Big Book of AA

              I really enjoyed this chapter because I can really relate to all of the examples, although my examples may be slightly different, the meaning behind them is the same.

              I'm glad that I now know this very important statement: "There is no such thing as making a normal drinker out of an alcoholic." I don't believe science will ever accomplish this.

              "This is the baffling feature of alcoholism as we know it - this utter inability to leave it alone, no matter how great the necessity or the wish." That's how I know I'm alcoholic.

              I liked the whiskey and milk story. We make these foolish assumptions - INSANITY.

              We are unable to stop drinking on the basis of self-knowledge. That first drink will eventually make it's way to my mouth. "The alcoholic at certain times has NO mental defense against the first drink. His defense MUST COME FROM HIS HP. This is our defense against taking that first drink over and over again.
              Sometimes what you're most afraid of doing is the very thing that will set you free.

              Comment


                #82
                Book Discussion - Big Book of AA

                Good stuff everyone.
                Love and Peace,
                Phil


                Sobriety Date 12.07.2009

                Comment


                  #83
                  Book Discussion - Big Book of AA

                  I love reading everyone's comments. I too like the whiskey in the milk story. It's insane, but it's exactly the sort of illogical logic that my drinking episodes followed. Especially in the later years as the battle was raging in my mind - Am I an alcoholic? Surely not! I won't drink today! Etc. etc.

                  Have we got to the part about the jay walker yet? That one took me awhile to "get." The first couple of times I read it, I thought "what??? This is crazy. I must be missing something." But that was the whole point. :H That is how alcoholism must appear to someone who is not alcoholic.

                  I hope to do more reading (in the book) and posting soon!

                  DG
                  Sobriety Date = 5/22/08
                  Nicotine Free Date = 2/27/07


                  One day at a time.

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Book Discussion - Big Book of AA

                    catch22;1022091 wrote: I can remember when i first went to AA meetings and all i kept on hearing was the word Solution.
                    I use to think to myself what the hell are they talking about, i really did not understand it fully, Until i started working on my steps and doing them.
                    When i use to go to my group sessions (C.A.T) they seem to focus on the problem instead of the solution.
                    We stop empowering the problem and begin to empower the solution, For me the solution is the AA program, someone share the other day in a meeting that the solution is in step 2 and it all makes sense to me. Step 2 Come to believe that a Power greater
                    than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
                    We are without defence against the first drink....on page 43 once more The Alcoholic at certain time has no effective mental defence against the first drink. Except in a few rare cases, neither he nor any other human being can provide such a defence. His defence must come from a High Power And that is the answer to the (solution) for ME.
                    This Book is just amazing how it is all put together i still cant believe that step 1 and 2 was put together by two Doctors that were non Alcholic's and the last 10steps were from the oxford group non Alcoholic's practicing christanity. (please quote me if i am wrong.)
                    But without Bill and DR Bob there would be no book......
                    For me as long as i dont lose interest in this program and make it work in my everyday life i should be ok, But once i stop losing that interest by not going, the old Alcoholic mind way of thinking will creep back in and say its ok to just have one drink, when its not ok for me to have one!

                    They say it twice as bad if you relapse, because you have a belly full of Alcohol and a head full of AA....

                    Today i do have sanity in my life, peace of mind and i am so grateful to AA. And i know if i pick up that first drink the insanity will return plus my mental state of mind.

                    :l:h:l catch22 x
                    Long tiime lurker here... your observations are correct regarding how following AA principles were always intended to focus on the solution instead of the problem. Back in the earliest days and years of AA there was a very high success rate because of the intense focus on the "solution" rather than the problem.

                    AA was not started by two non-alcoholic doctors but by a failed stockbroker (due to alcoholism) and a proctologist (also a hopeless drunk who often operated hungover on unsuspecting patients behinds) who met by chance (divine?). Their meeting and eventual collaberative efforts at sharing their success was heavily influenced by their own experiences with detoxing in a hospital setting and applying principles learned through their own Christian experiences as well as the Oxford Group.

                    The AA program was originally completely Christ centered and had documented success rates of 75 to 90% with hopeless alcoholics but bears little resemblence to the modern AA we know today. The process that Bill and Bob and later Clarence used was a complete immersion in the program principles now known at the steps along with close fellowship with recovered (yes... recovered was used instead of recovering). Those seeking abstinence often lived in the homes of recovered alcoholics after detoxing in a hospital.

                    Theres nothing magical about meetings although they can be very helpful... it is working the steps themselves and truly seeking the help of God to achieve the miracle of being set free from alcoholism that works.

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Book Discussion - Big Book of AA

                      Hi Hopeworks,
                      I agree with all of your thoughts. I even find miracles in the rooms! Miracles as in strong bonds I've made with people that i never would have had, friendships, giving to others with our messages, receiving good messages - sharing. It's a huge part of my recovery that I think is an important component in my recovery.
                      Sometimes what you're most afraid of doing is the very thing that will set you free.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Book Discussion - Big Book of AA

                        Thank Hopework, for your in put. i got to say i add on a little hope everyday and it works.

                        DG The jay walking i had to read that a few times ( one of my favourites) it just shows you the madness of it all, i have not shared this before, but a few people in meetings shared this and i feel am not on my own i have had this thought as well of walking in the road while drinking. I am grateful that i dont have that kind of madness going on in side my little head. x
                        Formerly known as Teardrop:l
                        sober dry since 11th Jan '2010' relapse/slip on 23/7/13 working in progress ! Sober date 25/7/13 ( True learning has often followed an eclipse, a time of darkness, but with each cycle of my recovery, the light grows stronger and my vision is clearer. (AA)
                        my desire to avoid hitting bottom again was more powerful then my desire to drink !

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Book Discussion - Big Book of AA

                          There were times while I was drinking when I was doing something so inappropriate that I caught myself thinking: "Yes, this is true insanity." Often it was:
                          -when I was on my way to a liquor store in spite of PROMISING myself that I wouldn't drink today.
                          -when I was on my way to a liquor store in spite of having a huge hangover & a lot of guilt & shame.
                          -when I was pouring AL into a coffee cup.
                          -when I was trying to find a place to dispose of all the bottles I had stored up.
                          -when I was obsessing about getting my next drink while everyone else was enjoying themselves.
                          -etc.

                          When I think back, I shake my head at all the misery I caused myself. I only have to remember these things when I try to delude myself into thinking I can have "just one." I am not a normal drinker...wasn't for a long, long time & never will be.

                          Mary
                          Wisdom, Courage, Strength
                          October 3, 2012

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Book Discussion - Big Book of AA

                            I've been doing some extra-curricular AL-related reading. I just read about Marty Mann, the first woman AAer. When she read the manuscript for the BB, she threw it down disgustedly. Way to much God-stuff! She later went on to become THE first woman member of AA. Her mission was to spread the word to women alcoholics everywhere. In the old days, people believed that ordinary women just didn't get alcoholism...it only struck those very low on the social scale. Thank goodness, we now know that alcoholism is a disease that can strike women at every level. Mary
                            Wisdom, Courage, Strength
                            October 3, 2012

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