AF Daily ~ Saturday June 18

[Lavande]

Good morning Abbers!

Thought I'd start us up before I run out for the day
I'm helping my DIL with her yard sale today by watching EB & his baby brother.
This will be my exercise for today :H

Wishing everyone a wonderful AF Saturday!

Lav

[momof3]

AF Daily ~ Saturday June 18

Good Morning All,

The party at my house went well but it was a bit strange. It was an end-of-the year gathering/celebration for a group of folks that I do volunteer work with. Although my invite said the party was from 6 - 8 pm, I could not get two women out of the house until 9:45 pm. They also consumed every last drop of wine that I purchased. I am thinking that these women have drinking problems. I would not have known that from my other interactions with them which blows away any inkling of a stereotype I had left about what an alcoholic "looks like." They were carrying on even though I was cleaning up the house around them and giving my daughters kisses good night. It made me shudder to think how many times I was oblivious to my surroundings when I was drinking because the most important thing was to have another drink.

Papmom, I was very touched by your post yesterday and how you are choosing to remain positive through the challenges you are facing. You are awesome.

Jenny. I was in outpatient rehab years ago and although most of the people in the program were alcoholics, there was a fair share of people with marijuana, cocaine, and meth addictions. The policy was that you were not to use any substance while recoving from your addiction of choice with the theory behind it being that this could likely lead to relapse. I recall sering SPECT scan images of people's brains who are addicted to substance, alcohol, marijuana, etc and they look quite similar. I might add that they don't look very pretty when compared to the image of a normal brain. I think you are treading in risky water.

Busy day today. I have some cooking to do for another end-of-year party. This one is for my Girl Scout troop. There will be no alcohol served at this one.

M3

[Doggygirl]

AF Daily ~ Saturday June 18

Good morning Lav and fABbies yet to come! Lav, you always sound happy when you are about to spend time with your g-kids! I hope you and Kaz and anyone else who was toting 10 pounds worth in a tiny pail yesterday is starting today with an empty pail.

Det - good that you are shooting today. I know what you mean about spending time with serious minded people who are also sober. I reminds me of what "normal" is, and reminds me that my days of obsessing over alcohol were NOT normal.

P3 - I am so in awe of your wonderful outlook and action plan. Just taking responsibility and dealing with the facts of your situation and coming up with a game plan. I think back to times in my life when I just had a whiney baby pity party and got drunk. That never fixed anything. Only mature decision making and action can fix stuff. YOU GO GIRL!!! I know good things are in your future.

Jenny, I'm not a fan of the marajuana maintenance program. Like so many things related to alcohol, we think we are being creative with solutions, only to find that what we've done is what all kinds of people do. (i.e. the bottle hiding, sneaking, etc. that made me feel so clever). There are lots and lots of people around the tables of AA who talk about the marijuana maintenance program (yes, it even has a name! :H) and how it is not a good solution. The key to sobriety is figuring out how to live without mind altering substances. Many have tried and many have failed. So I guess it just depends on whether you think it will somehow, some way, work better for you than it has for others.

While MJ doesn't kill people like AL does, as Det pointed out, it can be life changing in a negative way just the same. It can also be addicting as was the case for Mr. Doggy. I watched him nearly ruin our business over it before we even had our business off the ground. His pot smoking was just as destructive in terms of our day to day lives as my drinking was. It also changed his personality, and not for the better. He was grumpy and paranoid all the time. It was also stressful having an illegal substance in the house. That can be life changing as a DUI can be life changing.

I know it is hard to learn how to face life without an escape in AL or other substances. I know it has been very worth it for me to be totally free of AL. And for Mr. Doggy to be totally free of MJ.

Speaking of alternative substances...I am so mad at myself for a sugar dive over the last couple of days. I'm determined to get that back on track as of right now.

Well, I'm going for a nice long walk. See you fABbies later! One thing is for sure...

DG

[momof3]

AF Daily ~ Saturday June 18

Hi DG,

We cross posted (see my post above that has similar comments about MJ).

Fyi...Here is a link to SPECT scan images of the brains of substance abusers.

The Amen Clinics

M3

[Doggygirl]

AF Daily ~ Saturday June 18

Hi M3. Wow - I could see myself in those ladies who stayed late. I too KNOW I was often oblivious to my surroundings and over stayed my welcome many a time. Drinking (alcoholically) is an extremely self centered activity. Took me awhile to see it that way, but that's how I see it today. All I ever cared about was me and my next drink.

Thanks for the brain scan link. WOW.

DG

[Determinator]

AF Daily ~ Saturday June 18

early morning check-in for garlic breath! off to the range with positive affirmations in place. just for the record I don't us MJ personally as I simply don't like it's effects. I do know a great many folks that have used it daily for decades that are wonderfully productive intelligent and emotionally stable people, so take the research with a grain of salt. I think there's been a pretty big witch-hunt on it in this country especially. at any rate these things effect all people differently. some people become hopelessly addicted to porn, or sex or violence, or darn near anything so the important thing is to 'know thyself'. I personally have chosen coffee to be my addiction of choice. yes it's still an addiction but I've weighed up the odds and found them acceptable. another thing to consider: if you are a gun owner such as myself and get caught in my home state with MJ it's a felony. not very handy! also I drive a LOT for work and it stays as a marker in your blood stream for many weeks so that's not helpful if you get in an accident regardless who,s fault it is.

zooom zooom blam blam

be well friends

[momof3]

AF Daily ~ Saturday June 18

Det,

The point of the discussion I believe was about smoking marijuana while in the early stages of abstinence from alcohol which I think is risky. Like alcohol, marijuana can be an addictive substance for some but not all folks. Marijuana never really "did anything for me" either but I certainly would not risk smoking it now because I would be concerned that it could lead to drinking again.

The brain images of those addicted (with an emphasis on addicted) to substances such as alcohol, marijuana, ect. are striking. I don't know if there are brain images of those with sex, shopping addictions, etc. It would be interesting to see because the the latter are behavior based addictions, not addictions as a result of the injestion/inhalation of potentially toxic substances.

I think the legalization of marijuana is a whole different topic of conversation BTW.

A big thanks to all of you who posted on yesterday's thread offerring support to me. I especially liked the image of all of you in the room during the party! I did not read them until after the party and it made me smile. You guys/gals are awesome and are always there in spirit. And, I think a party with all of you would be alot more fun. We would hang around together for 2 hours and would have a great time. Then we would go home because we've had enough!!!!!

M3

[LVT25]

AF Daily ~ Saturday June 18

Hello friends,

Jenny I have to agree with the others that it is not a good idea to take the edge off the cravings with pot or anything else for that matter. It is very common to addicts to trade addictions, and I think we have to force ourselves to learn how to cope and live our lives without these substances. Not picking on you--you asked. :l:l

Mom3--thanks for sharing that link. The main topic at the prevention coalition yesterday was a pharmacy professor who lost a 24 year old son to an accidental drug overdose 6 years ago. He was speaking on brain development/the affects of alcohol and drugs on the brain. Since the inception of these scans they have learned so much more about this! Whenever I go to these meetings, I get new positive reinforcement about my getting sober and staying that way. And I get real fired up about teaching parents and kids why they really should live above the influence! He only spoke for 2 hours, but I think I could have listened to him and ask questions all day! He also talked a little about caffeine--says it's unhealthy--but I am cutting down on my diet pop consumption, I'll think about cutting down on the coffee too. He has very strong feelings about the medical marijuana issue. I also have friends that depend on the stuff for various health issues (they live in a state where it is legal and they grow it) but his main issue seemed to be with smoking it. Still contains many carcinogens, etc. It has become a big business in Colorado with lots and lots of problems, including medical grade mj showing up in drug busts in our state--whodu thunk it?
Anyway, it's too bad you didn't see DG's comments about your party before hand. I was smiling about it all evening!

Since I spent most of the day in a meeting, I spent most of the evening working. I got home about 8:30. My son called me from his way home from the movies and they had a traffic check because there was a terrible car wreck. Right there. He said he saw 2 bodies. Why would they stop people there and then, I wonder what/who they were looking for. I hate he had to see it, but maybe it will make him think about what can happen. Anyway, I'm tired and I have so much to do today. I am going to make another pot of coffee and get busy. Have a great sober weekend everyone!:h

[AAthlete]

AF Daily ~ Saturday June 18

Morning all, and good topic today. I honestly think that it doesnt matter what the substance is - our minds are wired for addiction. For example, when I stopped drinking, I started smoking the occasional cigar. Fast forward to 3 years later, and I was up to 1-2 cigars a day, and realized that my frame of mind was exactly the same as it had been with booze... I was waking up and thinking about smoking one, and was at times planning my day around when the cigar shop would be open. Pretty scary stuff, and although not as difficult as alcohol it was still challenging to stop (my New Year's resolution).

Point is, no matter what type of mind-altering substance (legal or not), I stand a good chance of getting addicted to it, and always have to be on guard.

M3, so glad to hear that your party went well, and it's funny how we can now see things that were oblivious to us when drinking.

[jennyneric]

AF Daily ~ Saturday June 18

Good Morning, Thank you all so much on your comments, and the resulting discussion. It is just what I wanted. . .to weigh the pros and cons realistically and not just from my point of view. I am aware than an addictive person is just that no matter the substance and honestly I stopped smoking it in my late teens cause I really don't like it however it allowed me to not crave or obsess over AL last night for the first time in 5 weeks and the break was nice. The people that say it does not give you a hangover tho are wrong in my case, its nothing like an all night binder AL hangover but I am a little "fuzzy." Time will tell I suppose. I do feel like a cheat when I say that I am sober because I'm really not but I am AL free and for now that is good enough for me. Some on asked what I would say about it to my kids well my hubby has smoked since he was 14, he's native American and in that culture it is very accepted, so we have never lied about it or hid it from our kids and I don't believe it should be illegal and I think it is much better for you than AL and if I had to choose for them between cigs, AL, or MJ I would choose MJ point blank.

M3 and P3 I hope y'all are feeling great today.

Det good to see you hanging in there!

AAthlete glad to see you posting more

Lav have fun with the grand babies!

LVT25 maybe you could take a nap today?

Good morning Greenie when you check in!

DG wonder intelligent comments as always!

Hi to anyone I missed and all who come later!

[Kaslo]

AF Daily ~ Saturday June 18

Very quick hello and good day to all, sorry cant post more. Grand kids here, they are one and two years and quite a handful. i dont know how my daughter copes. Thanks for all your kind comments re feeling like a large pail of poo. Better today I think. Deter glad you are feeling better as well, blam blam indeed. Watch yer hearing, pal. Deafened my self with my shotgun, but thats another story, ha ha...M3 its interesting seeing others who obviously will overuse alcohol at what ever level its not pretty is it? I have much to say re switching additions, during my hip replacements and dealing with chronic pain, I switched from wine to oxycontin/ oxycodone, which was not much of a solution to put it mildly, and I too agree that marijuana as a treatment for addition to alcohol is not dealing with the problems, its adding to them IMHO. AA you must have been tuned to the addiction problem when you wake up thinking about the substance no matter what it is. LVT your son might carry that visual for a long time. Will think of you in my garden today. DG, you are a constant constant inspiration to me. Everyone have a great AF day.

kas

[Lavande]

AF Daily ~ Saturday June 18

Well, my DIL called for an early end to the yard sale due to the heat, humidity, the crying & whinning kids, my crying & whinning :H:H

Just kidding but it is a bit uncomfortable outside today!
I took some fresh eggs over & sold them at the yard sale - wht not??

Graduating from high school & going to college in 1971 such as I did - pot smoke was everywhere! You didn't even need to smoke it yourself ~ merely walk thru the parking lot on the way to your car & deep breathe
My spouse started his cop job in the summer of 1974 so he found himself at a crossroads. What did he do? He confiscated bag after bag from the kids around town & brought it home for very occasional personal use
I'm glad those days are long over. It made me freaking paranoid.

I think more rain might be on the way so I guess I go check on the garden's progress.

Have a great afternoon everyone!

[InChains]

AF Daily ~ Saturday June 18

hey everyone, well I am going to jump in on the opposite end to most of you and say that actually I found MJ enormously helpful in getting sober, probably had a serious session about once a week for the 45 days I was AF and I found it gave me a rest from all the negative things about giving up AL without having to actually have a drink, but then unlike most of you I have always enjoyed smoking pot and have been doing it probably once or twice a month socially for 2-3 years now. That's not to say I can't see the negative side of things - my brother was addicted to MJ and was horrible when he was smoking it, not himself at all, but there is a mighty big line between sporadic use and the way he was using it. It's also much less addictive than AL...

I say all that, but then of course I am responding to this from the point of view of somebody who relapsed after 45 days and spent the last 2 days incredibly stoned and drunk. Thought I'd get in first and just say whatever I say can probably be discounted if you take that into consideration... up to you whether you do xD

xIC

[Lavande]

AF Daily ~ Saturday June 18

No one will discount your comment IC!
You have every right to feel any way you feel.

We have all taken turns responding to Jenny's request for our thoughts & opinions on substituting pot for AL.

To each his own ~right?!

[papmom3]

AF Daily ~ Saturday June 18

very interesting discussion and I'm glad we're all able to express our points of view without any flaming whatsoever! Awesome!!

Had a great weighin at WW today-down 6 lbs!! Poverty is a GREAT weight loss tool. Unfortunately I probably undid all the good with the lunch I had at my sis's and then treating my neice and I to ice cream after she very nicely agreed to run some errands with me (none of which cost me a cent except in a bit of gas money but then there was the ice cream). What a nice 14 yo niece!! My sis, her DH and my oldest neph went into Boston for the Bruins parade. I watched all but the last 20 min on TV-looked very exciting!! I wasn't all that interested in being in a throng of 1M plus tho so happy to stay behind and be around so my niece could swim.

this morning after WW a freecycler came by and took all the ill-fated willow fencing off my hands. Yippee!! She was really nice and brought her standard Poodle with her. "Love" had a romp in the back yard while we chatted and and got the fencing together. I'm telling you, you meet the nicest people through freecycle sometimes!! She's part of a bell ringer group which will be performing in my area this christmas so i'll take my dad to see them.

It ended up being very sunny and VERY warm today so absolutely NO chores have been done in or out of the house. Oh well. I'll try to get some laundry done tonite. tomorrow will be mowing the tundra and then its some pool time at my sis's with a FD celebration after. I'm going to miss all this when I finally find a PT weekend job!! Oh, one of the errands was stopping at a local golf course for GCs for my dad and BIL (my sis paid). I saw the Beverage Cart riding around. THAT'S what I want to do :H!!